Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

regards

wrote:
Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

Depends on how clear the contract was in specifying the brand etc. If
you phrased it as "white plastic - say for example xyz" then you don't
really have any comeback. If however you said "I want white plastic MK
logic sockets" and he fitted something else then it would only be fair
to have him pay to rectify.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2008-02-29 22:38:24 +0000, "
said:

Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

regards

Did you specify what you wanted up front or let him choose?

If he didn't supply what you specified (presumably you did so in
writing?) then he needs to replace them at his cost.

Sockets are not all the same, as you have discovered. There are MK
ones (and a very small number of other major quality brands) and there
is crap.

It's completely irrelevant as to what might be done for some old lady
under other circumstances.

You have to decide where your negotiating position is.

You can push him to deliver what you believe was agreed, let the matter
go because you like him or do something in between.

In article
,
wrote:
Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

If it's adding to an existing installation most would try and match the
existing. Unless so old no longer available. But there is a difference in
price between makes.

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

What make are they? I've never come across this sort of thing. They should
be to the appropriate BS so of usable quality. Only 'plugs' I find stick
are some wallwarts with plastic earth pins.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I'd certainly come round and check your story if I were that electrician.
And if the case replace them. But then I probably wouldn't have used them
in the first place. ;-)

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

I'm wondering why he's not interested in your problem - if only to avoid
it with later customers.

--
*No hand signals. Driver on Viagra*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

" wrote in message
...
Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

regards

Please name this crappy brand of socket.

Adam

On 29 Feb, 22:38, " wrote:

What if I had been some old lady who couldn't?

My elderly Dad recently mislaid the key to his garage roller shutter
switch, so he paid over £100 to have the chap come out and fit a new
one (the key re-appeared two days later).

The new switch is now labelled "Close" to open the door and "Open" to
close it. As the company is clearly happy to take a confused old man
for every penny they can, should I demand that they return and at
least give him some switch labelling that doesn't confuse him further?

In article 47c892cc@qaanaaq,
Andy Hall wrote:
Sockets are not all the same, as you have discovered. There are MK
ones (and a very small number of other major quality brands) and there
is crap.

The ones that get by far the most use here in terms of things being
plugged and unplugged, switched on and off, etc, are the ones above my
workbench in the workshop. All cheap surface mounted BG - which look
exactly like the old MK design. And none have given any trouble.

MK seemed to reduced their prices somewhat these days. When I did that
installation they were about 3 times the price of the BGs.

All sockets should be to the appropriate BS. Apart from looks I'd not
expect there to be that much difference.

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29 Feb, 23:26, "ARWadworth" wrote:

it.

regards

Please name this crappy brand of socket.

Adam

They are branded "HLM" on the back.

On 29 Feb, 23:18, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-02-29 22:38:24 +0000, "
said:



Did you specify what you wanted up front or let him choose?

If he didn't supply what you specified (presumably you did so in
writing?) then he needs to replace them at his cost.

Sockets are not all the same, as you have discovered. * There are MK
ones (and a very small number of other major quality brands) and there
is crap.

It's completely irrelevant as to what might be done for some old lady
under other circumstances.

You have to decide where your negotiating position is.

You can push him to deliver what you believe was agreed, let the matter
go because you like him or do something in between.

I didn't exactly *demand* a certain brand or put anything in writing,
but I did mention a brand and even named the supplier.

Anyway, regardless. Even if I didn't specify any brand shouldn't this
be beside the point? You would expect something you have installed to
function correctly, whatever it is. If you take your car in for a new
clutch pedal and the clutch the garage installed is extremely stiff
and hard by normal standards, IMO it would be wrong for them to charge
for labour to replace it or fix it.

" wrote in message
...
Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

Hard to answer your question as it really depends exactly on what was said.
For the benefit of others obviously next time you will seek a written spec
and avoid anyone who declines.

The technical answer is that ...

"13.8 The construction of socket-outlets shall be such
as to allow for easy withdrawal of the plug."

and then "easy" is defined ...

"It shall not be possible to reach a pull of 36 N
without the plug coming out of the socket-outlet."

In general terms high withdrawal force is a characteristic of BS 1363.

Jim A

On 1 Mar, 01:46, dave wrote:
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:42:49 -0800 (PST), Andy Dingley

wrote:
On 29 Feb, 22:38, " wrote:

What if I had been some old lady who couldn't?

My elderly Dad recently mislaid the key to his garage roller shutter
switch, so he paid over £100 to have the chap come out and fit a new
one (the key re-appeared two days later).

The new switch is now labelled "Close" to open the door and "Open" to
close it. As the company is clearly happy to take a confused old man
for every penny they can, should I demand that they return and at
least give him some switch labelling that doesn't confuse him further?

Well it could have been a genuine mistake - but they should have
checked of course. I don't really see that they are "clearly happy to
take a confused old man for every penny they can". People do make
mistakes - even simply mistakes. Again having said that, such things
are of course a serious no-joke issue esp. with the elderly. Try
asking them.

As to OP, how many sockets are involved? If it were me I'd probably
diy it and, as you are presumably capable of doing same AND wish to
remain on good terms with Mr Electron, do the same. It is annoying
though.

One does wonder why the OP is wanting to stay on good terms with 'Mr
Electron' as you call him, when he clearly is not customer-centric.
It's reasonable to assume from the details that the electrician in
question is a single trader and as such relies on recommendation for
further work, and I certainly wouldn't be passing this guy's name on.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

What make are they? I've never come across this sort of thing. They should
be to the appropriate BS so of usable quality. Only 'plugs' I find stick
are some wallwarts with plastic earth pins.

