I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and
would appreciate suggestions.

Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a
commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?

PoP

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:16:55 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and
would appreciate suggestions.

Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a
commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?

PoP

I have the smaller Trend T5 and am pleased with it.

In the 1/2" size I have a DeWalt DW625EK and get good results with
that as well. It gets a lot of use.

I have a feeling that both are possibly an Italian job since most of
the accessories are interchangeable between the DW and the Trend T9.
There is a CMT model 1850 that is allegedly the same as well.

I've also used but don't have the Makita 3612 and Bosch GOF2000.
Both were good, although I preferred the feel of the DW. It could
have been familiarity, though.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in
:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:16:55 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and
would appreciate suggestions.

Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a
commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?

PoP

I have the smaller Trend T5 and am pleased with it.

In the 1/2" size I have a DeWalt DW625EK and get good results with
that as well. It gets a lot of use.

I have a feeling that both are possibly an Italian job since most of
the accessories are interchangeable between the DW and the Trend T9.
There is a CMT model 1850 that is allegedly the same as well.

Apart from the colour, the CMT1850 is exactly the same as the DeWalt
DW625EK - and no better or worse for that. I have the Dewally - it's a fine
router. When buying, I also looked at the T9 (which I see in a later post
you have actually bought) and the big Bosch. Would now add the newer bigger
Bosch and the Triton to my list.




--

Regards.

Nick Pitfield )

"PoP" wrote in message
...
I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and
would appreciate suggestions.

Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a
commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?

PoP

A lot is said for the Freud router... which incidentally is the same as the
Draper 1/2 in one..

I use a Makita 3612C and a Dewalt 625... Makita seems more powerful.. the
Dewalt easier to set up...

Best bet is to decide on your price limit... T9 is roughly far too much
for what is actually a black Metabo router.... the Metabo is a better buy
IMHO but you pays your money...

I would do this...

up to £200 Freud or Draper.. only 20 sovs between them at our local shop
£200 - £300 Metabo OFE1812 £250 from Rutland's
£300+ you've got too much money..lol or Porter Cable 19.2v cordless
router... (which is 299.95..lol ah well )

HTH IanJH

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:11:42 +0000 (UTC), "IanJH"
wrote:

up to £200 Freud or Draper.. only 20 sovs between them at our local shop
£200 - £300 Metabo OFE1812 £250 from Rutland's
£300+ you've got too much money..lol or Porter Cable 19.2v cordless
router... (which is 299.95..lol ah well )

The Trend T9 is on special offer at Rutland presently - £239.95
including carrying case and height adjuster. Includes VAT as well.

PoP

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:15:58 +0100, PoP
wrote:

The Trend T9 is on special offer at Rutland presently - £239.95
including carrying case and height adjuster.

And that's what's wrong with the T* series.

My main router is a Fred 2000, which I really like. A large part of
this is due to it having a well-thought out height adjuster. I don't
have to mess with bolt-ons and it works over the whole plunge depth.
Rather a contrast to the Elu 96 and all its derivations.

I just don't understand any router that doesn't have height adjustment
as a core part of the design.

--
Smert' spamionam

PoP wrote:
I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and
would appreciate suggestions.

Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a
commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?

The Trend is certainly nice - I like my T5. For the half inch I went for
the Freud FT2000E in the end. Plenty of power and good fine height
adjustment for use in a router table (where it spends most of its life!).

Still at a slight discount at Screwfix:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...17864&ts=18642

(Wickes do a badge engineered version of the Freud - but they charge
more for it than the current Screwfix price!)

--
Cheers,

John.

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On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 04:18:48 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

The Trend is certainly nice - I like my T5. For the half inch I went for
the Freud FT2000E in the end. Plenty of power and good fine height
adjustment for use in a router table (where it spends most of its life!).

Thanks for that - the price of the Freud is more attractive than the
Trend.

