Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature
cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room
thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later,
the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the
past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand
from the room thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature
cycle on the main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature
reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for
3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so
in theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the
meantime, any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for
something not quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature cannot
be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room thermostat to
21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later, the temperature
reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the past hour). Looks
like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand from the room
thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature cycle on the
main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature reach 70
degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute
off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1 bedroome
flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the meantime,
any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for something not
quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

Have you now got Thermostatic Radiator valves - and these are turning off at
19 degrees?

"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature cannot
be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room thermostat to
21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later, the temperature
reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the past hour). Looks
like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand from the room
thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature cycle on the
main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature reach 70
degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute
off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1 bedroome
flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the meantime,
any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for something not
quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

Before you blame your boiler we need to know mo

Are all your radiators getting to the same temperature at the same time (are
some slow to heat up?). Is the domestic hot water satisfactory?. It could
be a case of the pump not working correctly - or the diverter valve. Try
letting the radiators go cold then fire it up and rush around checking that
they all heat up in round about the same time. It could be that the
installer hasn't balanced the system.

gogo wrote:
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature
cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room
thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later,
the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the
past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand
from the room thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature
cycle on the main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature
reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for
3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.

Its been bloody cold and windy actually the last few days.

The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the
meantime, any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for
something not quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature cannot
be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room thermostat to
21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later, the temperature
reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the past hour). Looks
like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand from the room
thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature cycle on the
main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature reach 70
degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute
off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1 bedroome
flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.

In that case I doubt you have 25kW of radiators so the minimum output of 8kW
or so should suffice. You have given a lot of detail but nothing about
the radiator TRV or lockshield settings. Look over the commissioning
paperwork the installer left and see if you can see anything that doesn't
make sense.

The temperature cycling doesn't look right but impossible to say from here
whether its a boiler or system problem.

Jim A

John wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature cannot
be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room thermostat to
21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later, the temperature
reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the past hour). Looks
like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand from the room
thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature cycle on the
main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature reach 70
degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute
off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1 bedroome
flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the meantime,
any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for something not
quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

Before you blame your boiler we need to know mo

Are all your radiators getting to the same temperature at the same time (are
some slow to heat up?).
as far as I'm aware yes
Is the domestic hot water satisfactory?.
yes, no problem.
It could
be a case of the pump not working correctly - or the diverter valve. Try
letting the radiators go cold then fire it up and rush around checking that
they all heat up in round about the same time. It could be that the
installer hasn't balanced the system.

OK, will try that.

Thanks

John wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature cannot
be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room thermostat to
21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later, the temperature
reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the past hour). Looks
like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand from the room
thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature cycle on the
main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature reach 70
degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute
off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1 bedroome
flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the meantime,
any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for something not
quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

Have you now got Thermostatic Radiator valves - and these are turning off at
19 degrees?


Yes, on all radiator but the one in the hall where the thermostat is.
The thermostatic valve in my living room where he temperature is also
about 19 degrees (although now, after 6h, it's slowy approaching 20) is
fully open. My bedroom radiator is off and kitchen and bathrom are set
to about 18 degrees.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
gogo wrote:
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on
all the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired
temperature cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and
the room thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5
hours later, the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5
degrees in the past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked
that the CH demand from the room thermostat is always on and I also
checked the temperature cycle on the main display: looks like boiler
switch on when Temperature reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90
degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and
I am worried that it would not cope in the winter.

Its been bloody cold and windy actually the last few days.

well, windy yes, but 7-8 degrees, not *that* cold..

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature cannot
be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room thermostat to
21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later, the temperature
reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the past hour). Looks
like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand from the room
thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature cycle on the
main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature reach 70
degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute
off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1 bedroome
flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.

In that case I doubt you have 25kW of radiators so the minimum output of 8kW
or so should suffice. You have given a lot of detail but nothing about
the radiator TRV or lockshield settings.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:02:43 +0000, gogo wrote:

snip

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.


