Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat from the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a brush and
oil started pouring out!

"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point
the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong
with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it
fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat from
the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a brush
and
oil started pouring out!


The starting behaviour you describe is typical of an induction motor where
the starting capacitor has failed. These motors rely on a phase lag between
the rotor and stator currents generating a restorative magnetic force that
provides the torque. This is always prsent (because of friction/load) when
the motor is running. When stationary it is not present and a capacitor is
added to introduce a starting phase lag. An easy confirmation, can you flick
the motor and start it in either direction? If yes, that would confirm the
diagnosis. If no then you have another motor stall problem, possibly
physical.

As to mending it, probably not worth it if it's all sealed in one case.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On 25 Mar, 15:53, "Stuart" wrote:
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat from the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a brush and
oil started pouring out!
Try doing a search in this group on saniflow+macerator .....

On Mar 25, 3:53*pm, "Stuart" wrote:
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat from the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a brush and
oil started pouring out!

If it's not mechanical see:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/
Saniflo_W0QQitemZ190208664126QQihZ009QQcategoryZ57 212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

cheers,
Pete.

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to
this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point
the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong
with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it
fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across
this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat from
the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a brush
and
oil started pouring out!


The starting behaviour you describe is typical of an induction motor where
the starting capacitor has failed. These motors rely on a phase lag
between
the rotor and stator currents generating a restorative magnetic force that
provides the torque. This is always prsent (because of friction/load) when
the motor is running. When stationary it is not present and a capacitor is
added to introduce a starting phase lag. An easy confirmation, can you
flick
the motor and start it in either direction? If yes, that would confirm the
diagnosis. If no then you have another motor stall problem, possibly
physical.

As to mending it, probably not worth it if it's all sealed in one case.


Thanks for the detailed answer

Could the problem have been caused by the motor being jammed in one
posistion (unable to turn) while the power is on ?

Stuart wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to
this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point
the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong
with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it
fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across
this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat from
the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a brush
and
oil started pouring out!

The starting behaviour you describe is typical of an induction motor where
the starting capacitor has failed. These motors rely on a phase lag
between
the rotor and stator currents generating a restorative magnetic force that
provides the torque. This is always prsent (because of friction/load) when
the motor is running. When stationary it is not present and a capacitor is
added to introduce a starting phase lag. An easy confirmation, can you
flick
the motor and start it in either direction? If yes, that would confirm the
diagnosis. If no then you have another motor stall problem, possibly
physical.

As to mending it, probably not worth it if it's all sealed in one case.


Thanks for the detailed answer

Could the problem have been caused by the motor being jammed in one
posistion (unable to turn) while the power is on ?


Possibly.

"Stuart" wrote in message
...

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to
this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point
the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong
with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it
fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across
this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat
from
the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a
brush
and
oil started pouring out!


The starting behaviour you describe is typical of an induction motor
where
the starting capacitor has failed. These motors rely on a phase lag
between
the rotor and stator currents generating a restorative magnetic force
that
provides the torque. This is always prsent (because of friction/load)
when
the motor is running. When stationary it is not present and a capacitor
is
added to introduce a starting phase lag. An easy confirmation, can you
flick
the motor and start it in either direction? If yes, that would confirm
the
diagnosis. If no then you have another motor stall problem, possibly
physical.

As to mending it, probably not worth it if it's all sealed in one case.


Thanks for the detailed answer

Could the problem have been caused by the motor being jammed in one
posistion (unable to turn) while the power is on ?


I guess indirectly, if the capacitor was a bit dodgy anyway, excess heat
build up from the motor being stalled may have done for it. Difficult to say
but the answer isn't "no" ! Older motors of this type sometimes had
externally mounted capacitors you could change or were (for example) driving
a grinding wheel, where a quick flick in the right direction meant you could
carry on using it (ignoring Health and Safety etc!). Yours doesn't sound
like you can avoid replacement unless you strip it down, find the capacitor
and change it - a new motor would probably be easier!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

Phil wrote:

Try doing a search in this group on saniflow+macerator .....

And then for the one about filling a canoe with foam. But make sure that
you have a box of Kleenex on standby.

Steve Firth wrote:
Phil wrote:

Try doing a search in this group on saniflow+macerator .....

And then for the one about filling a canoe with foam. But make sure
that you have a box of Kleenex on standby.

I know everyone loves to mock them but I recently freecycled our 10 year old
one which was still working fine. (Must admit I was a bit surprised to get
a taker for a second hand saniflow...).

Tim

On 2008-03-25 17:40:23 +0000, "Tim Downie"
said:

Steve Firth wrote:
Phil wrote:

Try doing a search in this group on saniflow+macerator .....