I have to admit to having blown 100 quid on a B&Q PPro 2000w router
recently:

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...55&CATID=62251

Gave it some work to do at the end of last week on a kitchen worktop.
It can't keep the speed of the router bit up (it is a sharp router
bit) even when cutting a thin channel. Doesn't hold the height at all
as you pass the router over the workpiece - it tends to pull into the
workpiece as you travel along, so the end result is a deeper channel
at the end than at the beginning. And after holding the trigger switch
in for just a couple of minutes my right hand was hurting bad.

I have no idea where the 2000w is going - but it sure as hell doesn't
come out the sharp end!

Absolute pile of ****e - don't be tempted!

PoP

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:20:47 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I have to admit to having blown 100 quid on a B&Q PPro 2000w router
recently:

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...55&CATID=62251




Gave it some work to do at the end of last week on a kitchen worktop.
It can't keep the speed of the router bit up (it is a sharp router
bit) even when cutting a thin channel. Doesn't hold the height at all
as you pass the router over the workpiece - it tends to pull into the
workpiece as you travel along, so the end result is a deeper channel
at the end than at the beginning. And after holding the trigger switch
in for just a couple of minutes my right hand was hurting bad.

I have no idea where the 2000w is going - but it sure as hell doesn't
come out the sharp end!

One would have an expectation that this 2000W router should behave
from the power perspective as well as any other.

I'd take it back as not fit for purpose.


Absolute pile of ****e - don't be tempted!

This is the second confirmation this weekend that PPro tools are junk
for any kind of worthwhile use, DIY or otherwise. Just because
something is DIY rated should not mean that it produces variations in
cut like this. More difficult set up and lack of smoothness perhaps,
but if the tool ends up producing shoddy work, then it's worthless for
any application unless of course one doesn't take pride in one's work.

I used to believe the old adage that a poor workman always blames his
tools, but in reality this is only partly true.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:13:02 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

One would have an expectation that this 2000W router should behave
from the power perspective as well as any other.

I'd take it back as not fit for purpose.

Under consideration for sure. Only problem is that it is now in used
condition - I forced it to complete the worktop job I was on because I
didn't have an alternative. B&Q will probably want to argue the toss
as a result.

I used to believe the old adage that a poor workman always blames his
tools, but in reality this is only partly true.

I come from the same school. In this case I was setting a particular
depth of cut so as not to put too much strain on the cutter or router,
starting cutting and finding that within a few tens of cm the router
had plunged itself deeper. And that was despite having pushed the
depth friction lock as far as possible into lock mode. Basically that
friction lock is pants.

The only way I could see for this router being kept at the prescribed
depth was to use the depth gauge as a stop - the depth gauge is
adjusted via a fairly usable height adjustment knob and then locked
into position - unlikely to move under pressure IMHO. However that's
not the way I expect decent routers to behave. My wish is to have a
router that will lock to a precise cutting depth and stay there come
what may.

It struggled big time with a half inch worktop cutter, no question
about it - if the router is truly 2050w (as in the instructions) then
a half inch router bit is going to be a doddle. And when you've got
one of these long (50mm) worktop cutters in the collet the damn thing
protudes by a good 6mm when retracted, and then doesn't plunge to the
full depth of the cutter! It only just cleared the depth of the
worktop at full depth. Now that definitely isn't the specification
that was sold.

I'm totally unimpressed by this PPro router. I had an ELU previously,
a decent piece of kit by anyones standards.

As I said before - pile of ****e, do not be tempted!

PoP

PoP wrote:
Under consideration for sure. Only problem is that it is now in used
condition - I forced it to complete the worktop job I was on because I
didn't have an alternative. B&Q will probably want to argue the toss
as a result.

Just be nice to them, you don't need to get into any long drawn out argument
"I'd like to return this" = "How would you like your refund?"
It is most unlikely they will even ask what's wrong with it.
Your reasons are valid and unrefutable.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:04:21 +0100, PoP
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:13:02 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

One would have an expectation that this 2000W router should behave
from the power perspective as well as any other.

I'd take it back as not fit for purpose.

