apparently not
http://tinyurl.com/gkrg

"Chris Oates" wrote in message
...

apparently not
http://tinyurl.com/gkrg



Good !!! It's about time more prosecutions were brought in for this type of
malicious behaviour.

Many people think they can do the job because the supply pipes don't leak
gas, but they really know nothing of the dangers of the flue gases that are
produced after the gas has been burned. The charge of Manslaughter holds a
life in prison sentence and these two deserve to get it.

I wonder if they'll plead insanity ? :-))


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:12:57 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Many people think they can do the job because the supply pipes don't leak
gas, but they really know nothing of the dangers of the flue gases that are
produced after the gas has been burned. The charge of Manslaughter holds a
life in prison sentence and these two deserve to get it.

I must admit that although I'm well able to do the necessary pipework
to connect up (and I've done this sort of job before no problem) I
wouldn't even think of taking on a job of this nature.

Some things are best left to the experts.

Andrew

Do you need a handyman service? Check out our
web site at http://www.handymac.co.uk

Andrew McKay wrote:
I must admit that although I'm well able to do the necessary pipework
to connect up (and I've done this sort of job before no problem) I
wouldn't even think of taking on a job of this nature.

Some things are best left to the experts.


I installed our RSF combi (simple swap, and I did get a gas safety cert
on it later), but I wouldn't dream of installing anything open or
passive flued.

I hate standard gas fires anyway, they make me feel ill even if they
have been properly fitted and serviced.
I certainly wouldn't have one installed here, whoever fitted it :-)

I was just wondering, are Gas fires statisically any more hazardous than
other open flued appliances?
Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

Lee

--
To reply use lee.blaver and NTL world com

"Lee Blaver" wrote in message
...
Andrew McKay wrote:
I must admit that although I'm well able to do the necessary pipework
to connect up (and I've done this sort of job before no problem) I
wouldn't even think of taking on a job of this nature.

Some things are best left to the experts.


I installed our RSF combi (simple swap, and I did get a gas safety cert
on it later), but I wouldn't dream of installing anything open or
passive flued.

I hate standard gas fires anyway, they make me feel ill even if they
have been properly fitted and serviced.
I certainly wouldn't have one installed here, whoever fitted it :-)

I was just wondering, are Gas fires statisically any more hazardous than
other open flued appliances?
Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

Lee


An open coal fire produces more water vapour than CO2, and is normally under
a six inch chimney that's wide open to the elements. If you look at the
modern coal fires with the piped chimney, the have doors on them to keep
blow downs to a minimum and seal them off from the rest of the room.

The modern coal fires are made to radiate heat from the body of the fire
itself but, a gas appliance must radiate its heat from an open flame to be
of any benefit in heating a room. I don't know if you've ever seen the gas
fires with the glass fronts, but we had one for many years in a rather large
lounge and it wasn't worth a sook (Scots slang for suck) in heating the
room, but it looked nice.

Any restriction in a flue from a gas appliance is a danger to anything
living in and around that appliance. In fact, only a few days ago in here,
I happened to mention a story of the maintenance man who fired up a heating
system after a long summer shutdown period. A mass of debris had gather in
the flue over the months, and when the system was fired up, it nearly killed
everyone in the place. When the maintenance guy was asked if he'd checked
the system as he should've, he replied "yes, but I thought the that the muck
in the flue pipe was a baffle that had been fitted to stop anything blowing
back up the pipe". He's learned his lesson well.


---
BigWallop

http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

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In article ,
Lee Blaver writes:
I installed our RSF combi (simple swap, and I did get a gas safety cert
on it later), but I wouldn't dream of installing anything open or
passive flued.

I hate standard gas fires anyway, they make me feel ill even if they
have been properly fitted and serviced.
I certainly wouldn't have one installed here, whoever fitted it :-)

I was just wondering, are Gas fires statisically any more hazardous than
other open flued appliances?

I think the open flued instant water heaters (e.g. Ascot) were
the worse. After all, they're going to be around 20-30kW, whereas
a gas fire is probably 6kW (input) max. Whilst a room might have
a good enough air supply for 6kW, it might not have 5 times the
air supply required for 30kW. Shutting yourself in a bathroom
with one of these and all the drafts sealed up to keep you warm
was pretty fast way to kill yourself, and it still happens.

Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

The CO should burn if there's enough oxygen.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

apparently not
http://tinyurl.com/gkrg

Good !!! It's about time more prosecutions were brought in for this type
of
malicious behaviour.

Many people think they can do the job because the supply pipes don't leak
gas, but they really know nothing of the dangers of the flue gases that
are
produced after the gas has been burned. The charge of Manslaughter holds
a
life in prison sentence and these two deserve to get it.