I've definitely experienced it in the past when using the bottom of the
range el cheapo sockets from the likes of Screwfix/Toolstation
(obviously BS items). Not on every socket, but on a fair proportion of
them to different degrees. Also complete electrical failure of one
socket within two-gang sockets, which has struck me as very odd!

David

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 09:59:30 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

What make are they? I've never come across this sort of thing. They should
be to the appropriate BS so of usable quality. Only 'plugs' I find stick
are some wallwarts with plastic earth pins.

I've definitely experienced it in the past when using the bottom of the
range el cheapo sockets from the likes of Screwfix/Toolstation
(obviously BS items). Not on every socket, but on a fair proportion of
them to different degrees. Also complete electrical failure of one
socket within two-gang sockets, which has struck me as very odd!

David

I've got one in my kitchen that needs a bit of force to remove the
plug and I'm sure that was a Screwfix socket as well

On 2008-03-01 00:27:09 +0000, "
said:

On 29 Feb, 23:18, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-02-29 22:38:24 +0000, "
said:



Did you specify what you wanted up front or let him choose?

If he didn't supply what you specified (presumably you did so in
writing?) then he needs to replace them at his cost.

Sockets are not all the same, as you have discovered. * There are MK
ones (and a very small number of other major quality brands) and there
is crap.

It's completely irrelevant as to what might be done for some old lady
under other circumstances.

You have to decide where your negotiating position is.

You can push him to deliver what you believe was agreed, let the matter
go because you like him or do something in between.

I didn't exactly *demand* a certain brand or put anything in writing,
but I did mention a brand and even named the supplier.

Anyway, regardless. Even if I didn't specify any brand shouldn't this
be beside the point? You would expect something you have installed to
function correctly, whatever it is. If you take your car in for a new
clutch pedal and the clutch the garage installed is extremely stiff
and hard by normal standards, IMO it would be wrong for them to charge
for labour to replace it or fix it.

You would indeed.

Given that they should be replaced anyway, I would be inclined to push
him to do that including supply and fit.

If the reality is that he quoted a price and then bought cheap junk to
improve margin, then really he ought to cover both costs.

Alternatively you could treat the supply aspect as a grey area since
this doesn't seem to have been agreed in writing and offer to cover the
difference between the junk product and what you want; and then insist
that he does the fitting for "free".

There really isn't a "right" and a "wrong" here. You have to decide
between being the degree of being nice and playing hardball and what
you feel is reasonable to spend if anything on your part. Since you
didn't really nail down the specific brand, then it would be difficult
in the final analysis to play complete hardball.

You could reasonably insist that he replaces the junk with something
that works and leave the choice to him. However, if you want something
better, then maybe that's the compromise - you pay for something better
- i.e. the difference.

On 01/03/2008 09:59 Lobster wrote:

Also complete electrical failure of one
socket within two-gang sockets

I've had that on a Philex from Screwfix. They replaced it without any
problems.

--
F

(Beware of spam trap - remove the negative)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
wrote:
Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

If it's adding to an existing installation most would try and match the
existing. Unless so old no longer available. But there is a difference in
price between makes.

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

What make are they? I've never come across this sort of thing. They should
be to the appropriate BS so of usable quality. Only 'plugs' I find stick
are some wallwarts with plastic earth pins.

I have a double socket in the hall that I can only place the plug half way
in and I have to give it a dunt to go all the way. So there are duds out
there!!

Steven.

"Steven Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
wrote:
Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

If it's adding to an existing installation most would try and match the
existing. Unless so old no longer available. But there is a difference in
price between makes.

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

What make are they? I've never come across this sort of thing. They
should
be to the appropriate BS so of usable quality. Only 'plugs' I find stick
are some wallwarts with plastic earth pins.

I have a double socket in the hall that I can only place the plug half way
in and I have to give it a dunt to go all the way. So there are duds out
there!!

who don't replace defective sockets.

JA

Jim Alexander wrote:
" wrote in message
...

Had a electrician do some work in our house, when asked what type of
sockets I required I said white plastic, and at one point I mentioned
a brand that I had used previously and wanted. Anyways, electrician
installs sockets which aren't of the mentioned brand but I wasn't too
fussed as white plastic is more or less the same isn't it?....

Apparently not, when I come to use the sockets, they are simply
horrible. It takes almost super human strength to insert plugs and
just as much to remove them. Terrible things they are. So they're no
good.

I've told the electrician and he's said he will supply replacements
free of charge if I fit them, but if I want him to fit them he will
have to charge me. Now, to me this seems a bit off. I can fit
themselves but that's not the point. What if I had been some old lady
who couldn't? Would she be charged to have them replaced? I didn't pay
the electrician to fit crappy hard to use sockets.

I actually like the electrician so would rather not have a row over
it.

Hard to answer your question as it really depends exactly on what was said.
For the benefit of others obviously next time you will seek a written spec
and avoid anyone who declines.

The technical answer is that ...

"13.8 The construction of socket-outlets shall be such
as to allow for easy withdrawal of the plug."

and then "easy" is defined ...

"It shall not be possible to reach a pull of 36 N
without the plug coming out of the socket-outlet."

In general terms high withdrawal force is a characteristic of BS 1363.

Jim A

'Super human strength' means I'd reject the goods as faulty. Your
bargaining position really depends on whether youve paid in full or
not. If you have, any pursual is going to cost you time and money,
so time to negotiate. If hes not paid, you can pay to get it fixed
and subtract the cost from what he gets paid.

But as has been said, playing hardball leaves a sour taste, so its
your call. I dont think I'd like being steamed though.


NT