My toilet cistern fairly recently started getting quite annoying. You go to
flush and the handle just goes down but not a lot happens flushing wise.
You have to "pump" the handle half way down and slowly two or three times
and then it will flush.

I had to replace the tie rod from the handle to the plunger a few years back
as it rusted through and I wonder if this might be relevant to my current
problem. Getting in to the cistern workings is a PITA as it has been boxed
in and is only accessible through a small hatch at the top about 15 inches
wide and four inches deep. This has put me off looking again. Any ideas?

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:09:35 +0000, gazzafield
wrote:

My toilet cistern fairly recently started getting quite annoying. You go to
flush and the handle just goes down but not a lot happens flushing wise.
You have to "pump" the handle half way down and slowly two or three times
and then it will flush.

I had to replace the tie rod from the handle to the plunger a few years back
as it rusted through and I wonder if this might be relevant to my current
problem. Getting in to the cistern workings is a PITA as it has been boxed
in and is only accessible through a small hatch at the top about 15 inches
wide and four inches deep. This has put me off looking again. Any ideas?

If it's the old type, it sound like the diaphragm has failed. They used to be
rubber but are now plastic. I used a couple together a few years back or you
could cut one from a sheet of stout pastic. There's no easy way of doing it !

ANdy

In message , gazzafield
writes
My toilet cistern fairly recently started getting quite annoying. You go to
flush and the handle just goes down but not a lot happens flushing wise.
You have to "pump" the handle half way down and slowly two or three times
and then it will flush.

I had to replace the tie rod from the handle to the plunger a few years back
as it rusted through and I wonder if this might be relevant to my current
problem. Getting in to the cistern workings is a PITA as it has been boxed
in and is only accessible through a small hatch at the top about 15 inches
wide and four inches deep. This has put me off looking again. Any ideas?

The syphon diaphragm has failed. Either change that or for not much more
money change the complete syphon.

--
Si

Si wrote:
In message , gazzafield
writes
My toilet cistern fairly recently started getting quite annoying. You
go to
flush and the handle just goes down but not a lot happens flushing wise.
You have to "pump" the handle half way down and slowly two or three times
and then it will flush.

I had to replace the tie rod from the handle to the plunger a few
years back
as it rusted through and I wonder if this might be relevant to my current
problem. Getting in to the cistern workings is a PITA as it has been
boxed
in and is only accessible through a small hatch at the top about 15
inches
wide and four inches deep. This has put me off looking again. Any
ideas?

The syphon diaphragm has failed. Either change that or for not much more
money change the complete syphon.


A quick job. Spend the rest of the weekend re-doing the boxing-in. Think
yourself lucky it hasn't been tiled....:-)

Si wrote:
In message , gazzafield
writes
My toilet cistern fairly recently started getting quite annoying. You
go to
flush and the handle just goes down but not a lot happens flushing wise.
You have to "pump" the handle half way down and slowly two or three times
and then it will flush.

I had to replace the tie rod from the handle to the plunger a few
years back
as it rusted through and I wonder if this might be relevant to my current
problem. Getting in to the cistern workings is a PITA as it has been
boxed
in and is only accessible through a small hatch at the top about 15
inches
wide and four inches deep. This has put me off looking again. Any
ideas?

The syphon diaphragm has failed. Either change that or for not much more
money change the complete syphon.

It won't cost a penny to fit a new diaphragm though, if you use a bit of
spare plastic! Not much point buying one from B&Q for a quid, as IME
they always need trimming to fot anyway.

To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

So a cheap job but time-consuming for you... maybe you can take the
opportunity to rebuild the boxing with a bigger access hatch!

David

"Lobster" wrote


It won't cost a penny to fit a new diaphragm though, if you use a bit of
spare plastic! Not much point buying one from B&Q for a quid, as IME they
always need trimming to fot anyway.

To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing for
it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the underside
of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

So a cheap job but time-consuming for you... maybe you can take the
opportunity to rebuild the boxing with a bigger access hatch!

Also consider fitting a 2 part syphon which allows the diaphragm to be
changed without removing the whole unit.
And incorporating a removable panel in your box work for access.

Phil

Lobster wrote:
....
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large bolts
and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and there's no
obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??



So a cheap job but time-consuming for you... maybe you can take the
opportunity to rebuild the boxing with a bigger access hatch!

David



--
Mike Scott (unet at scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England

Mike Scott wrote:

Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large bolts
and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and there's no
obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??




http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/toilets.htm

In message , Mike Scott
writes
Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large
bolts and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and
there's no obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??

Buy replacement syphon kit which will probably have diagram showing how
it all goes together. Turn off water supply or tie up valve. Flush loo
to empty cistern.

Remove as much bodger's mastic as possible. Undo wing nuts. Undo screws
which hold cistern to wall. Lift cistern off.

You will now have access to large plastic nut which unscrews from the
bottom of the cistern.

When replacing syphon ensure you fit the doughnut washer the correct way
up. (I didn't once and it leaked until I repeated the process
correctly.)

--
Si

The message
from gazzafield
contains these words:

My toilet cistern fairly recently started getting quite annoying. You go to
flush and the handle just goes down but not a lot happens flushing wise.
You have to "pump" the handle half way down and slowly two or three times
and then it will flush.

I had to replace the tie rod from the handle to the plunger a few years back
as it rusted through and I wonder if this might be relevant to my current
problem. Getting in to the cistern workings is a PITA as it has been boxed
in and is only accessible through a small hatch at the top about 15 inches
wide and four inches deep. This has put me off looking again. Any ideas?

What sort of cistern is it? Sounds like a split diaphragm if it's a
siphonic cistern. If so, replace the siphon -- cost is negligible. Or
if you're really mean, cut a new diaphragm from any convenient material,
ideally neoprene.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:25:38 GMT, Mike Scott
wrote:

Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large bolts
and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and there's no
obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??

