Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now
there's a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


.....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..


Are there really Tellies that use 5 watts on stand-by. Most are less than
one watt - yet people are made to feel guilty by using stand-by. (my 5 year
old TV is 0.7 watts on stand-by.)

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:55:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Feel free to add...

23. Sequestration of cow farts?
24. Planting a tree on your head.

You can't just come up with a list like that, anyway. You need committees
and meeja coverage and decades of arguing first... :-)

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car pooling?)

Jules

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message


Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..



The Natural Philosopher

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..

plus:

23. Tesco Bag for Life
24. Bio fuel Patio Heater
25. Organic Vegetable


mark

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..

23. Voting for Benazir Bhutto.

Adam

Jules wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:55:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Feel free to add...

23. Sequestration of cow farts?
24. Planting a tree on your head.

You can't just come up with a list like that, anyway. You need committees
and meeja coverage and decades of arguing first... :-)

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car pooling?)


Definitely.

Every time I se a 400bhp bus with no one it it, taking up the space of 5
cars, I get a bad feeling. All that stop start just chews diesel.

Never confuse busses with long haul coaches, fast, full and relatively
efficient.

Ban the Bus!




Jules

ARWadsworth wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..

23. Voting for Benazir Bhutto.


Mmm. bit late with that one..


Adam

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..




What might work is lots and lots more fat people acting as carbon storage
depots.

mark

Mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..




What might work is lots and lots more fat people acting as carbon storage
depots.


Yep. Never mind burning art students and catholics, BURN the OBESE.

Its very PC isn't it?

"Render unto tallow, that which is tallow"

As it were.

Tell you what tho, that would cure obesity pretty damn quickly.

"I can't do anything about it, its in my genes"

"Right, on the fire with you then missus, genes and all"


mark

In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.
They work when there is a need for mass transportation from one definite
point to another. Or within a pretty constrained area.

Sadly this is NOT , largely, what commuting is all about, nor yet most
other uses to which people put transport.

But once everybody realises that going shopping and going to work is a
total waste of time and money, and you can do more huddled over a DSL
modem at home, the question should largely become irrelevant.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.

Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of contributing to
changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim that we
can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the planet".

--
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor

In article , says...
10. Compulsory vegetarianism.

Of the list, that would probably make the most difference though.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

In article , john.plant90
@ntlworld.com says...
Are there really Tellies that use 5 watts on stand-by.

It's not just the telly though. The combination of telly, DVD and Set
Top Box drew nearly 60W when "off". The chief vilain was the STB, which
gobbles power even when on standby. They all go off on a wall switch
now.

Likewise the stack of stuff behind the computer. Two computers, two
printers, two monitors, two reading lamps with transformers, two sets of
speakers, router, HiFi. It was drawing nearly 100W on standby before I
fitted a night switch.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

In article ,
says...
What might work is lots and lots more fat people acting as carbon storage
depots.

Then slaughter us at peak mass and bury us under suitable geology to
provide the future with oil and gas.

--
Skipweasel.
Never knowingly understood.

"Dave {Reply Address in.Sig}" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural
Philosopher wrote:

Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now
there's a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..

How about my server farm behind me? I leave my PCs (i.e. more than one) on
24/7... In winter it just reduces my heating bill.

As does my PC - it gets left on constantly, and it keeps one room warm
enough that the radiator is set to a minimum. Leave the door open and it
helps warm the whole house - maybe not when it`s -5 outside, but when it`s
just a bit nippy it can make the difference between the heating being on or
being off. I`ll have to sit down and do the sums, work out if it actually
saves me money based solely on the heating effect. I`m sure it`s better in
total cost because the parts are more reliable running 24/7 then constantly
turning on and off, but just in terms of not having the heating on and
burning a constant 200-300W from the PC.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Jules wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:55:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Feel free to add...

23. Sequestration of cow farts?
24. Planting a tree on your head.

You can't just come up with a list like that, anyway. You need committees
and meeja coverage and decades of arguing first... :-)

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)


Definitely.

Every time I se a 400bhp bus with no one it it, taking up the space of 5
cars, I get a bad feeling. All that stop start just chews diesel.

Never confuse busses with long haul coaches, fast, full and relatively
efficient.

Ban the Bus!

But but but....
....then I wouldn't be able to get into Cambridge and traipse about all those
lovely shops with the wife....

light bulb

Ban the Bus!
Ban the Bus!
Ban the Bus!

