A HISTORY LESSON

Railroad tracks.

This is fascinating......
Be sure to read the whole thing. Your understanding of the
final paragraphs
will depend on understanding the earlier part of the content.

The U.S. standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails)
is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used?
Because that's the way they built them in
England, and it was English expatriates who built the first US
railroads.

Why did the English build them like that?
Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who
built the pre-railway tramways in England, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did the English use that gauge ?
Because the people who built the
tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for
building road wagons, which used that same wheel spacing.

Why did the road wagons have that particularly odd wheel spacing?
Well..........
if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would
have broken on
some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that
was the
spacing of the ingrained wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?
Imperial Rome built the first
long distance roads in Europe and England for their legions.
The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads?
Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts,
which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their
wagon wheels.

Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all
alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States
standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the
original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.

Bureaucracies live forever.
So the next time you come across a Specification for some new
design and wonder "What horse's ass came up with THIS ?", you may be
exactly right........
Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to
accommodate
the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)

Now, the twist to the story............
When you see an American Space Shuttle sitting on its launch
pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main
fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made
by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to
make them
a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the
factory to the launch site.
The railroad line from the factory happens to run through an
old tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that old
tunnel.

The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the
railroad track,
as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So.......
A major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the
world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two
thousand years
ago by the width of an Italian horse's ass.

And you thought being a "horse's ass" wasn't important?
As you can now see, ancient horse's asses control almost
everything.

....and CURRENT "Horses Asses", like those in The White House
and in 10 Downing Street, are striving to control everything else !

Natural Philosopher wrote:

A HISTORY LESSON

Railroad tracks.

This is fascinating......
Be sure to read the whole thing. Your understanding of the final
paragraphs
will depend on understanding the earlier part of the content.

The U.S. standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails)
is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used?
Because that's the way they built them in
England, and it was English expatriates who built the first US
railroads.

Why did the English build them like that?
Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who
built the pre-railway tramways in England, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did the English use that gauge ?
Because the people who built the
tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for
building road wagons, which used that same wheel spacing.

Why did the road wagons have that particularly odd wheel spacing?
Well..........
if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would
have broken on
some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that
was the
spacing of the ingrained wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?
Imperial Rome built the first
long distance roads in Europe and England for their legions. The
roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads?
Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts,
which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their
wagon wheels.

Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all
alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States
standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the
original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.

Bureaucracies live forever.
So the next time you come across a Specification for some new
design and wonder "What horse's ass came up with THIS ?", you may be
exactly right........
Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to
accommodate
the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)

Now, the twist to the story............
When you see an American Space Shuttle sitting on its launch
pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main
fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made
by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make
them
a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the
factory to the launch site.
The railroad line from the factory happens to run through an old
tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that old tunnel.

The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the
railroad track,
as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So.......
A major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the
world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two
thousand years
ago by the width of an Italian horse's ass.

And you thought being a "horse's ass" wasn't important?
As you can now see, ancient horse's asses control almost
everything.

....and CURRENT "Horses Asses", like those in The White House
and in 10 Downing Street, are striving to control everything else !
Thanks, loved it!

On Mar 28, 2:26*pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
A HISTORY LESSON

snip horse ****

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

MBQ

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 2:26 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
A HISTORY LESSON

snip horse ****

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

MBQ

Forgot about oxen ... which makes, it could be said, a load of bullocks.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A HISTORY LESSON

Railroad tracks.

This is fascinating......
Be sure to read the whole thing. Your understanding of the final
paragraphs
will depend on understanding the earlier part of the content.

The U.S. standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails)
is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used?
Because that's the way they built them in
England, and it was English expatriates who built the first US
railroads.

Why did the English build them like that?
Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who
built the pre-railway tramways in England, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did the English use that gauge ?
Because the people who built the
tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for
building road wagons, which used that same wheel spacing.

Why did the road wagons have that particularly odd wheel spacing?
Well..........
if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would
have broken on
some of the old, long distance roads in England, because that
was the
spacing of the ingrained wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?
Imperial Rome built the first
long distance roads in Europe and England for their legions. The
roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads?
Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts,
which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their
wagon wheels.

Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all
alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States
standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the
original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.

Bureaucracies live forever.
So the next time you come across a Specification for some new
design and wonder "What horse's ass came up with THIS ?", you may be
exactly right........
Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to
accommodate
the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)

Now, the twist to the story............
When you see an American Space Shuttle sitting on its launch
pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main
fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made
by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make
them
a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the
factory to the launch site.
The railroad line from the factory happens to run through an old
tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that old tunnel.

The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the
railroad track,
as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So.......
A major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the
world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two
thousand years
ago by the width of an Italian horse's ass.

And you thought being a "horse's ass" wasn't important?
As you can now see, ancient horse's asses control almost
everything.

....and CURRENT "Horses Asses", like those in The White House
and in 10 Downing Street, are striving to control everything else !

[A very much potted version of what I first heard many decades ago.
Trust me, it is long enough.]

And when the Russians wanted a railway, they sent out across Europe to
find people with experience of building railways. Paddy heard the call
and trekked off to Moscow.

They started by placing a single rail. When they came to put the second
rail in place alongside, they asked Paddy where to put it. "Just there,
the length of my shovel away from the first rail." And so that is where
they placed the second rail.

Rather than carrying his faithful old shovel all the way to Moscow,
Paddy had acquired a new shovel in Moscow.

And so the Russian gauge of 1520 mm (4 ft 11 7/8 in) was born.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:59:19 UTC, Rod wrote:

And when the Russians wanted a railway, they sent out across Europe to
find people with experience of building railways. Paddy heard the call
and trekked off to Moscow.

They started by placing a single rail. When they came to put the second
rail in place alongside, they asked Paddy where to put it. "Just there,
the length of my shovel away from the first rail." And so that is where
they placed the second rail.

Rather than carrying his faithful old shovel all the way to Moscow,
Paddy had acquired a new shovel in Moscow.

And so the Russian gauge of 1520 mm (4 ft 11 7/8 in) was born.

Not to mention the (alleged) origin of the Russian word for 'station'.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

snip horse ****

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,
just like the computer and the jet engine.

--
Roger Chapman

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:28:15 GMT, Roger wrote:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,

It doesn't say that.

--
Cheers
Dave.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Now, the twist to the story............
When you see an American Space Shuttle sitting on its launch
pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main
fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made
by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to
make them
a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the
factory to the launch site.
The railroad line from the factory happens to run through an
old tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that old
tunnel.

The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the
railroad track,
as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So.......
A major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the
world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two
thousand years
ago by the width of an Italian horse's ass.

********. The decision to award the contract to Thiokol was pure
politics - the SRBs were originally designed to be transported by barge
in one piece.

So, horse's arses (note the correct spelling) of Roman and political
types were responsible for the Challenger disaster, for without Thiokol
being in the picture, there would have been no O-rings.
--

Dave

The message et
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,

It doesn't say that.

No, but it implies they took a crap British invention, improved it it to
such an extent that they could sell coals back to Newcastle.

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "

--
Roger Chapman

Man at B&Q wrote:

On Mar 28, 2:26 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A HISTORY LESSON


snip horse ****

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

That link refers to regular horses. We must have lots around here as
they are so regular that they drop horse **** all over the country lanes.

I was always brought up to assume the word regular meant frequent. As in
I go to the toilet and defecate regularly. What changed this?

Dave

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 2:26 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
A HISTORY LESSON

snip horse ****

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

MBQ

Forgot about oxen ... which makes, it could be said, a load of bullocks.



Interesting that Snopes fail completely to notice that in other parts of
the world a different gauge is used. Or that the GWR used 7' 1/2"
gauge. Or that there might just be a continued use of the Roman
trackway gauge in the Northumberland coalfields that had persisted for
the entire 1700 years until Stephenson came along.

Just for once, I think Snopes has it wrong.

Andy

On Mar 28, 11:20*pm, Roger wrote:
The message et
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,
It doesn't say that.

No, but it implies they took a crap British invention, improved it it to
such an extent that they could sell coals back to Newcastle.

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

MBQ

On 2008-03-31 14:55:47 +0100, "Man at B&Q" said:

On Mar 28, 11:20*pm, Roger wrote:

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

How can we borrow ideas from Europe when we are in Europe?

