I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it grrr..).

As it is clearly a very 'oily' wood I'm wondering if PVA is actually
the best solution? Anyone any ideas?

TIA

On 2007-12-02 11:40:45 +0000, said:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it grrr..).

As it is clearly a very 'oily' wood I'm wondering if PVA is actually
the best solution? Anyone any ideas?

TIA

Removing the oil with acetone is recommended immediately before gluing
and then an epoxy glue

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:50:26 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-12-02 11:40:45 +0000, said:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it grrr..).

As it is clearly a very 'oily' wood I'm wondering if PVA is actually
the best solution? Anyone any ideas?

TIA

Removing the oil with acetone is recommended immediately before gluing
and then an epoxy glue


So would araldite be OK ??

wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:50:26 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:
On 2007-12-02 11:40:45 +0000, said:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it grrr..).

As it is clearly a very 'oily' wood I'm wondering if PVA is actually
the best solution? Anyone any ideas?

TIA

Removing the oil with acetone is recommended immediately before gluing
and then an epoxy glue


So would araldite be OK ??

PVA is not recommended for apps where failure would cause
significant risk, such as a chair. Araldite is a good deal stronger
setting than araldite rapid, the quick set sacrifices a lot of
strength.


NT

Removing the oil with acetone is recommended immediately before gluing
and then an epoxy glue

Excellent advice.

So would araldite be OK ??

West System is widely used in the marine industry and one of the best
epoxy products about:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-W...Kit-364830.htm

The initial mix will be a much lower viscosity than araldite, so it
can be "painted" onto the bonding surfaces then all the excess glue
effectively squeezed out - giving the strongest possible and least
visible glue joint.

On 2007-12-02 11:56:20 +0000, said:

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:50:26 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-12-02 11:40:45 +0000, said:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it grrr..).

As it is clearly a very 'oily' wood I'm wondering if PVA is actually
the best solution? Anyone any ideas?

TIA

Removing the oil with acetone is recommended immediately before gluing
and then an epoxy glue


So would araldite be OK ??

There are various types, so a check with the manufacturer would be a good idea.

Another option is polyurethane glue such as Gorilla glue or Titebond
III. These need careful clamping

wrote:


The initial mix will be a much lower viscosity than araldite, so it
can be "painted" onto the bonding surfaces then all the excess glue
effectively squeezed out - giving the strongest possible and least
visible glue joint.


With care though, as unlike with PVA, you can squeeze too much epoxy out
of the joint. West System is good stuff.

A light sanding is supposed to be more effective than an acetone wipe,
according to some bloke in FWW who did a test a year or two ago. Epoxy
gave the best results in his tests, but there wasn't that much wrong
with either PVA or PU, IIRC.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-12-02 11:56:20 +0000, said:

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 11:50:26 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-12-02 11:40:45 +0000, said:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it
grrr..). As it is clearly a very 'oily' wood I'm wondering if PVA is
actually the best solution? Anyone any ideas?

TIA

Removing the oil with acetone is recommended immediately before
gluing and then an epoxy glue


So would araldite be OK ??

There are various types, so a check with the manufacturer would be a
good idea.
Another option is polyurethane glue such as Gorilla glue or Titebond
III. These need careful clamping

Thats the way I would go, acetone & Titebond 111. Polyurethane glue is easy
to get off timber afterwards but a right bugger to get off your hands.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

A light sanding is supposed to be more effective than an acetone wipe,
according to some bloke in FWW who did a test a year or two ago. Epoxy
gave the best results in his tests, but there wasn't that much wrong
with either PVA or PU, IIRC.

Sanding may be good for surface contaminants, but I'm not sure it
would improve glue bonding to a naturally oily wood like teak.

I agree about polyurethane glues, but (as Andy already said) it's
absolutely essential to very firmly clamp the surfaces together as it
goes off.

PVA - it's convenient, easy to use, easy to clear up - but nowhere
near the equal of polyurethanes or epoxies.

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:44:54 +0000, Bolted
wrote:

A light sanding is supposed to be more effective than an acetone wipe,
according to some bloke in FWW who did a test a year or two ago.

F W Woolworth?

--
Frank Erskine

wrote:
Sanding may be good for surface contaminants, but I'm not sure it
would improve glue bonding to a naturally oily wood like teak.

I'm just reporting the results of some bloke's empirical test, in which
he found that sanding with a fine grit improved the bond, and acetone
did nothing. I haven't done one myself.

wrote:

PVA is not recommended for apps where failure would cause
significant risk, such as a chair.

As a good PVA joint is stronger than the wood itself, this rather
suggests that wood should not be used for chairs.

Frank Erskine wrote:

F W Woolworth?