--
¦zulu¦

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:18:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


Yep. Never mind burning art students and catholics, BURN the OBESE.

Feed the homeless to the hungry.



Its very PC isn't it?

"Render unto tallow, that which is tallow"

As it were.

Tell you what tho, that would cure obesity pretty damn quickly.

"I can't do anything about it, its in my genes"

"Right, on the fire with you then missus, genes and all"


mark


--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:31:35 -0000, "Simon Finnigan"
wrote:


How about my server farm behind me? I leave my PCs (i.e. more than one) on
24/7... In winter it just reduces my heating bill.

As does my PC - it gets left on constantly, and it keeps one room warm
enough that the radiator is set to a minimum. Leave the door open and it
helps warm the whole house - maybe not when it`s -5 outside, but when it`s
just a bit nippy it can make the difference between the heating being on or
being off. I`ll have to sit down and do the sums, work out if it actually
saves me money based solely on the heating effect. I`m sure it`s better in
total cost because the parts are more reliable running 24/7 then constantly
turning on and off, but just in terms of not having the heating on and
burning a constant 200-300W from the PC.

http://eartheasy.com/article_ten_ways_post_oil.htm

--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
Or get it delivered for free

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:38:57 +0000, Tim Ward wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.

Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of contributing to
changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim that we
can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the planet".

Yes, that was my way of reading the OP too - e.g. solar and wind power do
useful stuff in certain situations, but they're by no means the 'save the
planet' solution that some people appear to promote them as.

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:36:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
But once everybody realises that going shopping and going to work is a
total waste of time and money, and you can do more huddled over a DSL
modem at home, the question should largely become irrelevant.

Precisely. The problem shouldn't be one of "how do we get from A to B
efficiently", but "how do we avoid the need to get to B in the first
place"... and so far very few people seem to be worrying about that.

The whole concept of going to a central place to shop or work is one of
our own making, and in a lot of cases it's one that we could choose
to solve if we so wanted.

(Maybe we need a "1001 things that could save the planet" thread, too :-)

cheers

Jules

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 16:20:56 UTC, "John"
wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now there's
a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the implicit
corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..


Are there really Tellies that use 5 watts on stand-by. Most are less than
one watt - yet people are made to feel guilty by using stand-by. (my 5 year
old TV is 0.7 watts on stand-by.)

And that TVs are not on standby 24/7 anyway...some of the time they are
actually switched on and in use!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:48:05 -0600, Jules wrote:

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:38:57 +0000, Tim Ward wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk,
at 10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London,
or car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb
and you all drive to the same office in the city.

Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of contributing
to changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim
that we can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the
planet".

Yes, that was my way of reading the OP too - e.g. solar and wind power
do useful stuff in certain situations, but they're by no means the 'save
the planet' solution that some people appear to promote them as.

Yep, That's my take too. Even if we put all our resources behind doing
the things that do add up (and a lot don't; they make things worse), it
will be undone by the growth in the rest of the world in a very short
while. Nevertheless doing something is quite a useful occupation.


I'm more with the spirit of the /Surviviors/ the cult BBC drama from the
70's (which I hear is now going to be remade). I.e. The few people who
survive [1] will have to get on with how they find things and make the
best they can out of what they have.


[1] The zeitgeist of current reports is that there is some /sudden/
cataclysm coming. I just don't see how it will be so sudden. People are
the most adaptable land creatures. We collectively have found ways of
living in the deserts, arctic and rain forests. True everywhere on
average may become a lot less hospitable, but specific places already
have huge variations in their weather through the seasons which far
exceed that variation that some places experience. So there should be
some places that offer a workable habitat. What I am prepared to accept
is the impossibility of the current population/lifestyle continuing
without change for more than a few decades.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:31:35 UTC, "Simon Finnigan"
wrote:

As does my PC - it gets left on constantly, and it keeps one room warm
enough that the radiator is set to a minimum

Same here 0- except it's several of them. The four PCs in the rack
(infrastructure) draw about 220W between them...and the room radiator is
on a TRV.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:02:00 +0000, Skipweasel wrote:

In article , says...
10. Compulsory vegetarianism.

Of the list, that would probably make the most difference though.

I doubt it. I apply the same rigour of numerate analysis to greenwash as
I do to wonderfully unPC suggestions.
What % is humankind of the biosphere?
What % is the bioshere to the sum of coal/oil/gas/tar-shales?
what % is the biosphere to the hydrates on the sea bed?
What % is all the above to the carbon stored in carboniferous minerals?

