I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.

I would - for the sake of a few seconds work why take the risk? I've
certainly seen varnished timber trashed by bleeding knots.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?

Before - and make sure it's transparent knotting fluid, as it often
isn't, and would otherwise show through the varnish and looks horrible
(as it does on my bannisters, courtesy of the previous owner. One day....)

David

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?

My first purchase from a timber yard (a very long time ago) was wood to
make some shelving. They supplied parana pine which is, substantially,
knot-free. A jolly effective answer to your problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucaria_angustifolia

(Environmental issues were not in vogue in those days...)

--
Rod

On 28 Feb, 07:36, Lobster wrote:
Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.

I would - for the sake of a few seconds work why take the risk? I've
certainly seen varnished timber trashed by bleeding knots.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?

Before - and make sure it's transparent knotting fluid, as it often
isn't, and would otherwise show through the varnish and looks horrible
(as it does on my bannisters, courtesy of the previous owner. One day....)

David

Interesting - I wonder whether temperature is a key component to
this. I replaced all the skirting and the facings in a hallway
recently - 5 doors and 10m length so there is a fair length of stained
and varnished pine and not one knot has bled. I never thought of
stopping as I've never ever had any problems with white/red pine - it
would have been a major task for that amount of wood. Temperature? -
as a hallway it is run quite cool, 16C. Oh, yes and there's French
pine shelving along the length too, and that's remained clean.

The only place I've ever had bleed is in a small area of douglas fir
that my kitchen units are made of and that's t&g panelling above the
stove - so is it the douglas fir or the temperature ?

I'm not saying, don't do it, but with all the timber facing that I've
got in this house and only the smallest area of trouble, I for one
will continue not bothering.

Rob

robgraham wrote:
On 28 Feb, 07:36, Lobster wrote:
Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.
I would - for the sake of a few seconds work why take the risk? I've
certainly seen varnished timber trashed by bleeding knots.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?
Before - and make sure it's transparent knotting fluid, as it often
isn't, and would otherwise show through the varnish and looks horrible
(as it does on my bannisters, courtesy of the previous owner. One day....)

David

Interesting - I wonder whether temperature is a key component to
this. I replaced all the skirting and the facings in a hallway
recently - 5 doors and 10m length so there is a fair length of stained
and varnished pine and not one knot has bled. I never thought of
stopping as I've never ever had any problems with white/red pine - it
would have been a major task for that amount of wood. Temperature? -
as a hallway it is run quite cool, 16C. Oh, yes and there's French
pine shelving along the length too, and that's remained clean.

The only place I've ever had bleed is in a small area of douglas fir
that my kitchen units are made of and that's t&g panelling above the
stove - so is it the douglas fir or the temperature ?

I'm not saying, don't do it, but with all the timber facing that I've
got in this house and only the smallest area of trouble, I for one
will continue not bothering.

Rob

Luck of the draw with softwood. IME one stick in a pile will bleed all
over the place, and the rest will be fine. Kilning can cause the resin
to gush out of the end grain, so heat makes a big difference.
Knotting is alcohol soluble (usually shellac) so clear French polish
would probably be the thing to look for. Pine resin will bleed through
most other finishes

Stuart Noble wrote:
SNIP
Luck of the draw with softwood. IME one stick in a pile will bleed all
over the place, and the rest will be fine. Kilning can cause the resin
to gush out of the end grain, so heat makes a big difference.
Knotting is alcohol soluble (usually shellac) so clear French polish
would probably be the thing to look for. Pine resin will bleed through
most other finishes

I've made a fair amount of furniture out of cheap pine in the past & it
never occurred to me to use knotting. I've varnished it, used Danish oil &
wax and not had any problems - maybe I was just lucky?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
SNIP
Luck of the draw with softwood. IME one stick in a pile will bleed all
over the place, and the rest will be fine. Kilning can cause the resin
to gush out of the end grain, so heat makes a big difference.
Knotting is alcohol soluble (usually shellac) so clear French polish
would probably be the thing to look for. Pine resin will bleed through
most other finishes

I've made a fair amount of furniture out of cheap pine in the past & it
never occurred to me to use knotting. I've varnished it, used Danish oil &
wax and not had any problems - maybe I was just lucky?


Varnish will usually stop it..it's paint that is the issue.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:
SNIP
Luck of the draw with softwood. IME one stick in a pile will bleed all
over the place, and the rest will be fine. Kilning can cause the resin
to gush out of the end grain, so heat makes a big difference.
Knotting is alcohol soluble (usually shellac) so clear French polish
would probably be the thing to look for. Pine resin will bleed through
most other finishes

I've made a fair amount of furniture out of cheap pine in the past &
it never occurred to me to use knotting. I've varnished it, used
Danish oil & wax and not had any problems - maybe I was just lucky?


Varnish will usually stop it..it's paint that is the issue.

AIUI it bleeds through any sealer that's soluble in white spirit, but
not those soluble in alcohol.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:43:13 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?

My first purchase from a timber yard (a very long time ago) was wood to
make some shelving. They supplied parana pine which is, substantially,
knot-free. A jolly effective answer to your problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucaria_angustifolia

(Environmental issues were not in vogue in those days...)

Thanks for all the advice. I guess sealing the knots is the prudent
course. On that subject if the knots are sealed before staining I
would expect the stain not to 'penetrate' the sealed area which may
prove to be tricky. Perhaps sealing after staining may be the best
course as I assume stain will not penetrate the knots anyway.

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:43:13 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
I'm just about to start making a set of shelves for my CD/DVD
colection. I'll be using pine and will finish it by staining and
varnish. The question is do I need to use 'knotting' to seal the
knots? I suspect not as the varnish/polyurethanne shopuld be
sufficient to prevent bleed through.

On the off chance I should seal the knots should I do this before or
after staining?
My first purchase from a timber yard (a very long time ago) was wood to
make some shelving. They supplied parana pine which is, substantially,
knot-free. A jolly effective answer to your problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Araucaria_angustifolia

(Environmental issues were not in vogue in those days...)

Thanks for all the advice. I guess sealing the knots is the prudent
course. On that subject if the knots are sealed before staining I
would expect the stain not to 'penetrate' the sealed area which may
prove to be tricky. Perhaps sealing after staining may be the best
course as I assume stain will not penetrate the knots anyway.

It's all pretty academic for a clear finish because the resin is the
same colour as the wood. As NP points out, it's when it bleeds through
white paint you have a problem.