Our house was built in the early 70s and has a twin pipe system for rain
water & sewerage.

We've a problem with the system backing up periodically that can be cleared
by rodding with a rubber disk on a drain rod down a vent pipe that's
situated between an inspection chamber in the drive and the main sewer in
the road.

After rodding there is always some "water" visible down at the bottom of the
vent pipe. Would I be right in thinking that there's some sort of bend/trap
in the system at that point?

If there normally *isn't*, should I be able to rod through from the
inspection chamber right past this vent pipe position towards the road?

It's not a major problem but clearly something isn't quite right and if
there's anything I can do with drain rods rather than digging 6' down
through the driveway I'd be interested to hear.

Tim

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:

Our house was built in the early 70s and has a twin pipe system for
rain water & sewerage.

We've a problem with the system backing up periodically that can be
cleared by rodding with a rubber disk on a drain rod down a vent pipe
that's situated between an inspection chamber in the drive and the
main sewer in the road.

After rodding there is always some "water" visible down at the bottom
of the vent pipe. Would I be right in thinking that there's some
sort of bend/trap in the system at that point?

If there normally *isn't*, should I be able to rod through from the
inspection chamber right past this vent pipe position towards the
road?
It's not a major problem but clearly something isn't quite right and
if there's anything I can do with drain rods rather than digging 6'
down through the driveway I'd be interested to hear.

Tim

There should be a U-bend where the vent pipe joins the sewer, so you won't
be able to get your rods *into* the sewer from the vent pipe.

It's best to rod from the first chamber which isn't full, back upstream
towards one which is. You can then loosen the blockage - which will be
washed downstream and away when you pull the rods out.

If it keeps happening, you need to get a CCTV survey done to determine
whether the pipe is actually broken and misaligned, or maybe blocked with
tree roots. Quite a lot of repairs can be done by remote control without
having to dig.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

There should be a U-bend where the vent pipe joins the sewer, so you
won't be able to get your rods *into* the sewer from the vent pipe.

It's best to rod from the first chamber which isn't full, back
upstream towards one which is.

Makes no sense with our system. The blockage is clearly distal to the
chamber closest to the road. No point in rodding back up a clear system.
There is no "chamber" at the vent pipe, just a small grate in the driveway
with a 4" pipe beneath it. I can "plunge" this pipe vertically up and down
but the rods don't progress in either direction.

You can then loosen the blockage -
which will be washed downstream and away when you pull the rods out.

BTDTGTTS. ;-)


If it keeps happening, you need to get a CCTV survey done to determine
whether the pipe is actually broken and misaligned, or maybe blocked
with tree roots. Quite a lot of repairs can be done by remote control
without having to dig.

I was just really wondering whether I should be able to rod through to the
street sewer. From what you've siad, it seems not so I'll just carry on as
I am at present.

Cheers.

Tim

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,

There should be a U-bend where the vent pipe joins the sewer, so you
won't be able to get your rods *into* the sewer from the vent pipe.

It's best to rod from the first chamber which isn't full, back
upstream towards one which is.

Makes no sense with our system. The blockage is clearly distal to the
chamber closest to the road. No point in rodding back up a clear
system. There is no "chamber" at the vent pipe, just a small grate in
the driveway with a 4" pipe beneath it. I can "plunge" this pipe
vertically up and down but the rods don't progress in either
direction.
You can then loosen the blockage -
which will be washed downstream and away when you pull the rods out.

BTDTGTTS. ;-)


If it keeps happening, you need to get a CCTV survey done to
determine whether the pipe is actually broken and misaligned, or
maybe blocked with tree roots. Quite a lot of repairs can be done by
remote control without having to dig.

I was just really wondering whether I should be able to rod through
to the street sewer. From what you've siad, it seems not so I'll
just carry on as I am at present.

Cheers.

