Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:
Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

I believe there are some epoxy based liquid applied membranes about -
I've seem them on various "oak floor" websites usually next to
adhesives - doubt it'll be cheap though and expect there's always a
chance it (damp) will find a way around it expecially if you already
getting pools of water.....

Could it be condensation from other work- plastering, paper stripping
etc?
could check by sealing a small pane of glass to the concrete
(silicone, gaffertape, gorilla glue) and keep checking - if it gets
condenstaion under the glass (on the floor side) then you have
penetrating damp through the slab, if not it's someat else......

hope it helps

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:
Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

I believe there are some epoxy based liquid applied membranes about -
I've seem them on various "oak floor" websites usually next to
adhesives - doubt it'll be cheap though and expect there's always a
chance it (damp) will find a way around it expecially if you already
getting pools of water.....

Could it be condensation from other work- plastering, paper stripping
etc?
could check by sealing a small pane of glass to the concrete
(silicone, gaffertape, gorilla glue) and keep checking - if it gets
condenstaion under the glass (on the floor side) then you have
penetrating damp through the slab, if not it's someat else......

hope it helps

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:
Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

I believe there are some epoxy based liquid applied membranes about -
I've seem them on various "oak floor" websites usually next to
adhesives - doubt it'll be cheap though and expect there's always a
chance it (damp) will find a way around it expecially if you already
getting pools of water.....

Could it be condensation from other work- plastering, paper stripping
etc?
could check by sealing a small pane of glass to the concrete
(silicone, gaffertape, gorilla glue) and keep checking - if it gets
condenstaion under the glass (on the floor side) then you have
penetrating damp through the slab, if not it's someat else......

hope it helps

jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:
Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

I believe there are some epoxy based liquid applied membranes about -
I've seem them on various "oak floor" websites usually next to
adhesives - doubt it'll be cheap though and expect there's always a
chance it (damp) will find a way around it expecially if you already
getting pools of water.....

Could it be condensation from other work- plastering, paper stripping
etc?
could check by sealing a small pane of glass to the concrete
(silicone, gaffertape, gorilla glue) and keep checking - if it gets
condenstaion under the glass (on the floor side) then you have
penetrating damp through the slab, if not it's someat else......

hope it helps

For a paint-on solution I'd use an SBR bonding agent. Feb do it
(Febond?), so it's available at most decent BMs. Although primarily
designed to mix into cement based screeds, it works well as a standalone
sealer. Not cheap, but it's the closest thing to a waterproofer that can
be applied to damp surfaces

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
...


For a paint-on solution I'd use an SBR bonding agent. Feb do it (Febond?),
so it's available at most decent BMs. Although primarily designed to mix
into cement based screeds, it works well as a standalone sealer. Not
cheap, but it's the closest thing to a waterproofer that can be applied to
damp surfaces

For an SBR slurry look at http://www.sovchem.co.uk/ and follow the "tanking"
link to Heydi system and K11. There is also a promo video from the home
page.

PeterK

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:
Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

Dear RD
It IS condenstation - putting a membrane on a suspect concrete floor
is the test for a failed dpc
Cure is as suggested - a chemical dpm on the surface prior to fixing
new floor
Suggest an application of Feb first
then (belt and braces) bituthene

use CCA (tanalith) battens
Chris

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:
Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

thinking further the next issue I can see is how are you going to fix
the battens after you have damproofed? could you forget them and just
float the floor (boards?) on top of the insulation?

Jim

On 7 Apr, 19:37, jim wrote:
On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:



Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

thinking further the next issue I can see is how are you going to fix
the battens after you have damproofed? could you forget them and just
float the floor (boards?) on top of the insulation?

Jim

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I'm looking into the Febond
product and also another called Stopgap F75 which is 2-part epoxy -
works out around £60 for 15sq/m. Jim - as you rightly point out, I
can't do this and then screw battens to the slab - so my plan is to
screw battens to the wall round the perimeter of the room, and screw
the ends of the floor battens to those - laying Kingspan between them
so there shouldn't be too much of an issue with stability. I'll
probably put standard dpm under the battens as well to reduce any
abrasion of the new surface.

R.

On 8 Apr, 14:47, Reuben_D wrote:
On 7 Apr, 19:37, jim wrote:



On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:

Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

thinking further the next issue I can see is how are you going to fix
the battens after you have damproofed? could you forget them and just
float the floor (boards?) on top of the insulation?

Jim

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I'm looking into the Febond
product and also another called Stopgap F75 which is 2-part epoxy -
works out around £60 for 15sq/m. Jim - as you rightly point out, I
can't do this and then screw battens to the slab - so my plan is to
screw battens to the wall round the perimeter of the room, and screw
the ends of the floor battens to those - laying Kingspan between them
so there shouldn't be too much of an issue with stability. I'll
probably put standard dpm under the battens as well to reduce any
abrasion of the new surface.

R.

Well give it a whirl but I'd still question the battens as at say 4m
long X 50mm only fixed at either end they aren't going to offer much
in the way of *vertical* restraint.. Horizontally, they'll presumably
be wedged in by kingspan so may be better, but I presume you want
battens to fix *down* onto to restrain the flooring and resist warp
etc??