Of course, as your hall heats up the thermostat will operate and shut
down your heating - whether your other rooms are warm or not. You point
out that there is no TRV on that radiator so, effectively, the setting of
the lockshield valve on there will control the heating of your whole
system. The new combi puts heat out faster than the old one, so maybe
your hall is heating much faster than it used to do.

IMHO your thermostat should be in a more central living area (with no TRV
on the radiator) and let the hall look after itself (with a TRV). After
all, you don't live in the hall, do you? ;-) The thermostat shouldn't be
near a radiator anyway.

Try closing the hall rad lockshield just a bit and see what happens. If
you are worried about shutting off the flow then turn another radiator's
TRV full up.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

"gogo" wrote in message
om...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature
cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room
thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later,
the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the
past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand
from the room thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature
cycle on the main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature
reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for
3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.

In that case I doubt you have 25kW of radiators so the minimum output of
8kW or so should suffice. You have given a lot of detail but nothing
about the radiator TRV or lockshield settings.

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.

what is the setting of the heating control knob on the boiler?

Jim A

"gogo" wrote in message
m...
John wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature
cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room
thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later,
the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the
past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand
from the room thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature
cycle on the main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature
reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for
3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the
meantime, any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for
something not quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe

Have you now got Thermostatic Radiator valves - and these are turning off
at 19 degrees?
Yes, on all radiator but the one in the hall where the thermostat is. The
thermostatic valve in my living room where he temperature is also about 19
degrees (although now, after 6h, it's slowy approaching 20) is fully open.
My bedroom radiator is off and kitchen and bathrom are set to about 18
degrees.

It appears that your thermostatic radiator valves are working perfectly -
and cutting off at 19 degrees - how can you expect it to get any warmer?

John wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
John wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature
cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room
thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later,
the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the
past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand
from the room thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature
cycle on the main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature
reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for
3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
Obviously, I'm going to call the intaller on monday, but in the
meantime, any ideas? I slightly worried that I've spend £2500 for
something not quite satisfactory!
Thanks
Philippe
Have you now got Thermostatic Radiator valves - and these are turning off
at 19 degrees?
Yes, on all radiator but the one in the hall where the thermostat is. The
thermostatic valve in my living room where he temperature is also about 19
degrees (although now, after 6h, it's slowy approaching 20) is fully open.
My bedroom radiator is off and kitchen and bathrom are set to about 18
degrees.

It appears that your thermostatic radiator valves are working perfectly -
and cutting off at 19 degrees - how can you expect it to get any warmer?


The thermostatic valve in my living room is open fully. I'm not sure I
understand what you mean? Surely it should be possible to reach a
temperature higher than 19 degrees with a valve fully open?

mick wrote:
On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:02:43 +0000, gogo wrote:

snip
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.


Of course, as your hall heats up the thermostat will operate and shut
down your heating - whether your other rooms are warm or not. You point
out that there is no TRV on that radiator so, effectively, the setting of
the lockshield valve on there will control the heating of your whole
system. The new combi puts heat out faster than the old one, so maybe
your hall is heating much faster than it used to do.

I understand what you are saying, but the temperature in my hall is 19
deg and the thermostat in my hall is set to 21, so the thermostat is
actually not shutting down my heating. It's been on all the time since
the temperature set on the thermostat has never been reached in the hall.

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
om...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on all
the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired temperature
cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and the room
thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5 hours later,
the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5 degrees in the
past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked that the CH demand
from the room thermostat is always on and I also checked the temperature
cycle on the main display: looks like boiler switch on when Temperature
reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90 degrees (about 1 minute on for
3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and I
am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so in
theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
In that case I doubt you have 25kW of radiators so the minimum output of
8kW or so should suffice. You have given a lot of detail but nothing
about the radiator TRV or lockshield settings.
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.

what is the setting of the heating control knob on the boiler?

Jim A


It's set to MAX.

"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
om...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on
all the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired
temperature cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and
the room thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5
hours later, the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5
degrees in the past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked
that the CH demand from the room thermostat is always on and I also
checked the temperature cycle on the main display: looks like boiler
switch on when Temperature reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90
degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and
I am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so
in theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
In that case I doubt you have 25kW of radiators so the minimum output
of 8kW or so should suffice. You have given a lot of detail but
nothing about the radiator TRV or lockshield settings.
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.

what is the setting of the heating control knob on the boiler?