Tim



--
Cheers,
Roger
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PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:


Makes no sense with our system. The blockage is clearly distal to the
chamber closest to the road. No point in rodding back up a clear
system. There is no "chamber" at the vent pipe, just a small grate in
the driveway with a 4" pipe beneath it. I can "plunge" this pipe
vertically up and down but the rods don't progress in either
direction.
[Try again - I hit send before I intended to, the last time]

There's *every* point in rodding up a clear system - in order to reach the
blockage and dislodge it - but probably with a twirly fitting rather than a
plunger on the end of the rods. If you start from a full chamber, it can be
extremely difficult to find the outlet to get the rods started. It's easy
from a clear one. Assuming there's a chamber where your sewer joins the
sewer under the road, start from the road end.

I have a public sewer running under my garden which has got blocked many
times in the 30-odd years I have lived here. When Severn Trent come to clear
it they invariably rod - or more often jet - from a clear chamber back
upstream towards the blockage.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
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Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:


Makes no sense with our system. The blockage is clearly distal to
the chamber closest to the road. No point in rodding back up a
clear system. There is no "chamber" at the vent pipe, just a small grate
in the driveway with a 4" pipe beneath it. I can "plunge" this pipe
vertically up and down but the rods don't progress in either
direction.
[Try again - I hit send before I intended to, the last time]

There's *every* point in rodding up a clear system - in order to
reach the blockage and dislodge it - but probably with a twirly
fitting rather than a plunger on the end of the rods. If you start
from a full chamber, it can be extremely difficult to find the outlet
to get the rods started. It's easy from a clear one. Assuming there's
a chamber where your sewer joins the sewer under the road, start from
the road end.

Nope. If I had an empty chamber downstream of the vent, I would be rodding
it, believe me, but I don't. The sequence is: chamber - vent - street. The
blockage (judging by the way that the fluid level is high in the vent pipe
when the system backs up) is clearly between the vent and the street, a
section that I don't can't rod without climbing down the sewer and rodding
back up from under the street. (Somewhat outwith my domain I suspect).

Tim

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:


Nope. If I had an empty chamber downstream of the vent, I would be
rodding it, believe me, but I don't. The sequence is: chamber - vent
- street. The blockage (judging by the way that the fluid level is
high in the vent pipe when the system backs up) is clearly between
the vent and the street, a section that I don't can't rod without
climbing down the sewer and rodding back up from under the street.
(Somewhat outwith my domain I suspect).
Tim

Well, you seemingly *do* have an empty chamber downstream of the blockage -
albeit a public one. That's where I'd start! Do you really need to climb
down into it - can't you wangle the rods into the end of the branch
connection from street level? [If you *do* need to go down, it becomes
non-trivial because, as soon as you've cleared the blockage, the chamber
could start to (temporarily) fill up very rapidly - depending on how much
volume is backed up].

With regard to whose domain it is, I'm assuming that it's a private sewer
which is blocked - which means that the cost of unblocking it is down to
you. If you employ someone to do it, they'll likely start from the street
end - so why not do the same if you're D-I-Y-ing it?

If you don't want to do that, you could *try* rodding downstream from a full
chamber but - as I said earlier - you'll probably have quite a job finding
the outlet, to get the rods started. Unless there's a step in the pipe where
the vent joins (unlikely), you should be able to rod straight past the vent
junction.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:


Nope. If I had an empty chamber downstream of the vent, I would be
rodding it, believe me, but I don't. The sequence is: chamber -
vent - street. The blockage (judging by the way that the fluid
level is high in the vent pipe when the system backs up) is clearly
between
the vent and the street, a section that I don't can't rod without
climbing down the sewer and rodding back up from under the street.
(Somewhat outwith my domain I suspect).
Tim

Well, you seemingly *do* have an empty chamber downstream of the
blockage - albeit a public one.

Please go back and read my first post. I'm fast losing the will to live (or
at least explain *yet again* that there is no other chamber downstream of
the vent pipe).

Tim

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:


Please go back and read my first post. I'm fast losing the will to
live (or at least explain *yet again* that there is no other chamber
downstream of the vent pipe).

Tim

You've clearly got all the answers - so why bother asking here?!

How, pray, could you 'climb down' into the sewer under the street if there
isn't a chamber?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
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monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:


Please go back and read my first post. I'm fast losing the will to
live (or at least explain *yet again* that there is no other chamber
downstream of the vent pipe).

Tim

You've clearly got all the answers - so why bother asking here?!

