Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

There are far too many factors individual to your building/chimney
(condition/quality of masonry and mortar, good design & build,
presence of timbers, thatch or other nearby fire risks) and your usage
of it (quality of logs, hot fires, attention to chimney sweeping, eye
open for potential problems) to give a definitive answer.

A liner has so many advantages (better warm up, better draw, less
sooting, lessened risk/consequences of chimney fires) that I would
consider skipping it a false economy. However needs must, if you
really can't afford it - it'll work - but be vigilant to fire risks.

On 18 Feb, 10:46, " wrote:
There are far too many factors individual to your building/chimney
(condition/quality of masonry and mortar, good design & build,
presence of timbers, thatch or other nearby fire risks) and your usage
of it (quality of logs, hot fires, attention to chimney sweeping, eye
open for potential problems) to give a definitive answer.

A liner has so many advantages (better warm up, better draw, less
sooting, lessened risk/consequences of chimney fires) that I would
consider skipping it a false economy. However needs must, if you
really can't afford it - it'll work - but be vigilant to fire risks.

thanks, I'm just a bit perplexed as to why the need for liners these
days, going back 10-15 years all houses round here were open fires,
most burned logs too (everyone I know anyway) and not a mention of a
chimeney liner, what is the difference of running a log burner
compared to an open fire?

Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:46, " wrote:
There are far too many factors individual to your building/chimney
(condition/quality of masonry and mortar, good design & build,
presence of timbers, thatch or other nearby fire risks) and your usage
of it (quality of logs, hot fires, attention to chimney sweeping, eye
open for potential problems) to give a definitive answer.

A liner has so many advantages (better warm up, better draw, less
sooting, lessened risk/consequences of chimney fires) that I would
consider skipping it a false economy. However needs must, if you
really can't afford it - it'll work - but be vigilant to fire risks.

thanks, I'm just a bit perplexed as to why the need for liners these
days, going back 10-15 years all houses round here were open fires,
most burned logs too (everyone I know anyway) and not a mention of a
chimeney liner, what is the difference of running a log burner
compared to an open fire?

Open fires draw in a lot of cool air to slow and cool the smoke: a stove
does not.

The difference is the flue temps.They are VERY high, and velocities low,
with a stove.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:46, " wrote:
There are far too many factors individual to your building/chimney
(condition/quality of masonry and mortar, good design & build,
presence of timbers, thatch or other nearby fire risks) and your usage
of it (quality of logs, hot fires, attention to chimney sweeping, eye
open for potential problems) to give a definitive answer.

A liner has so many advantages (better warm up, better draw, less
sooting, lessened risk/consequences of chimney fires) that I would
consider skipping it a false economy. However needs must, if you
really can't afford it - it'll work - but be vigilant to fire risks.

thanks, I'm just a bit perplexed as to why the need for liners these
days, going back 10-15 years all houses round here were open fires,
most burned logs too (everyone I know anyway) and not a mention of a
chimeney liner, what is the difference of running a log burner
compared to an open fire?

Open fires draw in a lot of cool air to slow and cool the smoke: a stove
does not.

The difference is the flue temps.They are VERY high, and velocities low,
with a stove.

I think you may have this the wrong way round.

A modern wood burning stove is designed to throw most of the heat into the
room and have a low flue temperature. It is much more efficient at heating
the room.

That is why you often need a liner - because the low flue tempreature
encourages condensation in the chimney and if the chimney is not already
lined (e.g. with a ceramic liner) then moisture and tars can condense out
and seep through the brickwork.

Open fires chuck a lot of heat up the chimney, and much less out into the
room. They keep the chimney warm and there is much less condensation so you
don't generally need a liner. The tars and moisture are carried out into the
atmosphere.

If a metal flue from a wood burning stove is red hot then you are obviously
losing a lot of heat up the chimney; this can be a good idea occasionally -
giving the fire a good blast to clear out the flue - but it is not the best
way to run a stove efficiently.

Get a qualified installer to check your chimney to see if you need a liner.

In the long run a liner will be a good investment.

HTH

Dave R

On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:
Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
*I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

*cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

This is not the definitive answer but I had a wood burning stove. When
I originally got quotes the company insisted that it needed lining all
the way up. I think that is probably the correct answer as far as
building regs go.