Jim A


It's set to MAX.

OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
om...
Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
m...
Hello,
I've just replaced my old Glowworm Swiftflow 80 with a Worcester Bosh
Greenstar 27cdi. All seemed fine but today, I tried to switch it on
all the time and I am noe worried that somehow, the desired
temperature cannot be reached. I switched the CH to on (no timer) and
the room thermostat to 21 degrees. It's been on from 7.30 am and 5
hours later, the temperature reached 19.5 degrees (but only rised 0.5
degrees in the past hour). Looks like it cannot go higher. I checked
that the CH demand from the room thermostat is always on and I also
checked the temperature cycle on the main display: looks like boiler
switch on when Temperature reach 70 degrees and off when it reach 90
degrees (about 1 minute on for 3 minute off).
I checked that there is no air in my radiators.
Now, 19 degrees is enough for me, but it's relatively mild outside and
I am worried that it would not cope in the winter.
The old Swiftflow was 17.6 kW max CH output, the new one is 27kW, so
in theory, it should be a lot more efficient? I don't remember having
difficulties to reach 20 degrees with the old system? I am in a 1
bedroome flat, with double glazing and loft insulation.
In that case I doubt you have 25kW of radiators so the minimum output
of 8kW or so should suffice. You have given a lot of detail but
nothing about the radiator TRV or lockshield settings.
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I am technically savvy enough to
understand what you ask.... I have 5 radiator, all with thermostatic
valve, except the one in the hall near the thermostat.
what is the setting of the heating control knob on the boiler?

Jim A


It's set to MAX.

OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless sensor
right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.

"gogo" wrote in message
...

OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless sensor
right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.

Not sure either how useful that is. However, if the 70/90 degree readings
are what you think they are, that's a mean temperature of 80 deg. The
radiator would be HOT. Maybe only able to touch it for a second or two.
If that is not the case there is insufficient flow to the radiator. Could
be the lockshield not fully open, faulty TRV, gunged up radiator or faulty
pump. Still impossible to say from here. How hot does the boiler flow pipe
get? WARNING could be 90deg.

Jim A

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless sensor
right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.

Not sure either how useful that is. However, if the 70/90 degree readings
are what you think they are, that's a mean temperature of 80 deg. The
radiator would be HOT. Maybe only able to touch it for a second or two.
If that is not the case there is insufficient flow to the radiator. Could
be the lockshield not fully open, faulty TRV, gunged up radiator or faulty
pump. Still impossible to say from here. How hot does the boiler flow pipe
get? WARNING could be 90deg.

Jim A


well, it IS very hot, but cannot be more precise. Ok, I think I'll call
them on Monday to say something is not quite right. At least, it looks
like the new boler is working normally. Thanks again for your help.

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless sensor
right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.

Not sure either how useful that is. However, if the 70/90 degree readings
are what you think they are, that's a mean temperature of 80 deg. The
radiator would be HOT. Maybe only able to touch it for a second or two.
If that is not the case there is insufficient flow to the radiator. Could
be the lockshield not fully open, faulty TRV, gunged up radiator or faulty
pump. Still impossible to say from here. How hot does the boiler flow pipe
get? WARNING could be 90deg.

Jim A


Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be
sure. I will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature
measurements, but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe
thermometer. Not sur how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and
return flow is 68 deg. But will start again to be sure. In the meantime,
I am most intrigued by a pipe linking the CH flow and CH return pipes
with a valve in between. I didn't touch this and the valve is fully
open. Now, I don't understand the purpose of this, but does it not mean
that the cold water flowing back to the boiler is mixed with the hot
water coming from it, therefore lowering the output temperature?
I may a bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I
mean (easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened?
Thanks
Philippe

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:34:39 +0000, gogo wrote:

snip
Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be
sure. I will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature
measurements, but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe
thermometer. Not sur how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and
return flow is 68 deg. But will start again to be sure. In the meantime,
I am most intrigued by a pipe linking the CH flow and CH return pipes
with a valve in between. I didn't touch this and the valve is fully
open. Now, I don't understand the purpose of this, but does it not mean
that the cold water flowing back to the boiler is mixed with the hot
water coming from it, therefore lowering the output temperature? I may a
bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I mean
(easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened? Thanks


It's a radiator bypass valve. The idea is to make sure that there is
always somewhere for the water to flow, even with all radiators shut off
by TRVs (the pump has to pump the water somewhere!). If you have a
radiator or towel rail somewhere that is left at full or almost full flow
(and doesn't have a TRV or other automatic shut-off) then you can shut
this bypass valve off (or at least close it most of the way).

