We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen diner
(42 sq m!). I'm interested in experiences with various lighting options.
Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but due
to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. You can get 240v
halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings? Halogens
get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything else
but low-energy bulbs. Does this have any implications for choosing the
lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? I've seen you
can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so that we can
vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner part etc..
- I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the existing house.
Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others (spots) start as
bright as a candle and meander their way through to acceptable brightness in
up to 10 minutes! I could not cope with the latter in a kitchen!

Experiences, advice and suggestions most welcome! Thanks.

Pete

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:23:25 +0000, Peter Boulton wrote:

We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen
diner (42 sq m!). I'm interested in experiences with various lighting
options. Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but
due to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. You can get
240v halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings?
Halogens get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything
else but low-energy bulbs. Does this have any implications for choosing
the lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? I've seen
you can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so
that we can vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner
part etc.. - I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the
existing house. Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others
(spots) start as bright as a candle and meander their way through to
acceptable brightness in up to 10 minutes! I could not cope with the
latter in a kitchen!



I would say that if you have room for 240v halogens then you should have
room for 24v halogens with transformers. The transformers can be
remarkably small now - and you don't need to have them directly next to
the lights anyway. The life of 24v halogens with a soft-start transformer
is *way* longer than 240v types. Depending on the transformer they can be
dimmable with a standard dimmer too.

My son has a couple of GU10 based high efficiency spot replacements. They
seem to reach full brightness in about 2-3mins. As you say though, the
light isn't as "theatrical"! They are also rather bulky and not
particularly nice-looking.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

"mick" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:23:25 +0000, Peter Boulton wrote:

We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen
diner (42 sq m!). I'm interested in experiences with various lighting
options. Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but
due to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. You can get
240v halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings?
Halogens get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything
else but low-energy bulbs. Does this have any implications for choosing
the lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? I've seen
you can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so
that we can vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner
part etc.. - I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the
existing house. Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others
(spots) start as bright as a candle and meander their way through to
acceptable brightness in up to 10 minutes! I could not cope with the
latter in a kitchen!



I would say that if you have room for 240v halogens then you should have
room for 24v halogens with transformers. The transformers can be
remarkably small now - and you don't need to have them directly next to
the lights anyway. The life of 24v halogens with a soft-start transformer
is *way* longer than 240v types. Depending on the transformer they can be
dimmable with a standard dimmer too.

My son has a couple of GU10 based high efficiency spot replacements. They
seem to reach full brightness in about 2-3mins. As you say though, the
light isn't as "theatrical"! They are also rather bulky and not
particularly nice-looking.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

Thanks Mick. The problem with the transformers is where to put them to get
access in case they fail. My builder is trying to steer me clear of them!
The info on lo-energy spots is v helpful - the `theatrical` light thing is
quite important.

So do we all need to stockpile non-lo-energy bulbs? The lo-energy ones still
don`t seem to deliver on all fronts.

Pete

"Peter Boulton" wrote in message
...

"mick" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:23:25 +0000, Peter Boulton wrote:

We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen
diner (42 sq m!). I'm interested in experiences with various lighting
options. Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but
due to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. You can get
240v halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings?
Halogens get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything
else but low-energy bulbs. Does this have any implications for choosing
the lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? I've seen
you can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so
that we can vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner
part etc.. - I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the
existing house. Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others
(spots) start as bright as a candle and meander their way through to
acceptable brightness in up to 10 minutes! I could not cope with the
latter in a kitchen!



I would say that if you have room for 240v halogens then you should have
room for 24v halogens with transformers. The transformers can be
remarkably small now - and you don't need to have them directly next to
the lights anyway. The life of 24v halogens with a soft-start transformer
is *way* longer than 240v types. Depending on the transformer they can be
dimmable with a standard dimmer too.

My son has a couple of GU10 based high efficiency spot replacements. They
seem to reach full brightness in about 2-3mins. As you say though, the
light isn't as "theatrical"! They are also rather bulky and not
particularly nice-looking.

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

Thanks Mick. The problem with the transformers is where to put them to get
access in case they fail. My builder is trying to steer me clear of them!
The info on lo-energy spots is v helpful - the `theatrical` light thing is
quite important.

So do we all need to stockpile non-lo-energy bulbs? The lo-energy ones
still don`t seem to deliver on all fronts.

I've just had some halogen spots put in by a spark when my loft was getting
a refit. I didn't realise they were 12V with a transformer until I went to
remove the unit in order to paint around it.

I couldn't believe the size of the transformer, it is tiny and you need one
with each light plus it is silent. http://tinyurl.com/2px8nt
The last time I put 12V halogens in a ceiling for my parents, the
transformer was the size and weight of a brick and buzzed like hell and I
was struggling for a suitable place to locate it.

Steven.

On Mar 13, 4:51*pm, "Peter Boulton" peter@data*no-
spam*perceptions.co.uk wrote:
"mick" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:23:25 +0000, Peter Boulton wrote:

We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen
diner (42 sq m!). *I'm interested in experiences with various lighting
options. Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but
due to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. *You can get
240v halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings?
Halogens get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything
else but low-energy bulbs. *Does this have any implications for choosing
the lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? *I've seen
you can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so
that we can vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner
part etc.. - I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the
existing house. Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others
(spots) start as bright as a candle and meander their way through to
acceptable brightness in up to 10 minutes! *I could not cope with the
latter in a kitchen!

I would say that if you have room for 240v halogens then you should have
room for 24v halogens with transformers. The transformers can be
remarkably small now - and you don't need to have them directly next to
the lights anyway. The life of 24v halogens with a soft-start transformer
is *way* longer than 240v types. Depending on the transformer they can be
dimmable with a standard dimmer too.

My son has a couple of GU10 based high efficiency spot replacements. They
seem to reach full brightness in about 2-3mins. As you say though, the
light isn't as "theatrical"! They are also rather bulky and not
particularly nice-looking.

--
Mick * * * * * * * * * * *(Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.info*http://mixpix.batcave.net

Thanks Mick. The problem with the transformers is where to put them to get
access in case they fail. *My builder is trying to steer me clear of them!
The info on lo-energy spots is v helpful - the `theatrical` light thing is
quite important.

So do we all need to stockpile non-lo-energy bulbs? The lo-energy ones still
don`t seem to deliver on all fronts.

Pete

Your builder is giving you bad advice. Stick to the 12V lights - the
transformers are tiny and fit in the hole behind the lamp. If ever you
need to replace a transformer, just pull on the cable and it will come
back out of the hole.

Steve

On Mar 13, 4:51 pm, "Peter Boulton" peter@data*no-
So do we all need to stockpile non-lo-energy bulbs? The lo-energy ones still
don`t seem to deliver on all fronts.


As far as I know the only bulbs being "phased out" are the normal
"GLS" 40-60-100W bulbs. I don't think there is any suggestion that
halogen spots etc are going to disappear.

Tim Mitchell

stevelup wrote:
On Mar 13, 4:51�pm, "Peter Boulton" peter@data*no-
spam*perceptions.co.uk wrote:
"mick" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:23:25 +0000, Peter Boulton wrote:

We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen
diner (42 sq m!). �I'm interested in experiences with various lighting
options. Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but
due to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. �You can get
240v halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings?
Halogens get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything
else but low-energy bulbs. �Does this have any implications for choosing
the lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? �I've seen
you can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so
that we can vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner
part etc.. - I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the
existing house. Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others
(spots) start as bright as a candle and meander their way through to
acceptable brightness in up to 10 minutes! �I could not cope with the
latter in a kitchen!

I would say that if you have room for 240v halogens then you should have
room for 24v halogens with transformers. The transformers can be
remarkably small now - and you don't need to have them directly next to
the lights anyway. The life of 24v halogens with a soft-start transformer
is *way* longer than 240v types. Depending on the transformer they can be
dimmable with a standard dimmer too.

My son has a couple of GU10 based high efficiency spot replacements. They
seem to reach full brightness in about 2-3mins. As you say though, the
light isn't as "theatrical"! They are also rather bulky and not
particularly nice-looking.

--
Mick � � � � � � � � � � �(Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web:http://www.nascom.info�http://mixpix.batcave.net

Thanks Mick. The problem with the transformers is where to put them to get
access in case they fail. �My builder is trying to steer me clear of them!
The info on lo-energy spots is v helpful - the `theatrical` light thing is
quite important.

So do we all need to stockpile non-lo-energy bulbs? The lo-energy ones still
don`t seem to deliver on all fronts.

Pete

Your builder is giving you bad advice. Stick to the 12V lights - the
transformers are tiny and fit in the hole behind the lamp. If ever you
need to replace a transformer, just pull on the cable and it will come
back out of the hole.

Steve

Builders are rarely lighting experts. A few of these articles will
answer your Qs and mo
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index....egory:Lighting


NT

On Mar 13, 12:23 pm, "Peter Boulton"
wrote:
We're having an extension built which will create a largish kitchen diner
(42 sq m!). I'm interested in experiences with various lighting options.
Specifically:

- I like the light which halogen spots throw out (more 'theatrical') but due
to the ceiling arrangement cannot have a transformer. You can get 240v
halogens these days - but are they OK / safe for use in ceilings? Halogens
get quite hot!
- If I understand correctly, it will soon be impossible to buy anything else
but low-energy bulbs. Does this have any implications for choosing the
lighting options?
- Any experiences with low energy halogen spot replacements? I've seen you
can even get dimmable ones these days, which would be ideal - so that we can
vary the brightness between the kitchen part and the diner part etc..
- I have a few low-energy lights of various sorts in the existing house.
Some seem to go bright pretty quickly, whereas others (spots) start as
bright as a candle and meander their way through to acceptable brightness in
up to 10 minutes! I could not cope with the latter in a kitchen!

Experiences, advice and suggestions most welcome! Thanks.

Pete

LV halogen as suggested, its 12V rather than 24V though.

Possibly consider light pipes http://www.tubzzz.com first one google
came up with.

Adam

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:38:52 -0700, Adam Aglionby wrote:

snip

LV halogen as suggested, its 12V rather than 24V though.



Good point!
Mine are, indeed, 12v. I have a couple of odd 24v 50W units too though
that take the "capsule" bulbs. They came with a *huge* 400VA (IIRC)
torroid in a case, with terminals & fuses to feed a load of such bulbs.
Well, they were being thrown out... :-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net