And then for the one about filling a canoe with foam. But make sure
that you have a box of Kleenex on standby.

I know everyone loves to mock them but I recently freecycled our 10 year old
one which was still working fine. (Must admit I was a bit surprised to get
a taker for a second hand saniflow...).

Tim

Just goes to show. Where there's mook there's brassss

Stuart formulated the question :
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it fixable?

It sounds like a capacitor start type motor and the capacitor is open
circuit or the centrifugal switch has failed.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 25 Mar, 17:20, "Bob Mannix" wrote:
"Stuart" wrote in message

...







"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...
"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator. When power is applied to
this
motor it just makes a sort of buzzing / humming noise, if at this point
the
rotor is given a little flick the motor bursts into life. What is wrong
with
this motor, what has probably caused this fault to occur, and is it
fixable?

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil, I have never come across
this
before, presumably it is to help with cooling, transfering the heat
from
the
armature to the casing, are all underwater motors built like this?, of
course I have now lost some of this as I thought I was accessing a
brush
and
oil started pouring out!

The starting behaviour you describe is typical of an induction motor
where
the starting capacitor has failed. These motors rely on a phase lag
between
the rotor and stator currents generating a restorative magnetic force
that
provides the torque. This is always prsent (because of friction/load)
when
the motor is running. When stationary it is not present and a capacitor
is
added to introduce a starting phase lag. An easy confirmation, can you
flick
the motor and start it in either direction? If yes, that would confirm
the
diagnosis. If no then you have another motor stall problem, possibly
physical.

As to mending it, probably not worth it if it's all sealed in one case.

Thanks for the detailed answer

Could the problem have been caused by the motor being jammed in one
posistion (unable to turn) while the power is on ?

I guess indirectly, if the capacitor was a bit dodgy anyway, excess heat
build up from the motor being stalled may have done for it. Difficult to say
but the answer isn't "no" ! Older motors of this type sometimes had
externally mounted capacitors you could change or were (for example) driving
a grinding wheel, where a quick flick in the right direction meant you could
carry on using it (ignoring Health and Safety etc!). Yours doesn't sound
like you can avoid replacement unless you strip it down, find the capacitor
and change it - a new motor would probably be easier!

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?
I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.

I have been told a new capacitor will be about £20 which sounds a lot
better than the £300 for a whole new unit!

So to sum up, at present the motor just makes a buzzing noise until it
is flicked (helped turn) then it starts up and runs as normal. (the
motor will run in which ever way it is spun)

So what do you reckon, buy a new capacitor ??

As to the oil i lost out of the motor casing, I was told just refil it
with 3:1 is that correct ?

Stuartsblog explained on 25/03/2008 :
I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?

Yes, bottom right hand corner with the blue printing.

I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.

They can fail without any outward sign. £20 from the manufacture,
probably translates to around £2 from another source - Note the details
of the capacitor from the blue printing and source an identical one
from the likes of Farnell/CPC/RS Components. The voltage rating and AC
rating is very important - most capacitors are designed for DC use.

There is no guarantee that replacement of the capacitor will fix the
problem, but for the cost it is worth a try.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 25 Mar, 20:56, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
Stuartsblog explained on 25/03/2008 :

I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?

Yes, bottom right hand corner with the blue printing.

I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.

They can fail without any outward sign. £20 from the manufacture,
probably translates to around £2 from another source - Note the details
of the capacitor from the blue printing and source an identical one
from the likes of Farnell/CPC/RS Components. The voltage rating and AC
rating is very important - most capacitors are designed for DC use.

There is no guarantee that replacement of the capacitor will fix the
problem, but for the cost it is worth a try.

--
Regards,
* * * * Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Hi Harry

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Thanks
Stuart

On 26 Mar, 08:29, Stuartsblog wrote:
On 25 Mar, 20:56, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:





Stuartsblog explained on 25/03/2008 :

I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?

Yes, bottom right hand corner with the blue printing.

I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.

They can fail without any outward sign. £20 from the manufacture,
probably translates to around £2 from another source - Note the details
of the capacitor from the blue printing and source an identical one
from the likes of Farnell/CPC/RS Components. The voltage rating and AC
rating is very important - most capacitors are designed for DC use.

There is no guarantee that replacement of the capacitor will fix the
problem, but for the cost it is worth a try.

--
Regards,
* * * * Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Hi Harry

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Thanks
Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:38:04 UTC, Phil
wrote:

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

What's the significance of the three different (400/450/500v) ratings?