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.

"gogo" wrote in message
...
Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look but
is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be sure. I
will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature measurements,
but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe thermometer. Not sur
how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and return flow is 68 deg.
But will start again to be sure. In the meantime, I am most intrigued by a
pipe linking the CH flow and CH return pipes with a valve in between. I
didn't touch this and the valve is fully open. Now, I don't understand the
purpose of this, but does it not mean that the cold water flowing back to
the boiler is mixed with the hot water coming from it, therefore lowering
the output temperature?
I may a bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I mean
(easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened?

According to the manaufacturer's info an external by-pass is not needed on
this boiler (probably fitted internally) so just just close it. Yes that
could explain your symptoms.
Now you can turn the boiler temperature down to the minimum setting which
gives you enough heat.

Not impressed with your installer. I imagine he will say it was just a
boiler replacement but that's stretching the point. Did you pay for a
radiator flush BTW?

Jim A

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look but
is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be sure. I
will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature measurements,
but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe thermometer. Not sur
how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and return flow is 68 deg.
But will start again to be sure. In the meantime, I am most intrigued by a
pipe linking the CH flow and CH return pipes with a valve in between. I
didn't touch this and the valve is fully open. Now, I don't understand the
purpose of this, but does it not mean that the cold water flowing back to
the boiler is mixed with the hot water coming from it, therefore lowering
the output temperature?
I may a bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I mean
(easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened?

According to the manaufacturer's info an external by-pass is not needed on
this boiler (probably fitted internally) so just just close it. Yes that
could explain your symptoms.
Now you can turn the boiler temperature down to the minimum setting which
gives you enough heat.

Not impressed with your installer. I imagine he will say it was just a
boiler replacement but that's stretching the point. Did you pay for a
radiator flush BTW?

Jim A


Thanks for this (and also thanks to mick and me9 for additional info). I
noticed in the CDI technical info that is says "no bypass required" but
wasn't sure. Also, since I have a radiator without thermostatic valve,
it should be shut anyway (?).

Yes I paid for a power flush (£282) (it says also in the Worcester Bosh
document that it is required).

I asked for 3 quotes from people recommended to me. The most recommended
installer was about £500 more expensive and was offering the manufacter
2 years warranty, while this one has an agreement with Worcester Bosh to
offer 3 years. Also, the one I choose had a relatively detailed
description of the jobs to do and estimates for potential additional job
(like replacing the gas pipe, which wasn't needed after all), while the
others were pretty vague.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:34:39 +0000, gogo wrote:

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless
sensor right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.

Not sure either how useful that is. However, if the 70/90 degree
readings are what you think they are, that's a mean temperature of 80
deg. The radiator would be HOT. Maybe only able to touch it for a
second or two. If that is not the case there is insufficient flow to
the radiator. Could be the lockshield not fully open, faulty TRV,
gunged up radiator or faulty pump. Still impossible to say from here.
How hot does the boiler flow pipe get? WARNING could be 90deg.

Jim A


Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be
sure. I will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature
measurements, but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe
thermometer. Not sur how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and
return flow is 68 deg. But will start again to be sure. In the meantime,
I am most intrigued by a pipe linking the CH flow and CH return pipes
with a valve in between. I didn't touch this and the valve is fully
open. Now, I don't understand the purpose of this, but does it not mean
that the cold water flowing back to the boiler is mixed with the hot
water coming from it, therefore lowering the output temperature? I may a
bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I mean
(easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened? Thanks
Philippe

This valve is probably wrong.

1) The (combi) boiler may well not need this - the installer instructions
should say.

2) If it /does/ need it then it should be a pressure sensitive type such
as screwfix #67854, #34127 or #98894

3) If it's intended as a bypass then it needs to be nearly closed, (but
it should be as in (2) anyway).