However, I got another company who were quite happy to fit me a stove
with just a short length of flue into the existing chimney. It worked
fine, though initially worried me that I might be corroding the
chimney. Given that it had been originally designed for a coal fire I
couldn't see it would do that much harm.

I had it for 15 years until we went smokeless, so I couldn't use that
model any more. I would think if you got an approved appliance in a
smokeless zone it would definitely need a proper lined chimney to
perform correctly.

If you decide to go straight up the chimney, you need to work out how
you will sweep it, so all the soot falls back into the flue or stove
and doesn't lodge in some inaccessible spot.

On 18 Feb, 10:54, andyv wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:

Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
*I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

*cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

This is not the definitive answer but I had a wood burning stove. When
I originally got quotes the company insisted that it needed lining all
the way up. I think that is probably the correct answer as far as
building regs go.

However, I got another company who were quite happy to fit me a stove
with just a short length of flue into the existing chimney. It worked
fine, though initially worried me that I might be corroding the
chimney. Given that it had been originally designed for a coal fire I
couldn't see it would do *that much harm.

I had it for 15 years until we went smokeless, so I couldn't use that
model any more. I would think if you got an approved appliance in a
smokeless zone it would definitely need a proper lined chimney to
perform correctly.

If you decide to go straight up the chimney, you need to work out how
you will sweep it, so all the soot falls back into the flue or stove
and doesn't lodge in some inaccessible spot.

Damn!! never thought of that!!! how the hell would I sweep the
chimeney? as I take it I'd need to seal around the flue where it
enters the chimeney with fire resistant board.

Ah well, save more and do it next year then!!

On 18 Feb, 11:12, Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:54, andyv wrote:





On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:

Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
*I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

*cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

This is not the definitive answer but I had a wood burning stove. When
I originally got quotes the company insisted that it needed lining all
the way up. I think that is probably the correct answer as far as
building regs go.

However, I got another company who were quite happy to fit me a stove
with just a short length of flue into the existing chimney. It worked
fine, though initially worried me that I might be corroding the
chimney. Given that it had been originally designed for a coal fire I
couldn't see it would do *that much harm.

I had it for 15 years until we went smokeless, so I couldn't use that
model any more. I would think if you got an approved appliance in a
smokeless zone it would definitely need a proper lined chimney to
perform correctly.

If you decide to go straight up the chimney, you need to work out how
you will sweep it, so all the soot falls back into the flue or stove
and doesn't lodge in some inaccessible spot.

Damn!! never thought of that!!! how the hell would I sweep the
chimeney? as I take it I'd need to seal around the flue where it
enters the chimeney with fire resistant board.

*Ah well, save more and do it next year then!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What you have is a removable panel in the short length of metal flue
which you can stick a brush up. The bottom end of the chimney is built
into a cone shape. Well that's the theory. I just had a flat plate but
with another removable panel in it. You stick your hand in and push
all the soot down the flue (avoiding depositing too much on your
living room floor).

As you can see this is not a perfect solution.

andyv wrote:

What you have is a removable panel in the short length of metal flue
which you can stick a brush up. The bottom end of the chimney is built
into a cone shape. Well that's the theory. I just had a flat plate but
with another removable panel in it. You stick your hand in and push
all the soot down the flue (avoiding depositing too much on your
living room floor).

As you can see this is not a perfect solution.

Don't chimney cleaners use vacuum cleaners rather than brushes
nowadays?

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

On 18 Feb, 12:12, Timothy Murphy wrote:
andyv wrote:
What you have is a removable panel in the short length of metal flue
which you can stick a brush up. The bottom end of the chimney is built
into a cone shape. Well that's the theory. I just had a flat plate but
with another removable panel in it. You stick your hand in and push
all the soot down the flue (avoiding depositing too much on your
living room floor).

As you can see this is not a perfect solution.

Don't chimney cleaners use vacuum cleaners rather than brushes
nowadays?

--
Timothy Murphy *
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland


We had a chimney sweep who ran a brush up to loosen the soot and then
sucked out what fell down with a vacuum cleaner. He used to use a
terrible deodorant to supposedly mask the smell of soot in the house.
It used to make it smell like a public lavatory for a day or so.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:12:39 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:

Don't chimney cleaners use vacuum cleaners rather than brushes
nowadays?