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On 2007-12-27 17:23:17 +0000, Roland Perry said:

In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London,

An abomination. Hot (even in the winter), smelling of ****,
filthy, people pushing and shoving. A dreadful experience and I
refuse to use it.


or car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb
and you all drive to the same office in the city.

... can't remember ever having had a job like that

On 2007-12-27 17:11:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:

ARWadsworth wrote:

23. Voting for Benazir Bhutto.


Mmm. bit late with that one..


Let's be honest, it wasn't a matter of "if" but of "when".

(I still reckon that Musharraf wears a rug).

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 18:02:00 +0000, Skipweasel wrote:

In article , says...
10. Compulsory vegetarianism.

Of the list, that would probably make the most difference though.

I doubt it. I apply the same rigour of numerate analysis to greenwash as
I do to wonderfully unPC suggestions.
What % is humankind of the biosphere?
What % is the bioshere to the sum of coal/oil/gas/tar-shales?
what % is the biosphere to the hydrates on the sea bed?
What % is all the above to the carbon stored in carboniferous minerals?

Which of the above do plants come under?

mark

In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:

Yep, That's my take too. Even if we put all our resources behind doing
the things that do add up (and a lot don't; they make things worse), it
will be undone by the growth in the rest of the world in a very short
while. Nevertheless doing something is quite a useful occupation.

Well, I figure I've done my bit by engaging in autodarwination. I'll
therefore not feel guilty about putting food waste in the black bin.

On 27 Dec, 15:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.

....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash ********...that
you like..

Windmills adjacent to/ on the roof of BP petrol stations, Tesco's, or
most pathetically, the FOGB windmill outside the remnants of the Ford
works in Dagenham.
Painting BP petrol stations green (ditto every other business with a
feeble PR department that wants to pay lip service to the Eco
bandwagon and thinks their customers are thick).
Switching off the mobile charger when the mobile isn't plugged in.

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Roland Perry wrote:
In message . co.uk,
at 10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)
Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London,
or car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a
suburb and you all drive to the same office in the city.
They work when there is a need for mass transportation from one
definite point to another. Or within a pretty constrained area.

Sadly this is NOT , largely, what commuting is all about, nor yet most
other uses to which people put transport.

But once everybody realises that going shopping and going to work is a
total waste of time and money, and you can do more huddled over a DSL
modem at home, the question should largely become irrelevant.


Not an awful lot of use when it comes to hand-on jobs, is it ?


--
geoff

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Mark wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
.. .
Feel free to add...
1. CFL lightbulbs.
2. Taxing 4x4s out of existence.
3. Recycling paper and glass.
4. Prince Charles.
5. Greenpeace.
6. FOE.
7. Windmills
8. Speed humps
9. Bicycles.
10. Compulsory vegetarianism. (compulsory homosexuality might: Now
there's a thought)
11. God.
12. Al Gore.
13. Switching off your 5W telly overnight.
14. Biofuel.
15. Hydrogen fuel.
16. Pretending climate change isn't happening.
17. Accepting that it is, but denying it's man made, with the
implicit corollary that that means nothing need/can be done about it.
18. Saving the whale/great crested newt/lesser spotted amoeba/...add
anything you like here.
19. Wave power.
20. Solar energy.
21. Banning aeroplanes.
22. Banning fox hunting.


....that's a starter

Add any more items of particularly pernicious greenwash
********...that you like..


What might work is lots and lots more fat people acting as carbon
storage depots.


Yep. Never mind burning art students and catholics, BURN the OBESE.

Or ex IT bods



--
geoff

In message , Sarah Brown
writes
In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:

Yep, That's my take too. Even if we put all our resources behind doing
the things that do add up (and a lot don't; they make things worse), it
will be undone by the growth in the rest of the world in a very short
while. Nevertheless doing something is quite a useful occupation.

Well, I figure I've done my bit by engaging in autodarwination. I'll
therefore not feel guilty about putting food waste in the black bin.


DIY sterilisation ?


--
geoff

In message . co.uk,
Jules writes
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:38:57 +0000, Tim Ward wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.

Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of contributing to
changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim that we
can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the planet".

Yes, that was my way of reading the OP too - e.g. solar and wind power do
useful stuff in certain situations, but they're by no means the 'save the
planet' solution that some people appear to promote them as.

Just started reading an article in NS which opens saying that an area
half the size of texas in a sun drenched part of the world covered in PV
panels at 20% efficiency would be enough for global needs

.... during sunlight hours, of course

--
geoff

Tim Ward wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)
Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.

Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of contributing to
changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim that we
can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the planet".

In the sense that flying your panties on the canoe paddle as a sail
won't help you 100 meters from the waterfalls edge.

On 2007-12-27 21:26:43 +0000, geoff said:

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Roland Perry wrote:
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car pooling?)
Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London,
or car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb
and you all drive to the same office in the city.
They work when there is a need for mass transportation from one
definite point to another. Or within a pretty constrained area.

Sadly this is NOT , largely, what commuting is all about, nor yet most
other uses to which people put transport.

But once everybody realises that going shopping and going to work is a
total waste of time and money, and you can do more huddled over a DSL
modem at home, the question should largely become irrelevant.


Not an awful lot of use when it comes to hand-on jobs, is it ?

I read that (quickly) as something else.....

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:48:05 -0600, Jules wrote:

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:38:57 +0000, Tim Ward wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk,
at 10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)
Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London,
or car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb
and you all drive to the same office in the city.
Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of contributing
to changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim
that we can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the
planet".
Yes, that was my way of reading the OP too - e.g. solar and wind power
do useful stuff in certain situations, but they're by no means the 'save
the planet' solution that some people appear to promote them as.

Yep, That's my take too. Even if we put all our resources behind doing
the things that do add up (and a lot don't; they make things worse), it
will be undone by the growth in the rest of the world in a very short
while. Nevertheless doing something is quite a useful occupation.


I'm more with the spirit of the /Surviviors/ the cult BBC drama from the
70's (which I hear is now going to be remade). I.e. The few people who
survive [1] will have to get on with how they find things and make the
best they can out of what they have.


[1] The zeitgeist of current reports is that there is some /sudden/
cataclysm coming. I just don't see how it will be so sudden.

So mudslides, hurricanes, and floods aren't 'sudden' or a heatwave that
kills half the trees in a forest..or a forest fire....never mind the
sort of potential bistable flips that are certainly POSSIBLE if things
like e.g. No gulf stream, happen..



People are
the most adaptable land creatures. We collectively have found ways of
living in the deserts, arctic and rain forests. True everywhere on
average may become a lot less hospitable, but specific places already
have huge variations in their weather through the seasons which far
exceed that variation that some places experience. So there should be
some places that offer a workable habitat.

We can exist at the fringes at either very low population densities or
using massive amounts of energy hungry technology.

Take your pick.



What I am prepared to accept
is the impossibility of the current population/lifestyle continuing
without change for more than a few decades.


That's sophistry: It's always been true. I bet the Romans said just teh
same. In Latin...

geoff wrote:
In message , Sarah Brown
writes
In article ,
Ed Sirett wrote:

Yep, That's my take too. Even if we put all our resources behind doing
the things that do add up (and a lot don't; they make things worse), it
will be undone by the growth in the rest of the world in a very short
while. Nevertheless doing something is quite a useful occupation.

Well, I figure I've done my bit by engaging in autodarwination. I'll
therefore not feel guilty about putting food waste in the black bin.


DIY sterilisation ?


I think Chris had assistance.

geoff wrote:
In message . co.uk,
Jules writes
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:38:57 +0000, Tim Ward wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message . co.uk, at
10:45:15 on Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Jules
remarked:

(For more serious suggestions, can I add public transport and car
pooling?)

Both of those work when it's done properly. Like the tube in London, or
car pooling 9-5 office jobs when there's several of you in a suburb and
you all drive to the same office in the city.

Several of the things in TNP's list "work" in the sense of
contributing to
changing things in the right direction. I think he's trying to claim
that we
can do them all and it still won't be enough to "save the planet".

Yes, that was my way of reading the OP too - e.g. solar and wind power do
useful stuff in certain situations, but they're by no means the 'save the
planet' solution that some people appear to promote them as.

Just started reading an article in NS which opens saying that an area
half the size of texas in a sun drenched part of the world covered in PV
panels at 20% efficiency would be enough for global needs


Now find

- a 20% efficient solar panel.
- the means of actually transporting that energy across sea boundaries
at under a million quid a kilometer
- someone who will sell you Texas.
- and the money to actually build it.

AND what about all the bunni huggas who will complain that the
rattlesnakes are now an endangered species?



... during sunlight hours, of course

I didn't QUITE do the same sums, but we currently in the UK generate
about 10% of incident solar radiation as waste heat from everything we
burn. IIRC.