Paul Leyland wrote:
Jon Green writes:

Paul Leyland wrote:
Electrolyse sea water. Liquify the hydrogen. Ship hydrogen.
Probably a good idea if you ship the oxygen too, and close the
loop. Mind you, you'll have an excess of oxygen at the other end:

Oxygen ships itself around without any trouble whatsoever. Think
about where most of the photsynthesis takes place...

Strange, I thought I'd given the impression I wasn't a reception class
pupil. Hey ho. Dumping huge quantities of O2 into the atmosphere in a
tight locale probably isn't the smartest move ever.

hydrogen's a bugger to ship, it leaks and perfuses out everywhere.
Oh, and since its boiling point is only around 20K, shipping it in
liquid form has its own issues!

True, but as I said, liquid methane is already shipped around in very
large quantities; the technology already exists.

Oil get shipped around in very large quantites too, and that's about as
relevant. Others have taken my point further: I won't belabour it.

And you're going to have to deal with the production of chlorine and
sodium (compounds) in super-industrial quantities, assuming all of
Iceland's excess hydroelectricity's being used for this.

Chlorine is a useful industrial chemical in its own right. You're not
going to get any sodium while there's still plenty of water around in
the electrolysis plant.

The key phrases in my comment were "super-industrial quantities" and
"(compounds)". What you're proposing isn't a little proof-of-concept
test rig, it's something to soak up enough electricity to power a
significant chunk of Europe!

Apart from H2 and O2, that's going to liberate humungous amounts of
chlorine compounds and sodium compounds, and you've got to do
_something_ with them, they don't just "go away". Whilst there's a lot
of demand for chlorine, it's a readily-available element, a gas that's
cheap and easy to generate locally, so you've somehow got to price
yourself under local generation, including shipping costs of a very
hazardous compound. And then there's the sodium...

Jon
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Jon Green wrote:
Paul Leyland wrote:
Jon Green writes:

Paul Leyland wrote:
Electrolyse sea water. Liquify the hydrogen. Ship hydrogen.
Probably a good idea if you ship the oxygen too, and close the
loop. Mind you, you'll have an excess of oxygen at the other end:

Oxygen ships itself around without any trouble whatsoever. Think
about where most of the photsynthesis takes place...

Strange, I thought I'd given the impression I wasn't a reception class
pupil. Hey ho. Dumping huge quantities of O2 into the atmosphere in a
tight locale probably isn't the smartest move ever.


Its a reasonable safe and useful (valuable) gas to have bottled up anyway.

hydrogen's a bugger to ship, it leaks and perfuses out everywhere.
Oh, and since its boiling point is only around 20K, shipping it in
liquid form has its own issues!

True, but as I said, liquid methane is already shipped around in very
large quantities; the technology already exists.

Oil get shipped around in very large quantites too, and that's about as
relevant. Others have taken my point further: I won't belabour it.

And you're going to have to deal with the production of chlorine and
sodium (compounds) in super-industrial quantities, assuming all of
Iceland's excess hydroelectricity's being used for this.

Chlorine is a useful industrial chemical in its own right. You're not
going to get any sodium while there's still plenty of water around in
the electrolysis plant.

The key phrases in my comment were "super-industrial quantities" and
"(compounds)". What you're proposing isn't a little proof-of-concept
test rig, it's something to soak up enough electricity to power a
significant chunk of Europe!

Apart from H2 and O2, that's going to liberate humungous amounts of
chlorine compounds and sodium compounds, and you've got to do
_something_ with them, they don't just "go away". Whilst there's a lot
of demand for chlorine, it's a readily-available element, a gas that's
cheap and easy to generate locally, so you've somehow got to price
yourself under local generation, including shipping costs of a very
hazardous compound. And then there's the sodium...

Jon

Jon Green wrote:
Paul Leyland wrote:
Jon Green writes:

Paul Leyland wrote:
Electrolyse sea water. Liquify the hydrogen. Ship hydrogen.
Probably a good idea if you ship the oxygen too, and close the
loop. Mind you, you'll have an excess of oxygen at the other end:

Oxygen ships itself around without any trouble whatsoever. Think
about where most of the photsynthesis takes place...

Strange, I thought I'd given the impression I wasn't a reception class
pupil. Hey ho. Dumping huge quantities of O2 into the atmosphere in a
tight locale probably isn't the smartest move ever.

hydrogen's a bugger to ship, it leaks and perfuses out everywhere.
Oh, and since its boiling point is only around 20K, shipping it in
liquid form has its own issues!

True, but as I said, liquid methane is already shipped around in very
large quantities; the technology already exists.

Oil get shipped around in very large quantites too, and that's about as
relevant. Others have taken my point further: I won't belabour it.

And you're going to have to deal with the production of chlorine and
sodium (compounds) in super-industrial quantities, assuming all of
Iceland's excess hydroelectricity's being used for this.

Chlorine is a useful industrial chemical in its own right. You're not
going to get any sodium while there's still plenty of water around in
the electrolysis plant.

The key phrases in my comment were "super-industrial quantities" and
"(compounds)". What you're proposing isn't a little proof-of-concept
test rig, it's something to soak up enough electricity to power a
significant chunk of Europe!

Apart from H2 and O2, that's going to liberate humungous amounts of
chlorine compounds and sodium compounds, and you've got to do
_something_ with them, they don't just "go away". Whilst there's a lot
of demand for chlorine, it's a readily-available element, a gas that's
cheap and easy to generate locally, so you've somehow got to price
yourself under local generation, including shipping costs of a very
hazardous compound. And then there's the sodium...

Jon

You won't get any sodium, just hydrogen.

But with seawater you won't get oxygen, just chlorine which is (a)
poisonous and (b) rather bad for the ozone layer, so you need to do
something with it. Probably better to feed your process on fresh water.

The oxygen is waste, but it'll blow away just like the CO2 from a coal
fired plant does, and mix up nicely with the marginally O2 poor air from
where you are burning the hydrogen.

However, Iceland doesn't have a terawatt sized generator, and that's the
kind of number we need for this plant.

Andy