How, pray, could you 'climb down' into the sewer under the street if
there isn't a chamber?

I would call an inspection hatch that allows access to you drains within
your property a "chamber". I doubt many folk would consider the sewer in
the public road "a chamber". Nor do I imagine many DIYers climb down into
the public sewer for the puposes of rodding their drains from "the bottom
up".

Not saying its a bad idea, I just doubt that many folk climb down manholes
in the street, crawl along the sewer (with a bunch of rods) and then try
rodding their drains from below.

Anyone here done that? Does one have a right of access to the public
sewers?

Tim

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
Our house was built in the early 70s and has a twin pipe system for rain
water & sewerage.

We've a problem with the system backing up periodically that can be
cleared
by rodding with a rubber disk on a drain rod down a vent pipe that's
situated between an inspection chamber in the drive and the main sewer in
the road.

After rodding there is always some "water" visible down at the bottom of
the
vent pipe. Would I be right in thinking that there's some sort of
bend/trap
in the system at that point?

If there normally *isn't*, should I be able to rod through from the
inspection chamber right past this vent pipe position towards the road?

It's not a major problem but clearly something isn't quite right and if
there's anything I can do with drain rods rather than digging 6' down
through the driveway I'd be interested to hear.

Tim




Is there a plugged off hole directly above the outlet in your inspection
chamber in the drive?

Heliotrope Smith wrote:
Is there a plugged off hole directly above the outlet in your
inspection chamber in the drive?

No. I can pass rods down from the inspection chamber towards the vent (&
the street) but last time I tried, they wouldn't go past the vent. Is this
normal or does it indicate a partial obstruction?

Tim

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
Heliotrope Smith wrote:
Is there a plugged off hole directly above the outlet in your
inspection chamber in the drive?

No. I can pass rods down from the inspection chamber towards the vent (&
the street) but last time I tried, they wouldn't go past the vent. Is
this
normal or does it indicate a partial obstruction?

Tim


I would suggest that there could well be an obstruction in the vicinity of
the vent.
If there is a trap in your pipework then I would have thought that there
would be an interceptor (bypass) that you could get at in order to be able
to rod through to the public sewer.

If rodding for any distance then put the wheel or even nothing on the end
of the rods
rather than the rubber plunger.

The message
from "Tim Downie" contains these words:

Not saying its a bad idea, I just doubt that many folk climb down manholes
in the street, crawl along the sewer (with a bunch of rods) and then try
rodding their drains from below.

Anyone here done that? Does one have a right of access to the public
sewers?

Not all public sewers are of large diameter. I can't see anyone managing
to crawl along a 6" or even a 12" public sewer. :-)

The water co insist that my branch sewer is private right up to the
point it reaches the main (12") sewer 10 or more yards down the road.

Some cheapskate private contractor with a drain sucking wagon lifted my
triangular cover in the road and dumped the contents of his truck,
including a load of plastic bottles and other plastic waste into the
chamber below, which only had a 4" outlet. This blocked the outlet and
the sewer eventually backed up to the extent that draining the bath one
evening started to flood the kitchen. Luckily I heard the strange noise
from the kitchen below and stuck the plug back in the bath before the
majority of the water escaped.

The professional I got in initially tried water jetting from my manhole
but quickly switched to the public sewer when he got nowhere fast. He
had difficulty opening the manhole as it didn't have the normal lifting
slots (which is presumably why the above mentioned cheapskate chose my
sewer to dump his rubbish in). From the public sewer he eventually
managed to force his water jet into my inspection chamber but every time
he withdrew the hose the rubbish blocked the outlet again and he didn't
manage to reduce the water level at all. (About 8 foot head in the
chamber).

Next day they turned up with a gully sucker and, after trying again to
jet the obstruction, sucked the chamber dry. The drivers mate had the
unenviable task of climbing down into the chamber to remove the last of
the litter.

--
Roger Chapman

Heliotrope Smith wrote:


If rodding for any distance then put the wheel or even nothing on the
end of the rods
rather than the rubber plunger.

Good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a go.

Tim

Roger wrote:
The message
from "Tim Downie" contains these
words:

Not saying its a bad idea, I just doubt that many folk climb down
manholes in the street, crawl along the sewer (with a bunch of
rods) and then try rodding their drains from below.