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:49:16 +0000, gogo wrote:

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be
sure. I will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature
measurements, but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe
thermometer. Not sur how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and
return flow is 68 deg. But will start again to be sure. In the
meantime, I am most intrigued by a pipe linking the CH flow and CH
return pipes with a valve in between. I didn't touch this and the
valve is fully open. Now, I don't understand the purpose of this, but
does it not mean that the cold water flowing back to the boiler is
mixed with the hot water coming from it, therefore lowering the output
temperature?
I may a bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I
mean (easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened?

According to the manaufacturer's info an external by-pass is not needed
on this boiler (probably fitted internally) so just just close it. Yes
that could explain your symptoms.
Now you can turn the boiler temperature down to the minimum setting
which gives you enough heat.

Not impressed with your installer. I imagine he will say it was just a
boiler replacement but that's stretching the point. Did you pay for a
radiator flush BTW?

Jim A


Thanks for this (and also thanks to mick and me9 for additional info). I
noticed in the CDI technical info that is says "no bypass required" but
wasn't sure. Also, since I have a radiator without thermostatic valve,
it should be shut anyway (?).

Yes I paid for a power flush (£282) (it says also in the Worcester Bosh
document that it is required).

I asked for 3 quotes from people recommended to me. The most recommended
installer was about £500 more expensive and was offering the manufacter
2 years warranty, while this one has an agreement with Worcester Bosh to
offer 3 years. Also, the one I choose had a relatively detailed
description of the jobs to do and estimates for potential additional job
(like replacing the gas pipe, which wasn't needed after all), while the
others were pretty vague.

Now Jim has read the instructions (about not needing any sort of bypass)
I'd say the installer is functioning as an illiterate pillock.

IME the 'big companies' and 'con men' are the ones that tend to specify
lots of detail in the quotes. Recommendation is to be weighted more
highly tan new vans, snappy work clothes, detailed quotes and big
promises.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:49:16 +0000, gogo wrote:

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be
sure. I will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature
measurements, but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe
thermometer. Not sur how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and
return flow is 68 deg. But will start again to be sure. In the
meantime, I am most intrigued by a pipe linking the CH flow and CH
return pipes with a valve in between. I didn't touch this and the
valve is fully open. Now, I don't understand the purpose of this, but
does it not mean that the cold water flowing back to the boiler is
mixed with the hot water coming from it, therefore lowering the output
temperature?
I may a bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I
mean (easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened?
According to the manaufacturer's info an external by-pass is not needed
on this boiler (probably fitted internally) so just just close it. Yes
that could explain your symptoms.
Now you can turn the boiler temperature down to the minimum setting
which gives you enough heat.

Not impressed with your installer. I imagine he will say it was just a
boiler replacement but that's stretching the point. Did you pay for a
radiator flush BTW?

Jim A


Thanks for this (and also thanks to mick and me9 for additional info). I
noticed in the CDI technical info that is says "no bypass required" but
wasn't sure. Also, since I have a radiator without thermostatic valve,
it should be shut anyway (?).

Yes I paid for a power flush (£282) (it says also in the Worcester Bosh
document that it is required).

I asked for 3 quotes from people recommended to me. The most recommended
installer was about £500 more expensive and was offering the manufacter
2 years warranty, while this one has an agreement with Worcester Bosh to
offer 3 years. Also, the one I choose had a relatively detailed
description of the jobs to do and estimates for potential additional job
(like replacing the gas pipe, which wasn't needed after all), while the
others were pretty vague.

Now Jim has read the instructions (about not needing any sort of bypass)
I'd say the installer is functioning as an illiterate pillock.

IME the 'big companies' and 'con men' are the ones that tend to specify
lots of detail in the quotes. Recommendation is to be weighted more
highly tan new vans, snappy work clothes, detailed quotes and big
promises.


well, as I said, they are a "biggish" company but were also recommended.
That just show how difficult it is to choose some decent installer.