On 2008-03-31 21:46:01 +0100, "Dave Liquorice"
said:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:42:32 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

How can we borrow ideas from Europe when we are in Europe?

Days of the Empire dear boy. When we had real engineering expertise.

ah...

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:42:32 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

How can we borrow ideas from Europe when we are in Europe?

Days of the Empire dear boy. When we had real engineering expertise.

--
Cheers
Dave.

The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,
It doesn't say that.

No, but it implies they took a crap British invention, improved it it to
such an extent that they could sell coals back to Newcastle.

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

It is easy enough to make such claims but how about some solid detail.

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

While the rest of the world galloped ahead with a sensible choice of
loading gauge?

--
Roger Chapman

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 28, 11:20 pm, Roger wrote:
The message et
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp
Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,
It doesn't say that.
No, but it implies they took a crap British invention, improved it it to
such an extent that they could sell coals back to Newcastle.

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

MBQ

I seem to remmeber reading about this issue many years ago. The argument
was that it wasn't loading gauge that was the major problem because we
fairly rapidly adjusted our loading gauge to be very similar to much of
Europe. (Though we had some notorious problems such as some tunnels in
Kent.) More the platform issue.

Designing rolling stock that works well with both UK-style fully raised
platforms and European style "pavements", avoiding damage to platforms
and rolling stock as trains pass raised platforms, etc. is quite tricky.
Indeed, wasn't the raised platform a major reason for us to have
declined the option to run double-decker trains here?

I could well be wrong. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Apr 2, 8:45*am, Roger wrote:
The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp

Ah so now we know the truth. The modern railway is a Merkin invention,
It doesn't say that.

No, but it implies they took a crap British invention, improved it it to
such an extent that they could sell coals back to Newcastle.

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "
Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

It is easy enough to make such claims but how about some solid detail.

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

While the rest of the world galloped ahead with a sensible choice of
loading gauge?

Double decker coaches is but one example.

MBQ

The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "

Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.

It is easy enough to make such claims but how about some solid detail.

How about some examples of railway technology that the US sold to the UK.

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

While the rest of the world galloped ahead with a sensible choice of
loading gauge?

Double decker coaches is but one example.

Horses for courses. What makes sense on the Great Plains where tunnels
are not an issue doesn't make sense where tunnels are commonplace.

--
Roger Chapman

On Apr 2, 6:09*pm, Roger wrote:
The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "
Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.
It is easy enough to make such claims but how about some solid detail.

How about some examples of railway technology that the US sold to the UK.

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

While the rest of the world galloped ahead with a sensible choice of
loading gauge?
Double decker coaches is but one example.

Horses for courses. What makes sense on the Great Plains where tunnels

Not just the great plains. There are plenty examples in Europe.

are not an issue doesn't make sense where tunnels are commonplace.

The loading gauge is not constrained only by tunnels.

MBQ

The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:

"And once the Americans caught up, they began selling railroad
technology back to England ... "
Which is entirely true, just as we sold a lot to them, just as we
borrowed a lot of ideas from Europe that gave superior performance.
It is easy enough to make such claims but how about some solid detail.

How about some examples of railway technology that the US sold to the UK.

Well?

With Railways, as with most British inventions, we were not
nearly as
good as some believe in the execution. Our choice of loading gauge,
for example, has held us back for years.

While the rest of the world galloped ahead with a sensible choice of
loading gauge?
Double decker coaches is but one example.

Horses for courses. What makes sense on the Great Plains where tunnels

Not just the great plains. There are plenty examples in Europe.

are not an issue doesn't make sense where tunnels are commonplace.

The loading gauge is not constrained only by tunnels.

It is the cost of tunnelling through hard rock that matters though.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
The message

from "Man at B&Q" contains these words:


Double decker coaches is but one example.

Horses for courses. What makes sense on the Great Plains where tunnels
are not an issue doesn't make sense where tunnels are commonplace.


Indeed.

Double decker coaches are fine for half way across the USA. They are a
PITA on a local commuter service where the train has to stop longer to
allow everyone to climb the two staircases normally fitted, instead of
the half-a-dozen doors.

Andy