I am about to embark on a spending spree as SWMBO wants something done
that requires a bit more kit than have.

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge on
first..then use the moulding cutter..

Any comments gratefully accepted.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am about to embark on a spending spree as SWMBO wants something done
that requires a bit more kit than have.

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge on
first..then use the moulding cutter..

Any comments gratefully accepted.

==================================
If you've got a decent pillar drill you could try this technique.

I made some round pattresses and a ceiling light surround a few years ago.
I used my bench drill with a contiboard table mounted on the metal table
of the drill. I use a single piece of 2" x 1" timber (expendable) as a
fence so any size of router bit can cut its own working recess.

The circular pieces were first cut roughly by hand and then fixed to the
table with a dowel and rotated against a rotating straight router bit to
give a perfect circle. This will only work with circular items - other
curves would need to be cut on a accurate bandsaw or otherwise suitably
prepared.

The decorative rebates were then cut by feeding the work piece against the
fence with the router bit recessed into the fence.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

What sort of diameters are we talking about here?

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

The router table is ok, although I expect if I were buying again I would
probably get the bits from Axminster and make my own...

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

How many are you making?

Generally cutting your blank to the correct outline first is easier, and
then you can run whatever profile cutter you want round it. If it is a
one off then you could simply mark your shape on the job, jigsaw round a
little wide of the line and sand to final shape. Alternatively make a
template in the same way to follow with either a guide bush or a
template following cutter.

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge on
first..then use the moulding cutter..

If you need to do lots of them, then buy/make a ellipse following jig
for the router, and use it to cut the shapes directly, then edge mould
as a separate operation.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas..._Ellipses.html

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Cicero wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am about to embark on a spending spree as SWMBO wants something done
that requires a bit more kit than have.

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge on
first..then use the moulding cutter..

Any comments gratefully accepted.

==================================
If you've got a decent pillar drill you could try this technique.


No drill...

I made some round pattresses and a ceiling light surround a few years ago.
I used my bench drill with a contiboard table mounted on the metal table
of the drill. I use a single piece of 2" x 1" timber (expendable) as a
fence so any size of router bit can cut its own working recess.

The circular pieces were first cut roughly by hand and then fixed to the
table with a dowel and rotated against a rotating straight router bit to
give a perfect circle. This will only work with circular items - other
curves would need to be cut on a accurate bandsaw or otherwise suitably
prepared.

No bandsaw either ;-)


Jigsaw and hard work.


The decorative rebates were then cut by feeding the work piece against the
fence with the router bit recessed into the fence.

works on convex: this is concave.

Cic.

John Rumm wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

What sort of diameters are we talking about here?

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the
first and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table,
and an 'elegant mould' cutter..

The router table is ok, although I expect if I were buying again I would
probably get the bits from Axminster and make my own...

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0


But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

How many are you making?

Of this shape just one. Its a (internally) profiled architrave to go on
an alcove opening, now lined with oak..

But I expect to do a lot more other stuff - straight mouldings - if this
works. Wood panelling and bookcases etc.




Generally cutting your blank to the correct outline first is easier, and
then you can run whatever profile cutter you want round it. If it is a
one off then you could simply mark your shape on the job, jigsaw round a
little wide of the line and sand to final shape.

Yes. I thought that would be the way..
Alternatively make a
template in the same way to follow with either a guide bush or a
template following cutter.

Yes. Question is how likely I am to screw up the one and only piece of
shaped oak..OTOH the template itself has to be screwed to the oak..not nice.

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge
on first..then use the moulding cutter..

If you need to do lots of them, then buy/make a ellipse following jig
for the router, and use it to cut the shapes directly, then edge mould
as a separate operation.


Nice jig, but not worth it for just one off

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas..._Ellipses.html


Many thanks John.

I had a problem in thinking about cutting all the stuff in one go, but
realised that essentially the router can be lowered to do a little at a
time - he guide bearing will always find 'mew wood' to rest against.


My experience has been on full sized able routers with jigs before, or
hand held against a guide..first time setting up a hobby style router n
a table, so just after accumulated expertise.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:14:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Cicero wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am about to embark on a spending spree as SWMBO wants something done
that requires a bit more kit than have.

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge
on first..then use the moulding cutter..

Any comments gratefully accepted.

==================================
If you've got a decent pillar drill you could try this technique.


No drill...

I made some round pattresses and a ceiling light surround a few years
ago. I used my bench drill with a contiboard table mounted on the metal
table of the drill. I use a single piece of 2" x 1" timber (expendable)
as a fence so any size of router bit can cut its own working recess.

The circular pieces were first cut roughly by hand and then fixed to the
table with a dowel and rotated against a rotating straight router bit to
give a perfect circle. This will only work with circular items - other
curves would need to be cut on a accurate bandsaw or otherwise suitably
prepared.

No bandsaw either ;-)


Jigsaw and hard work.


The decorative rebates were then cut by feeding the work piece against
the fence with the router bit recessed into the fence.

works on convex: this is concave.