Anyone here done that? Does one have a right of access to the
public sewers?

Not all public sewers are of large diameter. I can't see anyone
managing to crawl along a 6" or even a 12" public sewer. :-)

Quite. Hence my querying the logic of the advice to consider the street
sewer "a chamber" and to go down there and rod back up the way.


The water co insist that my branch sewer is private right up to the
point it reaches the main (12") sewer 10 or more yards down the road.

Some cheapskate private contractor with a drain sucking wagon lifted
my triangular cover in the road and dumped the contents of his truck,
[...]

Next day they turned up with a gully sucker and, after trying again to
jet the obstruction, sucked the chamber dry. The drivers mate had the
unenviable task of climbing down into the chamber to remove the last
of the litter.

Yuck. Glad it wasn't my sewer. ;-)

Tim

In message , Tim Downie
writes
Heliotrope Smith wrote:


If rodding for any distance then put the wheel or even nothing on the
end of the rods
rather than the rubber plunger.

Good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a go.

And keep rotating the rod string clockwise or you may need to retrieve a
set of rods as well:-)

regards

--
Tim Lamb

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:

Roger wrote:
The message

Not all public sewers are of large diameter. I can't see anyone
managing to crawl along a 6" or even a 12" public sewer. :-)

Quite. Hence my querying the logic of the advice to consider the
street sewer "a chamber" and to go down there and rod back up the way.


I obviously don't know what your street sewer is like - but my foul sewer is
6" in diameter (and the surface water sewer is 12"). At each point where a
private branch sewer connects into the public sewer there is a 'chamber' -
about 2 metres deep and 1 metre in diameter, constructed out of interlocking
concrete cylinders, with a heavy cast-iron triangular lid at road level. At
the bottom, the main public sewer flows through as an open channel - and the
branch comes in from the side. You can rod up the branch from road level -
if you're sufficiently adept at steering the rods into the hole - without
needing to climb down.

Do you not have anything like that? Have you actually *looked*?
--
Cheers,
Roger
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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , Tim Downie
writes
Heliotrope Smith wrote:


If rodding for any distance then put the wheel or even nothing on the
end of the rods
rather than the rubber plunger.

Good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a go.

And keep rotating the rod string clockwise or you may need to retrieve a
set of rods as well:-)

Not that stoopid. ;-)

Tim

Roger Mills wrote:


Do you not have anything like that? Have you actually *looked*?

Oh silly me, there's a chamber there all along that I completely overlooked
and failed to mention.

Go back and read my first post. Did I mention a chamber in the road? No.
Guess why? Because there isn't one.

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:

Makes no sense with our system. The blockage is clearly distal to
the chamber closest to the road. No point in rodding back up a
clear system. There is no "chamber" at the vent pipe, just a small grate
in the driveway with a 4" pipe beneath it. I can "plunge" this pipe
vertically up and down but the rods don't progress in either
direction.
[Try again - I hit send before I intended to, the last time]

There's *every* point in rodding up a clear system - in order to
reach the blockage and dislodge it - but probably with a twirly
fitting rather than a plunger on the end of the rods. If you start
from a full chamber, it can be extremely difficult to find the outlet
to get the rods started. It's easy from a clear one. Assuming there's
a chamber where your sewer joins the sewer under the road, start from
the road end.

Nope. If I had an empty chamber downstream of the vent, I would be rodding
it, believe me, but I don't. The sequence is: chamber - vent - street. The
blockage (judging by the way that the fluid level is high in the vent pipe
when the system backs up) is clearly between the vent and the street, a
section that I don't can't rod without climbing down the sewer and rodding
back up from under the street. (Somewhat outwith my domain I suspect).


Then its water companies problem.

Tim

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Tim Downie wrote:

The sequence is: chamber -
vent - street. The blockage (judging by the way that the fluid
level is high in the vent pipe when the system backs up) is clearly
between the vent and the street, a section that I don't can't rod
without climbing down the sewer and rodding back up from under the
street. (Somewhat outwith my domain I suspect).

Then its water companies problem.