They normally tape a sheet with a tube in the middle over the opening
through which to pass the rods of the brush. A vacuum tube is sometimes
placed behind the sheet to take up the soot floating about in the air and
is used to pickup that which collects in the fire place.

Soot is terrible stuff for getting everywhere, I wouldn't contemplate
putting in a system that required the bottom of the flue to be open to the
room for sweeping/cleaning. Sweep the chimney 10 mins, cleaning room rest
of day...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In uk.d-i-y, Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:54, andyv wrote:
If you decide to go straight up the chimney, you need to work out how
you will sweep it, so all the soot falls back into the flue or stove
and doesn't lodge in some inaccessible spot.

Damn!! never thought of that!!! how the hell would I sweep the
chimeney? as I take it I'd need to seal around the flue where it
enters the chimeney with fire resistant board.

We had a soot door fitted to the outside wall, just above the board. Our
100-year-old flue is unlined and hasn't been a problem.

--
Mike Barnes

Staffbull wrote:
Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?
IIRC regulations will most likely insist that you fully line.

Unless the chimney is well lined already.

The flue temps are excessively high with wood stoves..Ive seen pipes go
dull red..so you would be somewhat foolish to rely on old brickwork and
mortar..

The economics of a woodburner depend critically on access to cheap
sources of combustible wood. Do NOT expect that buying in wood will be
cost effective.

On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:
Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
*I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

*cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

is this the type of liner required?

https://vault1.secured-url.com/chimn...iner_13. html

if it is its nowhere near the £1000 I was told!! I'd imagine the top
of the chimeney to be 10m from the firepalce, so £150 odd for the
liner and £50 for the top and bottom fitting

Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:
Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

is this the type of liner required?

https://vault1.secured-url.com/chimn...iner_13. html

if it is its nowhere near the £1000 I was told!! I'd imagine the top
of the chimeney to be 10m from the firepalce, so £150 odd for the
liner and £50 for the top and bottom fitting

yes and no. That is permitted for pre 1972? something like that - chimneys.

Its not the 'new fitment' type though, and I wouldn't recommend it.

You need double wall insulated stainless. About 1000 quid fitted by a
prop if any chimney repointing is needed. Part cost about 600 quid.

I am a bit picky with fire safety. I don't like to mess around. Set too
many chimneys on fire already.

Phone up BCO and ask. he may allow it.

On 18 Feb, 15:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:
Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
*I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

*cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

is this the type of liner required?

https://vault1.secured-url.com/chimn...age_125mm__5__...

if it is its nowhere near the £1000 I was told!! I'd imagine the top
of the chimeney to be 10m from the firepalce, so £150 odd for the
liner and £50 for the top and bottom fitting

yes and no. That is permitted for pre 1972? something like that - chimneys..

Its not the 'new fitment' type though, and I wouldn't recommend it.

You need double wall insulated stainless. About 1000 quid fitted by a
prop if any chimney repointing is needed. Part cost about 600 quid.

I am a bit picky with fire safety. I don't like to mess around. Set too
many chimneys on fire already.

Phone up BCO and ask. he may allow it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll do that, dont mind paying £200 odd for it!! house was built 1950,
so no probs there!!

On 18 Feb, 15:25, Staffbull wrote:
On 18 Feb, 10:34, Staffbull wrote:

Thinking of fitting a log burner after the ever increasing price of
oil.
*I have posted before on this but have had some conflicting advice,
some people have told me I'll require lining the chimeney all the way,
others say a small length of liner into the existing red brick
chimeney will be fine.

*cost is the key factor in me doing this, so hoping I dont have to
line the existing chimeney all the way, it was fine and in use until 6
years ago.

anyone have any definitive answer to this?

is this the type of liner required?

https://vault1.secured-url.com/chimn...age_125mm__5__...

if it is its nowhere near the £1000 I was told!! I'd imagine the top
of the chimeney to be 10m from the firepalce, so £150 odd for the
liner and £50 for the top and bottom fitting

This looks quite good, though when we went into it all those years ago
they also wanted to fill the space in between the flue and the
original chimney with vermiculite.

By the time the scaffolding has gone up and the extras added on £1000
is not unusual.

Any case you're lucky. I started toying with having another wood stove
in my new house. The stove would be about £800 but by the time they
put us a flue in, and we've not got anything at present other than a
precast flue for a gas fire, the bill was up to £3600. No wood burning
stove for us.