Under consideration for sure. Only problem is that it is now in used
condition - I forced it to complete the worktop job I was on because I
didn't have an alternative. B&Q will probably want to argue the toss
as a result.


I regularly take things back to B&Q that are excess to requirements -
I usually buy more materials than I need for a job to avoid the waste
of time of a repeat visit. e.g. I needed some mastic to do some
improvement panelling work to the garage doors. The manufacturer's
usage rate suggested that 4 tubes would be needed. I bought 8, used
6 and returned 2.

I just keep an eye on the receipt dates and put excess materials in
the car in case I'm passing a B&Q when out and about.

Regarding duds I have never had any problem at all with B&Q, even when
a product has been used. Don't be afraid that you have - otherwise
how would you know that the product didn't do a proper job.
The faults that you describe are almost certainly inherent in the
product rather than a defect in your particular one.

I have had to educate customer service people in Focus and Homebase
about consumer law and avoid these companies unless it's for something
simple.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:13:02 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

I used to believe the old adage that a poor workman always blames his
tools, but in reality this is only partly true.

Yeah, and I used to as well, however I am not claiming to be a good
workman, just the best one I can be at any given moment. In recent
times, I've actually often blamed the designer or the maker depending
on who seems to fit the bill best, according to the fault I'm noticing
at the time!

I used a brand new ratchet wrench today, and I ended up blaming the
accountant at the makers, since it was probably pressure from them
which lead to a springy bit of swarf being used as a retainer instead
of the proper circlip which, had it been used (as the designer had
quite obviously intended), would not have required me to mend/replace
the damn thing with the passing of each bolt it was used to tighten!

You can take corner cutting just a bit too far sometimes, and this was
one of them! I bet they are not saving more than a hapenny per
thousand units frankly - it's just nuts - the quality of the chrome on
the other hand is just a little over the top for such a cheap set,
it's seriously good! Probably a fair bit stronger than the metal it's
applied to as well! ;O)

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:12:46 +0100, Gnube
wrote:

You can take corner cutting just a bit too far sometimes, and this was
one of them!

Problem is that a few years ago there was fat on the bone which could
be trimmed in most industries, but today that fat is gone and they are
into applying the chainsaw to the bone as a means to save a few extra
bucks.

Personally I'd prefer that they focussed on the packaging when you buy
tools or other goods - I really don't have any further use for the
bubble encapsulated screwdriver once I get it home.

PoP

PoP wrote:

Thanks for that - the price of the Freud is more attractive than the
Trend.

I have to admit to having blown 100 quid on a B&Q PPro 2000w router
recently:

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...55&CATID=62251

Gave it some work to do at the end of last week on a kitchen worktop.
It can't keep the speed of the router bit up (it is a sharp router
bit) even when cutting a thin channel. Doesn't hold the height at all
as you pass the router over the workpiece - it tends to pull into the
workpiece as you travel along, so the end result is a deeper channel
at the end than at the beginning. And after holding the trigger switch
in for just a couple of minutes my right hand was hurting bad.

Absolute pile of ****e - don't be tempted!

Must admit I looked at that one - glad I rejected it now ;-)

(I noted that the minimum speed was something like 15K RPM - far to fast
for safe use of a big cutter like a panel raising bit).

The Freud goes down to 8K RPM and also has a feedback speed control - so
that it maintains the selected RPM under load.

The plunge lock is very effective and the height adjustment is easy to
use as well. The only fault I can find (if you can call it that) is the
base plate liner is just made from plastic rather than the better
material (the name of which I forget) used to line the base of the trend.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:20:47 +0100, PoP
wrote:

I have to admit to having blown 100 quid on a B&Q PPro 2000w router
recently:

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...55&CATID=62251

Well, well, well.......

Took a walk thru the local town centre this morning. Passing by one of
those stack-em-high sell-em-cheap shops run by the local Indian or
Pakastini community (no offence intended - the shop is absolutely fine
- they sell a lot of useful DIY tools at very good prices).

They had a section in the window showing power tools. Stopped to take
a look, and there's the B&Q PPro router on display - for £34.99.