Not necessarily! If the public sewer is blocked, and backing up into the
private sewer, then it *is* the water company's problem. If, however, the
public sewer is clear, and the blockage is within the private sewer, it's
the OP's problem.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:


Do you not have anything like that? Have you actually *looked*?

Oh silly me, there's a chamber there all along that I completely
overlooked and failed to mention.

Go back and read my first post. Did I mention a chamber in the road?
No. Guess why? Because there isn't one.

Tim

You would do well to be slightly less abusive towards those who are trying
to help!

It's extremely bad practice to tee a private sewer into a public sewer
'blind' without providing a chamber, but it did happen quite a lot. There
must be an inspection chamber *somewhere* close to you on the public sewer,
even if not at the junction with your private sewer. You need to find one -
preferably upstream - and check that it's running clear. If your not sure of
the line of the sewer, ask your water company for a map of public sewers in
your vicinity.

Assuming it is, you then need professional help to pump out your blocked
private sewer, and then put a camera down it to see what's going on. Expect
to pay a few hundred quid.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
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monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tim Downie wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:


Do you not have anything like that? Have you actually *looked*?

Oh silly me, there's a chamber there all along that I completely
overlooked and failed to mention.

Go back and read my first post. Did I mention a chamber in the
road? No. Guess why? Because there isn't one.

Tim

You would do well to be slightly less abusive towards those who are
trying to help!

You would do well to stop being so patronising to those you purport to help!

You never once suggested the there "might" or "ought" to be an inspection
chamber in the street. Instead you assumed that I was too stupid to look
for one.


It's extremely bad practice to tee a private sewer into a public sewer
'blind' without providing a chamber, but it did happen quite a lot.
There must be an inspection chamber *somewhere* close to you on the
public sewer, even if not at the junction with your private sewer.
You need to find one - preferably upstream - and check that it's
running clear. If your not sure of the line of the sewer, ask your
water company for a map of public sewers in your vicinity.

Assuming it is, you then need professional help to pump out your
blocked private sewer, and then put a camera down it to see what's
going on. Expect to pay a few hundred quid.

Again, you've clearly not read my original post. I said it was an
occasional problem that can be cleared with a bit of plunging down the vent
pipe. I was curious as to whether I should be able to rod past the vent
pipe from my chamber as I don't know what normally happens as the junction
of the vent pipe & my sewer. I.e., is it a straight "T" joint? Is the some
form of water trap?

Tim

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 22:03:43 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "Tim
Downie" randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:

We've a problem with the system backing up periodically that can be cleared
by rodding with a rubber disk on a drain rod down a vent pipe that's
situated between an inspection chamber in the drive and the main sewer in
the road.

After rodding there is always some "water" visible down at the bottom of the
vent pipe. Would I be right in thinking that there's some sort of bend/trap
in the system at that point?

If there normally *isn't*, should I be able to rod through from the
inspection chamber right past this vent pipe position towards the road?

When you say a vent pipe, I presume you're referring to a stack which
rises vertically up the side of your house to the eaves or
thereabouts, with or without other branches teeing into it above
ground? If so, then it shouldn't have a trap in it. If you rod down
it, you may not be able to get them past the 'T' or 'y' bend.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Hugo Nebula wrote:

When you say a vent pipe, I presume you're referring to a stack which
rises vertically up the side of your house to the eaves or
thereabouts, with or without other branches teeing into it above
ground?

Um, no. In my driveway, flush with the ground, is a small grating. This is
halfway between the only inspection chamber in my drive and the road. Under
it is a 4" (or thereabouts) pipe that descends vertically down to the level
of the domestic sewer at that point (about 2 drain rods depth).

Tim

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:39:30 -0000, a particular chimpanzee, "Tim
Downie" randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:

Um, no. In my driveway, flush with the ground, is a small grating. This is
halfway between the only inspection chamber in my drive and the road. Under
it is a 4" (or thereabouts) pipe that descends vertically down to the level
of the domestic sewer at that point (about 2 drain rods depth).

Then it sounds like a rainwater gully. This should be connected to
the surface water drain (and may or may not be trapped) or, if it's
connected to the foul system, should be trapped.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"