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:34:39 +0000, gogo wrote:

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless
sensor right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.
Not sure either how useful that is. However, if the 70/90 degree
readings are what you think they are, that's a mean temperature of 80
deg. The radiator would be HOT. Maybe only able to touch it for a
second or two. If that is not the case there is insufficient flow to
the radiator. Could be the lockshield not fully open, faulty TRV,
gunged up radiator or faulty pump. Still impossible to say from here.
How hot does the boiler flow pipe get? WARNING could be 90deg.

Jim A


Hello again,
I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal? I said I'll have a closer look to be
sure. I will get a IR thermometer which would ease the temperature
measurements, but in the mean time, I got one of these clip-on pipe
thermometer. Not sur how precise thse are... but CH flow is 72 deg and
return flow is 68 deg. But will start again to be sure. In the meantime,
I am most intrigued by a pipe linking the CH flow and CH return pipes
with a valve in between. I didn't touch this and the valve is fully
open. Now, I don't understand the purpose of this, but does it not mean
that the cold water flowing back to the boiler is mixed with the hot
water coming from it, therefore lowering the output temperature? I may a
bit out of my depth here, but here is a phtot showing what I mean
(easier like that).
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg
So, my question: should this valve be fully opened? Thanks
Philippe

This valve is probably wrong.

1) The (combi) boiler may well not need this - the installer instructions
should say.

2) If it /does/ need it then it should be a pressure sensitive type such
as screwfix #67854, #34127 or #98894

3) If it's intended as a bypass then it needs to be nearly closed, (but
it should be as in (2) anyway).

Thanks. I haven't paid yet and intend to challenge them on this and see
what they say.

Jim Alexander wrote:
"gogo" wrote in message
...
OK, that rules out a lower temp setting which is desireable with a
condensing boiler. How hot do the rads get?

Jim A


well, not sure how to test that properly, but putting a wireless sensor
right against the rad in my living room, it goes to 48 degrees.

Not sure either how useful that is. However, if the 70/90 degree readings
are what you think they are, that's a mean temperature of 80 deg. The
radiator would be HOT. Maybe only able to touch it for a second or two.
If that is not the case there is insufficient flow to the radiator. Could
be the lockshield not fully open, faulty TRV, gunged up radiator or faulty
pump. Still impossible to say from here. How hot does the boiler flow pipe
get? WARNING could be 90deg.

Jim A


Hello again,
I bought a IR thermometer and could do proper measurements. It appeared
that the balance was really off (all LSV were fully open everywhere,
obviously not checked by the installer). The first set of measurements
was (in the order along they heat up): flow/return/drop
rad1 82/58/24
rad2 86/65/21
rad3 64/48/16
rad4 63/48/15 (this is the living room one, most important)
rad5 78/61/17

Following a DIY FAQ, I start closing first the valves for the hottest. I
found that I really have to close them almost completely (prob about 1/4
turn open or even slightly less). Anyway, after a few round of
adjustments, I got:
rad1 58/45/13 (1/4 open)
rad2 59/49/10 (1/4 open)
rad3 60/47/13 (fully open)
rad4 58/46/12 (fully open)
rad5 64/50/14 (1/4 open)

Now, I guess in term of balance it's much better, but I don't understand
why closing the hottest radiator does not give more heat for the coldest
one (living room)? Since my original complaint was that the temperature
was not rising quick enough, it seems like in a way it was better before
(with at least some radiatiors very hot, rather than having them all
balanced but less hot).
Anyway, I'm learning! I will contact the installer about this possibly
non necessary bypass valve. I have to say I tried to switch it off
briefly and somehow, the boiler seems to start making a strange noise
(some sort of rattling)so, reopen it. I think I prefer to ask them first
to be sure, before switching it off..

Philippe

Update: tried to close this "bypass" valve half way down instead of
fully and result! All rads are now very hot ~ 75/55. I'll definitely
question them about this! Thanks again for your help

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...

I am slowly progressing. The installer said he could come have a look
but is pretty sure it's normal?
http://www.gogo.me.uk/pipes.jpg

I'd say the installer is functioning as an illiterate pillock.

IME the 'big companies' and 'con men' are the ones that tend to specify
lots of detail in the quotes. Recommendation is to be weighted more
highly tan new vans, snappy work clothes, detailed quotes and big
promises.


Sloppy installed ****ed pipe-work as in the picture above is also a good
sign of Pillock at work.





-