CPC have a 15uF 450v one, with wire tails. Near enough!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:38:04 UTC, Phil
wrote:

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

What's the significance of the three different (400/450/500v) ratings?

CPC have a 15uF 450v one, with wire tails. Near enough!


Glad my initial diagnosis was probably correct. I would concur entirely with
Eager Bob's "near enough" !


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On 26 Mar, 08:45, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:38:04 UTC, Phil
wrote:

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg
Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

What's the significance of the three different (400/450/500v) ratings?


Temperature band (A/B/D in this case)

Phil wrote:
On 26 Mar, 08:29, Stuartsblog wrote:
On 25 Mar, 20:56, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:





Stuartsblog explained on 25/03/2008 :
I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?
Yes, bottom right hand corner with the blue printing.
I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.
They can fail without any outward sign. £20 from the manufacture,
probably translates to around £2 from another source - Note the details
of the capacitor from the blue printing and source an identical one
from the likes of Farnell/CPC/RS Components. The voltage rating and AC
rating is very important - most capacitors are designed for DC use.
There is no guarantee that replacement of the capacitor will fix the
problem, but for the cost it is worth a try.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
Hi Harry

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Thanks
Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

300v AC. 500V DC.

On 25 Mar, 15:53, "Stuart" wrote:
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator.

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil,

You hope.

Phil wrote:

Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

IMO it's almost certainly polypropylene (MKP), not polyester (MKT).
Pretty-well all AC-rated caps for motor start/run and power-factor
correction are polypropylene these days.

--
Andy

On Mar 26, 12:18*pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Thanks
Stuart- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.

300v AC. 500V DC.

And how do you work that out, oh wise one?

MBQ

On Mar 25, 5:24*pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Phil wrote:
Try doing a search in this group on saniflow+macerator .....

And then for the one about filling a canoe with foam. But make sure that
you have a box of Kleenex on standby.

Or coffee filters.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Mar 26, 12:18 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg
Thanks
Stuart- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Seems to be a 14 microfarad (+/- 5%) 500 VAC polyester capacitor.
300v AC. 500V DC.

And how do you work that out, oh wise one?

MBQ

No need for 500VAC. Its 500VDC to cope with 415V peak to peak voltage of
a 230v AC RMS supply.

Actually its more like 275V AC..

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Stuartsblog submitted this idea :
On 25 Mar, 20:56, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
Stuartsblog explained on 25/03/2008 :

I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?

Yes, bottom right hand corner with the blue printing.

I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.

They can fail without any outward sign. £20 from the manufacture,
probably translates to around £2 from another source - Note the details
of the capacitor from the blue printing and source an identical one
from the likes of Farnell/CPC/RS Components. The voltage rating and AC
rating is very important - most capacitors are designed for DC use.

There is no guarantee that replacement of the capacitor will fix the
problem, but for the cost it is worth a try.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Hi Harry

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Thanks
Stuart

I concur with what other have said...

14uF and rated 400v AC for temperature band A, with a tolerance of + or
- 5%. 13uF or 15uF would be fine.

NO. 400V DC is the rating, or around 250V AC. Most motot start caps are
quoted as AC rated..

On 2008-03-26 12:24:56 +0000, Andy Dingley said:

On 25 Mar, 15:53, "Stuart" wrote:
Electric motor out of a Saniflow Macerator.

Interestingly, the motor is filled with oil,

You hope.

Is this in the same sense as "night soil" as a euphemism?

On Mar 26, 8:29*am, Stuartsblog
wrote:
On 25 Mar, 20:56, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:



Stuartsblog explained on 25/03/2008 :

I have further dissembled it, see
http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/saniflow.jpg
is the capacitor the large round white thing ?

Yes, bottom right hand corner with the blue printing.

I have been told I may find a large hole burned in the side of it,
however it looks in perfect condition.

They can fail without any outward sign. £20 from the manufacture,
probably translates to around £2 from another source - Note the details
of the capacitor from the blue printing and source an identical one
from the likes of Farnell/CPC/RS Components. The voltage rating and AC
rating is very important - most capacitors are designed for DC use.

There is no guarantee that replacement of the capacitor will fix the
problem, but for the cost it is worth a try.

--
Regards,
* * * * Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Hi Harry

Thanks for the reply and suggestion, I am really struggling to find a
replacement capacitor, too many details and specifications, could you
point me in the right direction. I have photographed all the
specifications on the capacitor, can you tell me what is and what isnt
important

http://www.stuartstuart.fsnet.co.uk/misc/capacitor.jpg

Thanks
Stuart

http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?
from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=14uF

cheers,
Pete.