What are you putting down ?

I would reconsider the possibility that the whole lot will be
vulnerable to movement (either seasonal or not), and/or *chatter*
against the concrete - when you have the housewarming party :)

hope it helps
Jim

On 9 Apr, 10:04, jim wrote:
On 8 Apr, 14:47, Reuben_D wrote:



On 7 Apr, 19:37, jim wrote:

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:

Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

thinking further the next issue I can see is how are you going to fix
the battens after you have damproofed? could you forget them and just
float the floor (boards?) on top of the insulation?

Jim

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I'm looking into the Febond
product and also another called Stopgap F75 which is 2-part epoxy -
works out around £60 for 15sq/m. Jim - as you rightly point out, I
can't do this and then screw battens to the slab - so my plan is to
screw battens to the wall round the perimeter of the room, and screw
the ends of the floor battens to those - laying Kingspan between them
so there shouldn't be too much of an issue with stability. I'll
probably put standard dpm under the battens as well to reduce any
abrasion of the new surface.

R.

Well give it a whirl but I'd still question the battens as at say 4m
long X 50mm only fixed at either end they aren't going to offer much
in the way of *vertical* restraint.. Horizontally, they'll presumably
be wedged in by kingspan so may be better, but I presume you want
battens to fix *down* onto to restrain the flooring and resist warp
etc??

What are you putting down ?

I would reconsider the possibility that the whole lot will be
vulnerable to movement (either seasonal or not), and/or *chatter*
against the concrete - when you have the housewarming party :)

hope it helps
Jim

I'll be putting down either boards or laminate. Can't really think of
a better option to secure the battens since I can't go through the dpm
- I'm open to ideas. The battens run across the room, so will be just
under 3m.

R.

On 9 Apr, 18:38, Reuben_D wrote:
On 9 Apr, 10:04, jim wrote:

On 8 Apr, 14:47, Reuben_D wrote:

On 7 Apr, 19:37, jim wrote:

On 5 Apr, 21:53, Reuben_D wrote:

Hi,
I'm renovating a room in my house which has a concrete slab floor. I'm
putting 50mm battens on it and 50mm Kingspan between - what I'm
finding though is that water is collecting under the insulation at
certain points - looks like damp is coming up from under - too much to
be condensation, plus I noticed dark patches before I started, but
wasn't sure if it was damp - now I know better. I think the sheeting
under it may be pierced, or missing in parts.
Can anyone suggest a method of dealing with this, short of digging it
up and starting again? Ideally I'd like to be able to paint something
on, or lay a membrane on top - I'm looking for something effective but
preferably not too expensive. I need to deal with about 12m/sq if I do
the whole floor.

Thanks,

R.

thinking further the next issue I can see is how are you going to fix
the battens after you have damproofed? could you forget them and just
float the floor (boards?) on top of the insulation?

Jim

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I'm looking into the Febond
product and also another called Stopgap F75 which is 2-part epoxy -
works out around £60 for 15sq/m. Jim - as you rightly point out, I
can't do this and then screw battens to the slab - so my plan is to
screw battens to the wall round the perimeter of the room, and screw
the ends of the floor battens to those - laying Kingspan between them
so there shouldn't be too much of an issue with stability. I'll
probably put standard dpm under the battens as well to reduce any
abrasion of the new surface.

R.

Well give it a whirl but I'd still question the battens as at say 4m
long X 50mm only fixed at either end they aren't going to offer much
in the way of *vertical* restraint.. Horizontally, they'll presumably
be wedged in by kingspan so may be better, but I presume you want
battens to fix *down* onto to restrain the flooring and resist warp
etc??

What are you putting down ?

I would reconsider the possibility that the whole lot will be
vulnerable to movement (either seasonal or not), and/or *chatter*
against the concrete - when you have the housewarming party :)

hope it helps

Jim

I'll be putting down either boards or laminate. Can't really think of
a better option to secure the battens since I can't go through the dpm
- I'm open to ideas. The battens run across the room, so will be just
under 3m.

R.

Hi
well you could easily float the laminate on the kingspan - i mean you
can walk on kingpan (in socks!) and as long as it's supported (by in
your case concrete) nothing will happen to it.

For *real* wood (not chipboard or engineered wood which can also float
quite happily) then not sure what to suggest altho I'm sure I've seen
ads for *real oak* etc that can be floated.....

cheers
Jim

On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Jim wrote :
Hi
well you could easily float the laminate on the kingspan - i mean you
can walk on kingpan (in socks!) and as long as it's supported (by in
your case concrete) nothing will happen to it.

For *real* wood (not chipboard or engineered wood which can also float
quite happily) then not sure what to suggest altho I'm sure I've seen
ads for *real oak* etc that can be floated.....

I would definitely go for the floating floor. My place has floating
floors (T&G chipboard panels glued together) on expanded polystyrene
which is a lot more flexible than Kingspan. If the laminate being used
is that flexible and there will not be height issues, put a floating
chipboard layer first, then the laminate (unfixed) on top of it

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk