My trusty electrical screwdriver lit up (dimly) on the
switched live wire to our kitchen lights. So I checked it
with a multi meter and it shows 5 volts ac between live and
neutral when the light switch is in the off position.
How is that possible? Is this potentially dangerous? Do I
need to take any action? The kitchen light seems to work
without problem.
--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted.

On 11/03/2008 09:24, David in Normandy wrote:

My trusty electrical screwdriver

There is no such thing as a *trusty* neon-screwdriver

lit up (dimly) on the
switched live wire to our kitchen lights. So I checked it
with a multi meter and it shows 5 volts ac between live and
neutral when the light switch is in the off position.
How is that possible?

Most likely picking up an induced voltage from a parallel conductor,
digital multimeter has such a high impedance so will not drain the
charge, an analogue meter would probably show nothing.

Is this potentially dangerous?

No, there will be virtually zero current available.

Do I
need to take any action? The kitchen light seems to work
without problem.

If you're unlucky and you use CFLs you might get the occasional flicker
from then when turned off as they may occasionally manage to charge an
internal capacitor.

On Mar 11, 9:24*am, David in Normandy
wrote:
My trusty electrical screwdriver lit up (dimly) on the
switched live wire to our kitchen lights. So I checked it
with a multi meter and it shows 5 volts ac between live and
neutral when the light switch is in the off position.
How is that possible? Is this potentially dangerous? Do I
need to take any action? The kitchen light seems to work
without problem.
--
David in Normandy. * *
*To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
*subject line, or it will be automatically deleted.

There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you if
they get damp.

To answer your question though, the voltage you are seeing will almost
certainly be being induced into the cable where it runs alongside
other live cables and is nothing to worry about.

Is the voltage present with a load in place (the light bulb).

Steve

On 11 Mar, 09:40, stevelup wrote:

There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you if
they get damp.

Steve

Really? How can they kill? And how can they be sold if they are
sooooo dangerous?

Matt

On Mar 11, 9:53*am, wrote:
On 11 Mar, 09:40, stevelup wrote:

There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you if
they get damp.

Steve

Really? *How can they kill? *And how can they be sold if they are
sooooo dangerous?

Matt

1) There is no way to know if they are actually working properly. You
could 'test' a circuit, not have the neon illuminate and assume the
circuit is safe. Electrocution follows shortly afterwards. Although it
must be pointed out that this isn't a direct result of the tool,
rather from flawed diagnostic techniques.

2) Moisture. Most of the neon screwdrivers use either a single
resistor or a block of semi-conductive foam between the pad on the
back and the neon lamp. Lets say your screwdriver gets soaked right
through somehow and is full of water without you noticing it. The rest
is obvious.

They really are stupid devices and shouldn't be used - indeed,
shouldn't be sold...

On Mar 11, 9:53*am, wrote:
Really? *How can they kill? *And how can they be sold if they are
sooooo dangerous?

Matt

ps. your post was reeeeeeaaalllyy condescending...

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember stevelup
saying something like:

There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you if
they get damp.

People still buy them out of sheer handiness, but it's not a
recommendation. I've been using voltstiks for a couple of years and find
them better all round. A decent voltstik like the Fluke one is better
than some others, as it is fairly selective and needs to be close to a
wire or connnector, while some of the other ones light up within inches
of a live conductor, which is useless sometimes.
--

Dave

wrote:
On 11 Mar, 09:40, stevelup wrote:

There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you if
they get damp.

Steve

Really? How can they kill? And how can they be sold if they are
sooooo dangerous?

Matt

The annual electrocution death rate shows they arent particularly
dangerous, but theyre certainly not safe tools. Surely no grown up
thinks unsafe tools arent sold.


NT

On Mar 11, 1:02*pm, wrote:
wrote:
On 11 Mar, 09:40, stevelup wrote:
There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you if
they get damp.

Steve

Really? *How can they kill? *And how can they be sold if they are
sooooo dangerous?

Matt

The annual electrocution death rate shows they arent particularly
dangerous, but theyre certainly not safe tools. Surely no grown up
thinks unsafe tools arent sold.

NT

Indeed. Hammers are dangerous if swung at someone's head, yet it is
obvious that this is not an appropriate use of a hammer.

The difference with the neon tester screwdrivers is that they are
unsafe if you use them in the way they *are* intended to be used. It
is not at all obvious that they are unsafe which is why I do not
understand them being on sale in the first place.

Steve

On Mar 11, 9:39*am, Andy Burns wrote:
On 11/03/2008 09:24, David in Normandy wrote:

My trusty electrical screwdriver

There is no such thing as a *trusty* neon-screwdriver

lit up (dimly) on the
switched live wire to our kitchen lights. So I checked it
with a multi meter and it shows 5 volts ac between live and
neutral when the light switch is in the off position.
How is that possible?

Most likely picking up an induced voltage from a parallel conductor,
digital multimeter has such a high impedance so will not drain the
charge, an analogue meter would probably show nothing.

Is this potentially dangerous?

No, there will be virtually zero current available.

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

MBQ

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

On Mar 11, 2:02*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember stevelup
saying something like:

There is no such thing as a trusty electrical screwdriver. They are
the most dangerous tool ever invented... Capable of both false
negatives and false positives, *and* having the ability to kill you
if they get damp.

People still buy them out of sheer handiness, but it's not a
recommendation. I've been using voltstiks for a couple of years and
find them better all round. A decent voltstik like the Fluke one is
better than some others, as it is fairly selective and needs to be
close to a wire or connnector, while some of the other ones light up
within inches of a live conductor, which is useless sometimes.

Why do voltsticks light up when you wave them about quickly?

Or is my voltstick didgy?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

Why do voltsticks light up when you wave them about quickly?

Dunno.

Or is my voltstick didgy?

Has it got holes and can you play a tune on it?
--

Dave

The difference with the neon tester screwdrivers is that they are
unsafe if you use them in the way they *are* intended to be used. It
is not at all obvious that they are unsafe which is why I do not
understand them being on sale in the first place.

Steve


But as long as you test for a positive every single time you rely on a
negative they aren't that risky.

*We* all know to do that, of course. The people at risk are those who don't
know.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "The Medway Handyman"
saying something like:

Why do voltsticks light up when you wave them about quickly?

Dunno.

Or is my voltstick didgy?

Has it got holes and can you play a tune on it?

It do :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The message

from contains these words:


The annual electrocution death rate shows they arent particularly
dangerous, but theyre certainly not safe tools. Surely no grown up
thinks unsafe tools arent sold.

Surely the phrase "safe tools" is something of an oxymoron?

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

On Mar 13, 9:14*am, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

On Mar 13, 9:14*am, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q

I don't.

and use (broken) Google groups,

It's fine from here.

brainless... :~(

Takes on to know one.


One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Only if the load has a low enough impedance to allow the current to
flow. Since we're talking about hazard to humans, it's reasonable to
assume the load is a human body.

Explain how you will get a hazardous current to flow through a human
with a potential of 5v AC (or 1v and an elephant if you like).

Like I said, try googling ohms law you brainless fcukwit.

MBQ

"stevelup" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

On Mar 13, 2:55*pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:





"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

Which bit of ohms law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law do you
not understand? It's simple enough, after all.

You can't get the current to flow through a load without an adequate
voltage.

So, do tell us, just how much current can you get to flow through an
elephant with a potential difference of 1V? Is it fatal to the
elephant?

MBQ

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 2:55 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:





"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm
law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how
it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

snip

So why are you arguing against yourself then FFS! The point is, it
might not be an elephant, it might be a child having just climbed out
of the bath - sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop suggesting
otherwise.

":Jerry:" wrote in message
...

snip

sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop suggesting otherwise.

Oops, Sod all *volts* but many amps...

":Jerry:" wrote in message
...

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 2:55 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:





"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

snip

So why are you arguing against yourself then FFS! The point is, it might
not be an elephant, it might be a child having just climbed out of the
bath - sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop suggesting otherwise.
He's not FFS (again). Yes many amps will kill, we know that but sod all
volts = sod all amps, NOT MANY, unless you are a metal bar. Jeez! 5v isn't
going to affect anyone, wet or not.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Mar 13, 4:25*pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Man at B&Q" wrote in ...
On Mar 13, 2:55 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:





"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm
law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how
it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

snip

So why are you arguing against yourself then FFS!

You really are braindead aren't you.

Try reading the whole thread, from the beginning.

The issue was whether 5V AC was dangerous.

I pointed out that even with a low impedance source capable of
delivering many amps, there would be insufficient current flow
[through a human].

Someone came out with the age old ditty about volts and amps.

I pointed out that the current depends upon the voltage and the
impedance of the load.

You then joined in with (as usual) personal abuse and irrelevant data.

In the case of possible danger to a human, 5V AC is simply not enough
voltage to cause a dangerous current to flow.

In your example of 1V and an elephant, I doubt that 1V is sufficicnt
to cause a dangerous current to flow.

Telling us it's the current that kills, and implying that there is a
danger, is meaningless when there is no possibility of a current
capable of killing, due to the insufficent voltage.

I'm not, FFS.

The point is, it
might not be an elephant, it might be a child having just climbed out
of the bath - sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop suggesting
otherwise.

Bringing wet children into it makes no difference. 5V AC is still not
enough to make a fatal current flow.

Where did I say that amps will not kill? They do, but you need a
sufficiently large voltage to cause the current to flow through a
given load.

It's ohm's law, stupid.

MBQ

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message
...

":Jerry:" wrote in message
...

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 2:55 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:





"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply
100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm
law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google
groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not
how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

snip

So why are you arguing against yourself then FFS! The point is, it
might not be an elephant, it might be a child having just climbed
out of the bath - sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop
suggesting otherwise.
He's not FFS (again). Yes many amps will kill, we know that but sod
all volts = sod all amps, NOT MANY, unless you are a metal bar.
Jeez! 5v isn't going to affect anyone, wet or not.


WWHHHOOOSSSSHHH........

On Mar 13, 2:55*pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:



"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply 100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

Some very high quality quoting again there. I'd suggest you use Google
Groups - at least it behaves properly...

Just to clarify - the last line there (incorrectly indented and tagged
onto the bottom of my post) was posted by :Jerry-I've-Got-A-Broken-
Newsreader:

And to repeat what everyone else has said about ten times now - yes,
we are all fully capable of understanding that it is the current which
kills not the voltage.

What you have neglected to take into consideration is that with such
low voltages, there can only be incredibly low currents passing
through the relatively high resistance of an extremely large elephant.

On Mar 13, 5:47*pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message

...





":Jerry:" wrote in message
...

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 2:55 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

....
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply
100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm
law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google
groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not
how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

snip

So why are you arguing against yourself then FFS! The point is, it
might not be an elephant, it might be a child having just climbed
out of the bath - sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop
suggesting otherwise.
He's not FFS (again). Yes many amps will kill, we know that but sod
all volts = sod all amps, NOT MANY, unless you are a metal bar.
Jeez! 5v isn't going to affect anyone, wet or not.

WWHHHOOOSSSSHHH........

Hey - at least that bit was quoted properly...

"stevelup" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 5:47 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message

snip
He's not FFS (again). Yes many amps will kill, we know that but
sod
all volts = sod all amps, NOT MANY, unless you are a metal bar.
Jeez! 5v isn't going to affect anyone, wet or not.

WWHHHOOOSSSSHHH........

Hey - at least that bit was quoted properly...

Yes because he is using a proper nntp server unlike you.

"stevelup" wrote in message
...
snip

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

On 13/03/2008 14:13, Man at B&Q wrote:

Explain how you will get a hazardous current to flow through a human
with a potential of 5v AC

I've seen figures for arm-to-arm resistance as between 500 and 1000 ohms
with good contact, and 16mA as the lowest "can't let go" current for AC,
so with a better source of 5V than in the original scenario, it's only
about a factor of two out.

On 2008-03-12 13:25:02 +0000, Appin said:

The message

from contains these words:


The annual electrocution death rate shows they arent particularly
dangerous, but theyre certainly not safe tools. Surely no grown up
thinks unsafe tools arent sold.

Surely the phrase "safe tools" is something of an oxymoron?

Our own good Dr. Drivel is a fairly harmless tool....

On Mar 13, 7:38*pm, Owain wrote:
stevelup wrote:
What you have neglected to take into consideration is that with such
low voltages, there can only be incredibly low currents passing
through the relatively high resistance of an extremely large elephant.

What about a small elephant?

Is there a difference between African and Indian elephants?

What about the fifth elephant?

MBQ

On Mar 13, 5:07*pm, wrote:
On 13 Mar, *
* * *"Man at B&Q" wrote:

Where did I say that amps will not kill? They do, but you need a
sufficiently large voltage to cause the current to flow through a
given load.

I was nearly killed by 50 volts once, but that was because it knocked me of
me perch, but I managed to grab something on the way down.

Much lower wouldn't give a big enough tingle even for that.

Quite.

MBQ

On Mar 13, 5:47*pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"Bob Mannix" wrote in message

...







":Jerry:" wrote in message
...

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 2:55 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

....
On Mar 13, 9:14 am, ":Jerry:" wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in
...

quote
On Mar 11, 2:02 pm, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 11/03/2008 13:51, Man at B&Q wrote:

Even if it were a low impedance source, that could supply
100s
of
amps, there's insufficient voltage to be at all dangerous.

It's the volts that jolts, but the mill*s that kills.

* = iamp

If there aren't enough volts, there wont BE any mills. Try ohm
law.

MBQ
/quote

Might explain why you work at B&Q and use (broken) Google
groups,
brainless... :~(

One could have one volt but enough amps to kill an elephant.

Those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones.

1) Never seen a more bizarre way of quoting - and certainly not
how it
is normally done on usenet (broken Google ones or not!).

2) Could you explain exactly how one volt could possibly kill an
elephant at any amount of current.

It's not the volts that kill but the current (amps).

We all know that, FFS.

snip

So why are you arguing against yourself then FFS! The point is, it
might not be an elephant, it might be a child having just climbed
out of the bath - sod all amps but many amps will kill - stop
suggesting otherwise.
He's not FFS (again). Yes many amps will kill, we know that but sod
all volts = sod all amps, NOT MANY, unless you are a metal bar.
Jeez! 5v isn't going to affect anyone, wet or not.

WWHHHOOOSSSSHHH........

Is that the sound of an electrocuted elephant? Did it survive?

MBQ

On Mar 13, 7:40*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
On 13/03/2008 14:13, Man at B&Q wrote:

Explain how you will get a hazardous current to flow through a human
with a potential of 5v AC

I've seen figures for arm-to-arm resistance as between 500 and 1000 ohms

Without piercing the skin?

MBQ

:Jerry: wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message
...
snip

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html



People who use Outlook Express shouldn't throw stones. Your newsreader
*is* broken.

And you won't get a dangerous current at 5V.

With moistened digits I'm about 300K thumb-to-thumb. At 240V mains
that'd give a thoroughly lethal milliamp (ish). At 5V it'd give 16
microamps. I don't even feel it, I've had 12V off model trains enough
as a kid and felt nothing.

Andy

When i was a boy i'd lick the end of a 9volt battery with my tongue and get
a tingle!

I started a fire once running 12volts DC through a too thin wire,
the plastic round the wire melted and burnt poisonously,
it could probably be done with a 6 volt motorbike battery..

But i doubt if you could light a bicycle light bulb with the 5volt AC which
the original poster measured on his mains when turned off...

Something to do with Impedance,
but exactly what I dont know,
is it that electrons are like imps as they dance to AC/DC...

]]] original post was:
My trusty electrical screwdriver lit up (dimly) on the
switched live wire to our kitchen lights. So I checked it
with a multi meter and it shows 5 volts ac between live and
neutral when the light switch is in the off position.
How is that possible? Is this potentially dangerous? Do I
need to take any action? The kitchen light seems to work
without problem.
--
David in Normandy.


]]] Andy Burns said:
Most likely picking up an induced voltage from a parallel conductor,
digital multimeter has such a high impedance so will not drain the
charge, an analogue meter would probably show nothing.

On Mar 13, 7:31*pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:
"stevelup" wrote in message

...
On Mar 13, 5:47 pm, ":Jerry:" wrote:

"Bob Mannix" wrote in message

snip
He's not FFS (again). Yes many amps will kill, we know that but
sod
all volts = sod all amps, NOT MANY, unless you are a metal bar.
Jeez! 5v isn't going to affect anyone, wet or not.

WWHHHOOOSSSSHHH........

Hey - at least that bit was quoted properly...

Yes because he is using a proper nntp server unlike you.

Who's he? I replied to you!