==================================
I think it does work on concave also - I'll have to try it sometime. But
the point is really quite academic since you haven't got a suitable drill.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

How many are you making?

Of this shape just one. Its a (internally) profiled architrave to go on
an alcove opening, now lined with oak..

But I expect to do a lot more other stuff - straight mouldings - if this
works. Wood panelling and bookcases etc.

Alternatively make a
template in the same way to follow with either a guide bush or a
template following cutter.

Yes. Question is how likely I am to screw up the one and only piece of
shaped oak..OTOH the template itself has to be screwed to the oak..not
nice.

The template can be screwed to the *back* of the oak, or carpet taped in
place, of for that matter just clamped in some cases, trapping the work
between template and bench.

Generally doing a decorative edge with a bearing guided cutter is pretty
easy if you take your time. If working on small strips of wood freehand
then it is worth adding a packer behind the strip to give you a bigger
flat surface to rest the router on. Obviously not so much problem in a
table.

I had a problem in thinking about cutting all the stuff in one go, but
realised that essentially the router can be lowered to do a little at a
time - he guide bearing will always find 'mew wood' to rest against.

Yup, if starting with a top bearing and template. You can always place
scrap packers under your template to increase the distance from template
to work. That will let you do a shallow enough cut the first couple of
passes without needing a thick template. Failing that make a template
out of 19mm mdf etc and then it is easy since you have plenty of
template to follow.

A template for a guide bush is simpler still, although you need to allow
for the template to cutter offset in the template.

My experience has been on full sized able routers with jigs before, or
hand held against a guide..first time setting up a hobby style router n
a table, so just after accumulated expertise.

If you fit it with a "lift" it makes taking successive passes easy, as
does having a router with a nice easy to grab fine height adjuster.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Cicero wrote:

works on convex: this is concave.

==================================
I think it does work on concave also - I'll have to try it sometime. But
the point is really quite academic since you haven't got a suitable drill.

You can use a lead on pin in place of the fence for concave work.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Cicero wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am about to embark on a spending spree as SWMBO wants something done
that requires a bit more kit than have.

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge on
first..then use the moulding cutter..

Any comments gratefully accepted.

==================================
If you've got a decent pillar drill you could try this technique.

I made some round pattresses and a ceiling light surround a few years ago.
I used my bench drill with a contiboard table mounted on the metal table
of the drill. I use a single piece of 2" x 1" timber (expendable) as a
fence so any size of router bit can cut its own working recess.

The circular pieces were first cut roughly by hand and then fixed to the
table with a dowel and rotated against a rotating straight router bit to
give a perfect circle. This will only work with circular items - other
curves would need to be cut on a accurate bandsaw or otherwise suitably
prepared.

The decorative rebates were then cut by feeding the work piece against the
fence with the router bit recessed into the fence.

Cic.

A small word of caution. The chuck on a pillar drill is normally held on
a morse taper with no drawbar to hold it in place. Side loads from
routing will eventually free the morse taper; the chuck + router bit
will then either chase after your fingers or just fall down onto the
work. It isn't safe to apply side loads to pillar drills - use a router
instead.

Dave

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:48:28 +0000, NoSpam wrote:

Cicero wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am about to embark on a spending spree as SWMBO wants something done
that requires a bit more kit than have.

Basically I need to rout a nice moulding onto an elliptical bit of -
let's call it architrave..

Material is seasoned oak, 19mm planed.

There will be other bit to be done later as well, but this is the first
and most difficult bit.

I have an old but good ELU router, think its a 1/2" shaft..

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/product.asp?numRecordPosition=20&P_ID=34818&strPag eHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=1273213 0

But I am unsure as to whether this is all a good idea, and whether a
bearing guided cutter is the way to go. Or if i should cut a template
and use a ring guide on the table..

I guess for a one off its as easy to gut the curve into the oak
first..with a jigsaw and hand sanding..OTOH it might be easier to cut
thin MDF for a template..start with a straight cutter to get the edge
on first..then use the moulding cutter..

Any comments gratefully accepted.

==================================
If you've got a decent pillar drill you could try this technique.

I made some round pattresses and a ceiling light surround a few years
ago. I used my bench drill with a contiboard table mounted on the metal
table of the drill. I use a single piece of 2" x 1" timber (expendable)
as a fence so any size of router bit can cut its own working recess.

The circular pieces were first cut roughly by hand and then fixed to the
table with a dowel and rotated against a rotating straight router bit to
give a perfect circle. This will only work with circular items - other
curves would need to be cut on a accurate bandsaw or otherwise suitably
prepared.

The decorative rebates were then cut by feeding the work piece against
the fence with the router bit recessed into the fence.

Cic.

A small word of caution. The chuck on a pillar drill is normally held on a
morse taper with no drawbar to hold it in place. Side loads from routing
will eventually free the morse taper; the chuck + router bit will then
either chase after your fingers or just fall down onto the work. It isn't
safe to apply side loads to pillar drills - use a router instead.

Dave
==================================
Thanks for that advice. I'm aware that this isn't an orthodox use of my
drill but I have actually been using it intermittently as a router for
about 20 years without mishap. The weak point (on mine at least) is that
the drill head is held in position on the pillar by a rather puny grub
screw which has occasionally allowed the drill head to swing around,
fortunately without causing any damage.