Sorry, Fine WoodWorking, a US woodie mag.

On 2007-12-02 14:41:25 +0000, Frank Erskine
said:

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:44:54 +0000, Bolted
wrote:

A light sanding is supposed to be more effective than an acetone wipe,
according to some bloke in FWW who did a test a year or two ago.

F W Woolworth?

Oh no.... Fine Woodworking. A very good publication even though it
does originate from Septica.

On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:40:45 +0000, wrote:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it grrr..).

PVA will "work", but not to the strength you're likely to need in a
chair (do you need it to be capable of kid's step-ladder duty
afterwards?)

De-oiling teak is snake oil. It makes a big difference for hide glue,
but the joint is still weak. It makes little difference to PVA. The real
improvement comes from simply using a glue such as epoxy or PU that
doesn't care whether it's oily or not.

PU is over-rated crap and has no place in furniture making. You're
forever fighting against it: it's either foaming everywhere you don't
want, or it's turning out to be uselessly weak because there was the
slightest gap in it. The problem of overspill alone is enough to rule
out PU on furniture.

Your best option is epoxy (this is true for a lot of structural
woodworking). Don't use Araldite as it's too viscous (and too
expensive!). Instead treat yourself to a West System sampler pack
(about 15 quid from Axminster). This is a _real_ epoxy, of good quality.
It's a low viscosity resin to begin with, and it's unthickened. This
makes it far more useful overall than two-tube mixes like Araldite
(standard or rapid). Every uk.d-i-y reader ought to have one of these
kits - I use about one a year. The various filler powders are worth
trying out too, but not for this job.


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 02 Dec 2007 11:40:45 +0000, wrote:

I'm repairing a solid teak dining chair and was planning to use
regular PVA wood glue to fix a split stave (child stood on it
grrr..).

PVA will "work", but not to the strength you're likely to need in a
chair (do you need it to be capable of kid's step-ladder duty
afterwards?)

De-oiling teak is snake oil. It makes a big difference for hide glue,
but the joint is still weak. It makes little difference to PVA. The
real improvement comes from simply using a glue such as epoxy or PU
that doesn't care whether it's oily or not.

PU is over-rated crap and has no place in furniture making. You're
forever fighting against it: it's either foaming everywhere you don't
want, or it's turning out to be uselessly weak because there was the
slightest gap in it. The problem of overspill alone is enough to rule
out PU on furniture.

Hi Andy

Interested in your opinion. I have used PU several times to sovle a
embuggerance problem & its saved my arris. Granted it foams all over the
place, but when dry that scrapes off pretty well.

I like it a lot, so could you elaborate on your experiences please?

SNIP
Instead treat yourself to a West System sampler pack
(about 15 quid from Axminster).

I'll take your advice & get one next time I pop into Axminster
Sittingbourne.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:20:37 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Interested in your opinion. I have used PU several times to sovle a
embuggerance problem & its saved my arris. Granted it foams all over the
place, but when dry that scrapes off pretty well.

I like it a lot, so could you elaborate on your experiences please?

First of all, you're right about the scraping. Dry scraping after curing
works a lot better than any atempt at wet cleanup. Even then though,
you're not going to do this cleanly on something that already has a
finish on it (i.e. furniture repairs). With the foaming behaviour of PU,
even using a low-foam glue and working it to reduce foaming, you _will_
get some overspill.

For carpentry, rather than joinery or cabinetry, I've also been
disappointed with it. The main problem is short service life - give it a
year or two and things are wobbling. Whether this is stress cycling or
UV failure I'm never sure, but I've just lost faith in trusting it
long-term. Gap-filling performance is useless, to a level that would
require excess care when cutting mortices. If there's any sort of gap
involved, the joint is too weak to survive. I can fill gaps with
Titebond (and that's no gap filler) that just don't work with PU.


Instead treat yourself to a West System sampler pack
(about 15 quid from Axminster).

The fillers are worth having too. I use a lot of mine mixed with either
microballoons (if I want to sand / scrape it) or fibres.

wrote:
A light sanding is supposed to be more effective than an acetone wipe,
according to some bloke in FWW who did a test a year or two ago. Epoxy
gave the best results in his tests, but there wasn't that much wrong
with either PVA or PU, IIRC.

Sanding may be good for surface contaminants, but I'm not sure it
would improve glue bonding to a naturally oily wood like teak.

I agree about polyurethane glues, but (as Andy already said) it's
absolutely essential to very firmly clamp the surfaces together as it
goes off.

PVA - it's convenient, easy to use, easy to clear up - but nowhere
near the equal of polyurethanes or epoxies.

A recent test in FWW, showed the surprising result that poly glues were
in general poor compared to PVA based ones for most applications.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/