You have answered your own question ."The cistern is held to the pan
with two large bolts
and wing nuts "

Cut of the water supply to the toilet,detach the overflow pipe if
fitted ,unscrew the wing nuts and remove any screws holding the
cistern to the wall. Lift off the cistern and empty it somewhere (
bath?) .Remove the fittings on the bottom of the cistern and then
remove the large plastic nut etc .This will free the syphon but you
need to detach the link to the flush handle .
Replace the cistern ..a new one might have a built in overflow so that
will make any existing overflow redundant so you might wish to block
off the top of the overflow pipe but it's probably not necessary
Refit in reverse of above .

Si wrote:
In message , Mike Scott
writes
Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.

Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at
the underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush
to the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large
bolts and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and
there's no obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??

Buy replacement syphon kit which will probably have diagram showing how
it all goes together. Turn off water supply or tie up valve. Flush loo
to empty cistern.

Remove as much bodger's mastic as possible. Undo wing nuts. Undo screws
which hold cistern to wall. Lift cistern off.

Yep - if there's loads of mastic it may be well stuck down and take some
shifting... try to get a stanley blade or something between them
surfaces to cut through as much as possible!

David

gazzafield wrote:
Mike Scott wrote:

Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.
Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large bolts
and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and there's no
obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??




http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/toilets.htm

Thanks (and to the others who replied). I'd rather assumed it would be
possible w/o removing the entire cistern. Oh well, live & learn :-(

Looking in the screwfix catalogue, I see there's a 'flapper valve'
listed as an alternative to the syphon (p/n 36240). Is it worth paying
extra for one of these?


--
Mike Scott (unet at scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England

In message , Mike Scott
writes
gazzafield wrote:
Mike Scott wrote:

Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.
Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large bolts
and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and there's no
obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/toilets.htm

Thanks (and to the others who replied). I'd rather assumed it would be
possible w/o removing the entire cistern. Oh well, live & learn :-(

I'll confess that I have never actually removed the cistern from the
wall when replacing the syphon but I thought it best to tell you how to
do the job 'properly'.

The first time I had to do the job I didn't take advice and made the
procedure up as I went along. I decided that removing and rehanging the
cistern (and disconnecting and reconnecting the overflow pipe) was too
much hassle and, having emptied the cistern as much as possible and
having undone the wing nuts and removed the bolts I managed to tilt and
manoeuvre the bowl out from its connection with the cistern and waste
pipe in the wall. (At this point you need a low profile bowl to catch
water that comes out the back of the U-bend.) Having replaced the syphon
I then succeeded in refitting the whole caboodle. (Note I've done this
twice as first time I stupidly fitted the doughnut washer upside down so
that it leaked.)

I'm sure someone will be along in a mo to tell you why doing it my way
is crazy but it did enable to realise that emptying the waste water from
the carpet shampooer down the loo was a bad idea as grit was collecting
in the folds of the rubberised waste pipe connector.

--
Si

The message
from Mike Scott contains
these words:


Looking in the screwfix catalogue, I see there's a 'flapper valve'
listed as an alternative to the syphon (p/n 36240). Is it worth paying
extra for one of these?

IMHO NO, NO, NO and NO again!

In general use in the USA and certainly all the ones I've seen there
have been an unmitigated disaster.!

wrote:
On 21 Jan,
Mike Scott wrote:

Looking in the screwfix catalogue, I see there's a 'flapper valve'
listed as an alternative to the syphon (p/n 36240). Is it worth paying
extra for one of these?

Not unless you want to repeat the job every couple of years. they leak after
not too long. A syphon rarely, if at all leaks, and will probably do 20+
years.

Hmmph. More like 10 for the present one. But I'll take the advice and
stick with a new syphon.

Thanks all.


--
Mike Scott (unet at scottsonline.org.uk)
Harlow Essex England

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:35:30 +0000, Si $3o&m wrote:

In message , Mike Scott
writes
gazzafield wrote:
Mike Scott wrote:

Lobster wrote:
...
To the OP - yes, sure to be the diaphragm: I'm afraid there's nothing
for it but to remove the syphon, for which you'll need to access the
underside of the cistern to release the retaining nut.
Daft question, but - having similar symptoms - I see I can't get at the
underside of the cistern, as it's a low-level cistern fitted flush to
the back of the pan. The cistern is held to the pan with two large bolts
and wing nuts, and lots of mastic. I've looked inside, and there's no
obvious fixing either. So how should it come apart........??
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/toilets.htm

Thanks (and to the others who replied). I'd rather assumed it would be
possible w/o removing the entire cistern. Oh well, live & learn :-(

I'll confess that I have never actually removed the cistern from the
wall when replacing the syphon but I thought it best to tell you how to
do the job 'properly'.

The first time I had to do the job I didn't take advice and made the
procedure up as I went along. I decided that removing and rehanging the
cistern (and disconnecting and reconnecting the overflow pipe) was too
much hassle and, having emptied the cistern as much as possible and
having undone the wing nuts and removed the bolts I managed to tilt and
manoeuvre the bowl out from its connection with the cistern and waste
pipe in the wall. (At this point you need a low profile bowl to catch
water that comes out the back of the U-bend.) Having replaced the syphon
I then succeeded in refitting the whole caboodle. (Note I've done this
twice as first time I stupidly fitted the doughnut washer upside down so
that it leaked.)

I'm sure someone will be along in a mo to tell you why doing it my way
is crazy but it did enable to realise that emptying the waste water from
the carpet shampooer down the loo was a bad idea as grit was collecting
in the folds of the rubberised waste pipe connector.

Yes.Doing it that way IS crazy ..