Different colour. And there's is labelled as 1200W - which is much
closer to the torque I experienced with the B&Q jobbie (labelled at
2050W). But physically, absolutely identical in every way. Badged by
Rolson:

http://www.rolsontools.com/index.htm

That router isn't shown on their web site, but it was definitely
badged as Rolson.

That Rolson router wouldn't be a bad buy for £34.99 for a mid-range
router. But not the £98.98 advertised by B&Q for a heavy duty router.

Beware!

PoP

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:06:34 +0100, PoP
wrote:

But physically, absolutely identical in every way. Badged by
Rolson:

How do you know ? Those lookalike tools hide a huge variation on
internal componentry. Take an AEG (the best), a Freud (adequate) and
a Draper (crap) router apart sometime and compare the innards. Yet the
external case is identical.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:46:33 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

How do you know ? Those lookalike tools hide a huge variation on
internal componentry. Take an AEG (the best), a Freud (adequate) and
a Draper (crap) router apart sometime and compare the innards. Yet the
external case is identical.

Physically the same for sure. Things like the fence - identical. The
dust extract - identical. Body shape - identical.

The £34.99 one had a 12mm collet. The B&Q variety was half inch. And
so on.

Obviously the internals might be a tad different. But as I said
previously, the B&Q version was most definitely not performing as a
2000W router should (I have several years experience of different
routers).

PoP

PoP wrote:

Different colour. And there's is labelled as 1200W - which is much
closer to the torque I experienced with the B&Q jobbie (labelled at
2050W). But physically, absolutely identical in every way. Badged by
Rolson:

It seems that router designs get re-used / re-badged by all sorts - it
can be rather difficult to say exactly who makes what. Many seem to be
of chinese origin.

That Rolson router wouldn't be a bad buy for £34.99 for a mid-range
router. But not the £98.98 advertised by B&Q for a heavy duty router.

I noticed that Makro had a new range of tools badged under the brand
"Budget". They would certainly seem to live upto the name on price (and
probably quality as well - but I did not stop to study them!). The 1/4"
router - design pretty much like NuTool etc. (i.e. mid sized rip off of
the original Elu design) was 14.95 + VAT!



--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

I recently bought the T9 which I got for the purpose of fitting worktops.
Only done one worktop joint so far but it handled that very well. I have
used the router with my dovetail jig and found the extra weight and size
more reassurring. Previously only used the small Bosch POF500A.

So far very pleased with my choice.

Eric

"PoP" wrote in message
...
I'm in the market for a decent router to use for kitchen worktops, and
would appreciate suggestions.

Looking at the Trend T9 as a possible option. Before I make a
commitment are there any others that I should seriously consider?

PoP

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:25:07 +0100, "Eric the Red"
wrote:

I recently bought the T9 which I got for the purpose of fitting worktops.
Only done one worktop joint so far but it handled that very well. I have
used the router with my dovetail jig and found the extra weight and size
more reassurring. Previously only used the small Bosch POF500A.

So far very pleased with my choice.

After reviewing all of the helpful replies to this thread I decided to
go with the Trend T9. I could have saved a few quid going for one of
the other alternatives mentioned, but I'm looking on this as a
lifetime investment - if it can see me through the next 15 years or so
then I'm into bus pass territory.

In case anyone else might be looking to compare different routers the
D&M web site has a helpful page where you can compare like with like:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/comp...=&type=routers

To find that page in the future, find a router of interest, and on
that routers detail page is a link to the comparison table.

PoP

PoP wrote:

In case anyone else might be looking to compare different routers the
D&M web site has a helpful page where you can compare like with like:

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/comp...=&type=routers

To find that page in the future, find a router of interest, and on
that routers detail page is a link to the comparison table.

Alas the table seems a bit inaccurate as far as I can tell. The Freud
has a fine height adjuster and soft start for example - not listed in
the table. The T5 also has soft start... and so on. Hence there may be
erros in the specs for the others - but since I don't own them I can't
say ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

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