I keep promising myself that I will one day make a proper overhead stand
to carry a conventional router as I find this method of working much
easier than other methods.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:46:00 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Cicero wrote:

works on convex: this is concave.

==================================
I think it does work on concave also - I'll have to try it sometime. But
the point is really quite academic since you haven't got a suitable
drill.

You can use a lead on pin in place of the fence for concave work.

==================================
Yes, I saw this method being used once by the famous Norm Abrahams. I
think in my set-up it might be a case of moving the fence to the outer
edge of the table and making sure that there's enough free space around
the drill.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Any comments gratefully accepted.


The only thing I'd add to the comments already is that SEASONED oak can
be very very hard. Ancient Oak, e.g. old pub ceiling beams, can be like
rock. Small light cuts recommended, and the biggest shank bit your
machine will take. As in all things like this: practise on a bit that
won't show first.

Your ELU will be better than anything you can buy today.

R.

John Rumm wrote:
Cicero wrote:

works on convex: this is concave.

==================================
I think it does work on concave also - I'll have to try it sometime. But
the point is really quite academic since you haven't got a suitable
drill.

You can use a lead on pin in place of the fence for concave work.

Ah..interesting point that.

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:50:41 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Any comments gratefully accepted.


The only thing I'd add to the comments already is that SEASONED oak can
be very very hard. Ancient Oak, e.g. old pub ceiling beams, can be like
rock. Small light cuts recommended, and the biggest shank bit your
machine will take. As in all things like this: practise on a bit that
won't show first.

Your ELU will be better than anything you can buy today.


The oak is kiln dried and planed..its not TOO bad. No problem cutting
with normal saws.

Will definitely be doing a small pass at a time though.

R.

On 2007-11-28 13:34:39 +0000, John Rumm said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

The router table is ok, although I expect if I were buying again I
would probably get the bits from Axminster and make my own...


I've got one of these gathering dust in the roofspace of my workshop.

TBH, it's OK for small work and I think safe with a largeish cutter.
The problem is with working with large pieces of material. The
support on infeed and outfeed is not enough on the table itself for the
kind of weight and manipulation of a large piece of oak. I would say
this size of table is reasonable for doing panel raising for say a
kitchen cupboard door or for machining of a longer piece of fairly
light material.

Once one has added extra supports etc to be able to handle a larger
piece of material, I think that a router table insert let into a piece
of worktop or something along thos lines would be much better and
easier to use.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-11-28 13:34:39 +0000, John Rumm
said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table,
and an 'elegant mould' cutter..

The router table is ok, although I expect if I were buying again I
would probably get the bits from Axminster and make my own...


I've got one of these gathering dust in the roofspace of my workshop.

TBH, it's OK for small work and I think safe with a largeish cutter.
The problem is with working with large pieces of material. The
support on infeed and outfeed is not enough on the table itself for the
kind of weight and manipulation of a large piece of oak. I would say
this size of table is reasonable for doing panel raising for say a
kitchen cupboard door or for machining of a longer piece of fairly light
material.

Once one has added extra supports etc to be able to handle a larger
piece of material, I think that a router table insert let into a piece
of worktop or something along thos lines would be much better and easier
to use.



I take the point. Normally when you do long bits you use a fence and
spindle moulder, but it should be big enough with its 'ears' on for what
I want - about 600x400mm.

And a couple of 1500 long bits..and a mate can always hold the other end
of the stuff down on longer runs. The oak is basically door board T&G
stock. - picked up a loads of rejects ..

On 2007-11-28 19:56:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-11-28 13:34:39 +0000, John Rumm said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My thoughts have been along getting a Trend Craftsman router table, and
an 'elegant mould' cutter..

The router table is ok, although I expect if I were buying again I
would probably get the bits from Axminster and make my own...


I've got one of these gathering dust in the roofspace of my workshop.

TBH, it's OK for small work and I think safe with a largeish cutter.
The problem is with working with large pieces of material. The
support on infeed and outfeed is not enough on the table itself for the
kind of weight and manipulation of a large piece of oak. I would say
this size of table is reasonable for doing panel raising for say a
kitchen cupboard door or for machining of a longer piece of fairly
light material.

Once one has added extra supports etc to be able to handle a larger
piece of material, I think that a router table insert let into a piece
of worktop or something along thos lines would be much better and
easier to use.



I take the point. Normally when you do long bits you use a fence and
spindle moulder, but it should be big enough with its 'ears' on for
what I want - about 600x400mm.

The main part is an aluminium casting of some kind whereas the little
tables are only bent steel sheet.


And a couple of 1500 long bits..and a mate can always hold the other
end of the stuff down on longer runs. The oak is basically door board
T&G stock. - picked up a loads of rejects ..

One thing that you can do here is to screw the table to a board and
then clamp that thoroughly to something heavy. Obviously you don't
want it to tip. Then the other aspect is to avoid the board
vibrating and causing chattering against the bit.