I wonder if they'll plead insanity ? :-))

It apears they were builders, or at least they were charging for the work.
If they were friends and doing it for nothing, and they were not
"competent", which in this case they were not, they still would be charged.
You can fit any gass appliance or pipework as long as you are "competent"
and don't charge for it.

If the deaths were not due to the installation (for e.g., a bird could have
dropped down the flue and blocked it) and the fitters were friends and they
were "competent", then they are in the clear.




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 05/06/2003

In article ,
Lee Blaver wrote:
I was just wondering, are Gas fires statisically any more hazardous than
other open flued appliances?
Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

I'd say an open coal or log fire wouldn't work too well without a decent
updraught from the chimney. But a gas fire probably would.

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

BigWallop wrote:

"Chris Oates" wrote in message
...

apparently not
http://tinyurl.com/gkrg



Good !!! It's about time more prosecutions were brought in for this type of
malicious behaviour.

Many people think they can do the job because the supply pipes don't leak
gas, but they really know nothing of the dangers of the flue gases that are
produced after the gas has been burned. The charge of Manslaughter holds a
life in prison sentence and these two deserve to get it.

I wonder if they'll plead insanity ? :-))

Precedents for the length of sentence would be a couple of years - sort
of on a level of causing death by dangerous driving.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Lee Blaver writes:
I installed our RSF combi (simple swap, and I did get a gas safety cert
on it later), but I wouldn't dream of installing anything open or
passive flued.

I hate standard gas fires anyway, they make me feel ill even if they
have been properly fitted and serviced.
I certainly wouldn't have one installed here, whoever fitted it :-)

I was just wondering, are Gas fires statisically any more hazardous than
other open flued appliances?

I think the open flued instant water heaters (e.g. Ascot) were
the worse. After all, they're going to be around 20-30kW, whereas
a gas fire is probably 6kW (input) max. Whilst a room might have
a good enough air supply for 6kW, it might not have 5 times the
air supply required for 30kW. Shutting yourself in a bathroom
with one of these and all the drafts sealed up to keep you warm
was pretty fast way to kill yourself, and it still happens.

Indeed there is reckoned to always be enough air to support 7kW.
Occasionally you will find a room where a chimney won't draw and then an
extra vent would have to be added.

You point about bathrooms highlight why open flued appliances are
forbidden in bathrooms.


Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

The CO should burn if there's enough oxygen.

The nominal rating of a coal fire is reckoned on 14kW.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Ed Sirett wrote:
snip

Indeed there is reckoned to always be enough air to support 7kW.
Occasionally you will find a room where a chimney won't draw and then an
extra vent would have to be added.

snip


Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

The CO should burn if there's enough oxygen.


The nominal rating of a coal fire is reckoned on 14kW.


If this is a rating of how much air a coal fire consumes,
how much useable heat does a coal fire contribute to a room?
Just curious :-)

Lee

--
To reply use lee.blaver and NTL world com

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:29:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



All open flued appliances should be banned, apart from hobs. Gas fires can
be room sealed by having flexible ducting up the flue. Not a technological
problem. There is no need to have an open flues gas boiler at all, as
alterative flued boilers are available.

I would ban all open flued motor vehicles also....

Lee Blaver wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:
snip

Indeed there is reckoned to always be enough air to support 7kW.
Occasionally you will find a room where a chimney won't draw and then an
extra vent would have to be added.

snip

Even coal/wood fires produce CO after all...

The CO should burn if there's enough oxygen.


The nominal rating of a coal fire is reckoned on 14kW.


If this is a rating of how much air a coal fire consumes,
how much useable heat does a coal fire contribute to a room?
Just curious :-)

Admittedly it a bit like defining the length of the proverbial piece of
string. This figure would be for working out the likely ventilation
needs for a room with both coal and gas open flued appliances: not a
situation one is likely to come across very often. 8-)

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"tarquinlinbin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:29:57 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



All open flued appliances should be banned, apart from hobs. Gas fires
can
be room sealed by having flexible ducting up the flue. Not a
technological
problem. There is no need to have an open flues gas boiler at all, as
alterative flued boilers are available.

I would ban all open flued motor vehicles also....

You have a point.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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In article ,
tarquinlinbin wrote:
All open flued appliances should be banned, apart from hobs. Gas fires
can be room sealed by having flexible ducting up the flue. Not a
technological problem. There is no need to have an open flues gas
boiler at all, as alterative flued boilers are available.

I would ban all open flued motor vehicles also....

Well, all reasonable steps have been taken to make sure petrol engines
don't produce poisonous fumes.

Your point being?

--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn