My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence, fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark, but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty, or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence, fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark, but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty, or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be helpful.

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence,
fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark, but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty, or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be
helpful.



Sorry, it is a Ravenheat RSF 82E. The pilot jet, holey outer holder thingy
and pipe are clear - the pilot jet nozzle is a small brass hollow bullet
thingy with 2 pin holes in it.

Bob

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence,
fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark,
but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty,
or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be
helpful.



Sorry, it is a Ravenheat RSF 82E. The pilot jet, holey outer holder
thingy
and pipe are clear - the pilot jet nozzle is a small brass hollow bullet
thingy with 2 pin holes in it.

Bob


Go here Bob. http://www.ravenheat.co.uk/Installationmanuals.htm
Click on installation manual for your model.
Go to fault finding chart (page 40 or so I think)
Should find what you are looking for here.

In message , Bob Smith
writes
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence, fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark, but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty, or
could something else cause it?

Has someone dropped a bag on the main stop cock lever ?

I've made that successful diagnosis twice this year and it happened to a
neighbour last year, so it's not that uncommon

(Do you have any other gas appliances - are they working or not )


OR

are you sure that it's the GV solenoid and not the relay on the pcb ?

(test the resistance of the solenoid and whether you have volts to the
solenoid, - or the plunger could be stuck, 'it it wirra 'ammer)

OR

you might have some crud which has dropped into it

take a look


--
geoff

In message , Heliotrope
Smith writes

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
.. .
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence, fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark, but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty, or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be helpful.

This is one case where I don't think the make and model are at all
relevant

--
geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: "geoff"
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:33 PM
Subject: Boiler not lighting


In message , Bob Smith
writes
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence, fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark, but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty, or
could something else cause it?

Has someone dropped a bag on the main stop cock lever ?

I've made that successful diagnosis twice this year and it happened to a
neighbour last year, so it's not that uncommon

(Do you have any other gas appliances - are they working or not )


Gas cooker working fine, full blast roaring flames...


OR

are you sure that it's the GV solenoid and not the relay on the pcb ?

(test the resistance of the solenoid and whether you have volts to the
solenoid, - or the plunger could be stuck, 'it it wirra 'ammer)


Will have to borrow a volt counter from work, but I am pretty sure the gas
valve is going - it is a big CLUNK - when I take the blue relay box off, I
get the little relay click and no CLUNK.

OR

you might have some crud which has dropped into it

take a look


Got into it how? Through the gas pipe? Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


--
geoff

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence,
fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark,
but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot
light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty,
or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be
helpful.



Sorry, it is a Ravenheat RSF 82E. The pilot jet, holey outer holder
thingy
and pipe are clear - the pilot jet nozzle is a small brass hollow bullet
thingy with 2 pin holes in it.

Bob


Go here Bob. http://www.ravenheat.co.uk/Installationmanuals.htm
Click on installation manual for your model.
Go to fault finding chart (page 40 or so I think)
Should find what you are looking for here.


The flowchart leads me to the gas valve (assuming I have 230V on the gas
valve - the CLUNK gives me confidence it has). I used the flow chart before
when I was having wierd intermittent not lighting problems, and it did not
help (different part of light up cycle this time). When I replaced the
ignition board (in the blue box) that fixed it. The "replace ignition
board" boxes on the flowchart could not be reached by answering the
questions correctly!

So could the gas valve be clunking but a vital part inside not be moving?

Bob

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Heliotrope Smith
writes

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
. ..
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence,
fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark,
but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty,
or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be
helpful.

This is one case where I don't think the make and model are at all
relevant

I think he was asking so he could point me at the flowchart (I already have
the manual printed out, spiral bound and living in the airing cupboard)

Bob

In message , Heliotrope
Smith writes

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Bob Smith" wrote in message
...
My boiler has stopped lighting - it goes thhrough the normal sequence,
fan
on, click of pressure valve, clunk of gas solenoid, ticking of spark,
but
nothing happens.

I took the front off, and there is no gas coming out of the pilot light
nozzle while the spark is ticking. Is it possible for the gas valve
solenoid to go clunk but no gas to come out? Is the gas valve faulty,
or
could something else cause it?

TIA

Bob


Sounds like blocked pilot jet but make and model of boiler would be
helpful.



Sorry, it is a Ravenheat RSF 82E. The pilot jet, holey outer holder
thingy
and pipe are clear - the pilot jet nozzle is a small brass hollow bullet
thingy with 2 pin holes in it.

Bob


Go here Bob. http://www.ravenheat.co.uk/Installationmanuals.htm
Click on installation manual for your model.
Go to fault finding chart (page 40 or so I think)
Should find what you are looking for here.


Really, you don't need a fault finding chart for this, while a manual
might be useful to him, teh solution should be easy to find, you're just
clouding the issue

--
geoff

In message , Bob Smith
writes
are you sure that it's the GV solenoid and not the relay on the pcb ?

(test the resistance of the solenoid and whether you have volts to the
solenoid, - or the plunger could be stuck, 'it it wirra 'ammer)


Will have to borrow a volt counter from work, but I am pretty sure the gas
valve is going - it is a big CLUNK - when I take the blue relay box off, I
get the little relay click and no CLUNK.

have you not used it for a while? The slug might be moving but the
rubber seal sticking

I was serious about whacking it


OR

you might have some crud which has dropped into it

take a look


Got into it how?

dropped off the heat exchanger

Through the gas pipe? Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no


I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a
bit and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas
valve

--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes
are you sure that it's the GV solenoid and not the relay on the pcb ?

(test the resistance of the solenoid and whether you have volts to the
solenoid, - or the plunger could be stuck, 'it it wirra 'ammer)


Will have to borrow a volt counter from work, but I am pretty sure the gas
valve is going - it is a big CLUNK - when I take the blue relay box off, I
get the little relay click and no CLUNK.

have you not used it for a while? The slug might be moving but the rubber
seal sticking

I was serious about whacking it


OR

you might have some crud which has dropped into it

take a look


Got into it how?

dropped off the heat exchanger

Through the gas pipe? Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too dangerous to
reuse?



I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are
inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a bit
and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas valve

OK, will get volt counter today from work.

I have already tapped it a few times in different directions. Should I hit
it really hard? Is there an optimum direction (I was thinking of along the
axis of travel), or should I give it a beating from all directions?

Bob

In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too dangerous to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?




I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are
inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a bit
and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas valve

OK, will get volt counter today from work.

I have already tapped it a few times in different directions. Should I hit
it really hard? Is there an optimum direction (I was thinking of along the
axis of travel), or should I give it a beating from all directions?

basically what can happen if a valve hasn't been used for a while is
that the rubber seal can stick to the housing - this is what you are
trying to see if you can dislodge

--
geoff

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:35:36 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too dangerous to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?

An extract from the (as yet unpublished) Boiler Repair FAQ on the subject
of gas valves.

This is a genuine €œno user serviceable parts inside€� piece of kit . Now
let's be clear about this. There are no user serviceable parts inside.
There are no professionally serviceable parts inside. There are no diy
serviceable parts inside. In fact there are no serviceable parts inside
even on Christmas eve. They cost less than £100, they do not need
replacing very often if ever in the life of the boiler.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too dangerous
to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?




I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are
inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a
bit
and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas valve

OK, will get volt counter today from work.

I have already tapped it a few times in different directions. Should I
hit
it really hard? Is there an optimum direction (I was thinking of along
the
axis of travel), or should I give it a beating from all directions?

basically what can happen if a valve hasn't been used for a while is that
the rubber seal can stick to the housing - this is what you are trying to
see if you can dislodge


It has been in use over the summer for hot water, and for the last month for
CH. When it stopped working, the rads were warm, and it was noticed that
the hot tap was not getting hot (so it died on active duty).

Can the metal chunk that is moved by the solenoid break off whatever it is
connected to and therefore still move and leave the valve shut?

Bob

In message , Ed Sirett
writes
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:35:36 +0000, geoff wrote:

In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too dangerous to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?

An extract from the (as yet unpublished) Boiler Repair FAQ on the subject
of gas valves.

This is a genuine €œno user serviceable parts inside€� piece of kit . Now
let's be clear about this. There are no user serviceable parts inside.
There are no professionally serviceable parts inside. There are no diy
serviceable parts inside. In fact there are no serviceable parts inside
even on Christmas eve. They cost less than £100, they do not need
replacing very often if ever in the life of the boiler.


Yeah, I'd go along with that


--
geoff

In message , Bob Smith
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too dangerous
to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?




I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are
inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a
bit
and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas valve

OK, will get volt counter today from work.

I have already tapped it a few times in different directions. Should I
hit
it really hard? Is there an optimum direction (I was thinking of along
the
axis of travel), or should I give it a beating from all directions?

basically what can happen if a valve hasn't been used for a while is that
the rubber seal can stick to the housing - this is what you are trying to
see if you can dislodge


It has been in use over the summer for hot water, and for the last month for
CH. When it stopped working, the rads were warm, and it was noticed that
the hot tap was not getting hot (so it died on active duty).

Then the answer is, I think, it's ****ed Jim


--
geoff

On 12 Oct, 21:55, Ed Sirett wrote:

This is a genuine "no user serviceable parts inside" piece of kit . Now
let's be clear about this. There are no user serviceable parts inside.
There are no professionally serviceable parts inside. There are no diy
serviceable parts inside. In fact there are no serviceable parts inside
even on Christmas eve.

Why are they not serviceable? Serious question. I've encountered very
few things which really, truly were unrepairable, and those were
almost all electronic. What makes a relatively simple device like an
electromechanical gas valve unrepairable?

Ian

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too
dangerous
to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?




I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are
inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check
that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a
bit
and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas valve

OK, will get volt counter today from work.

I have already tapped it a few times in different directions. Should I
hit
it really hard? Is there an optimum direction (I was thinking of along
the
axis of travel), or should I give it a beating from all directions?

basically what can happen if a valve hasn't been used for a while is
that
the rubber seal can stick to the housing - this is what you are trying
to
see if you can dislodge


It has been in use over the summer for hot water, and for the last month
for
CH. When it stopped working, the rads were warm, and it was noticed that
the hot tap was not getting hot (so it died on active duty).

Then the answer is, I think, it's ****ed Jim


It looks like I have to go all the way to the other side of Morley to get a
new one then. That's 10 minutes of my life I won't get back, heh. Better
call in somewhere to get some hawk white and clear tube to make a manometer
(already got ptfe for the threaded connectors).

Bob

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:18:12 -0700, The Real Doctor wrote:

On 12 Oct, 21:55, Ed Sirett wrote:

This is a genuine "no user serviceable parts inside" piece of kit . Now
let's be clear about this. There are no user serviceable parts inside.
There are no professionally serviceable parts inside. There are no diy
serviceable parts inside. In fact there are no serviceable parts inside
even on Christmas eve.

Why are they not serviceable? Serious question. I've encountered very
few things which really, truly were unrepairable, and those were
almost all electronic. What makes a relatively simple device like an
electromechanical gas valve unrepairable?

Whilst I'm with you in spirit I plead a special case for this component.

1) There are likely to be rubber diaphragms and seals which even when new
were vulnerable to damage. Some are more on the lines of a condom than a
car tyre. These parts are now even more suspect to
failing as the valve has failed (else why would you be opening it up).

2) You need a way of verifying that the valve is working 100% after
reassembly, a valve which lets by could have a lot of nasty consequences,
one which I saw like that could have lead to a CO poisoning incident.

3) You may well find the culprit is a damaged/worn rubber component.
Whilst O-rings, washers and springs are generic components diaphragms
aren't. There is no source of supply for these sub-unit spares.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On 13 Oct, 13:55, Ed Sirett wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:18:12 -0700, The Real Doctor wrote:

Why are they not serviceable? Serious question. I've encountered very
few things which really, truly were unrepairable, and those were
almost all electronic. What makes a relatively simple device like an
electromechanical gas valve unrepairable?

Whilst I'm with you in spirit I plead a special case for this component.

I'm convinced!

Ian

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Smith
writes

Can you get into the valve itself
without having to replace seals etc?

no

Can it be opened at all? Would I need a seal kit, or is it too
dangerous
to
reuse?

They are just not meant to be disassembled, and unless you are VERY
confident in your abilities, it's just not a road to go down. Since you
are having to ask, I would suggest that it's not something you should
try - what if it leaks and you cause an explosion ?




I took the solenoids off, and could see 2 cylinders that go inside the
solenoid coils. These were clean, and I assume the moving parts are
inside
(although there are springs on the outside).


First check that the pilot solenoid isn't open circuit, then check
that
you have volts to it and both are true, and you've thumped it around a
bit
and you are sure that you have a gas supply, you need a new gas valve

OK, will get volt counter today from work.

I have already tapped it a few times in different directions. Should I
hit
it really hard? Is there an optimum direction (I was thinking of along
the
axis of travel), or should I give it a beating from all directions?

basically what can happen if a valve hasn't been used for a while is
that
the rubber seal can stick to the housing - this is what you are trying
to
see if you can dislodge


It has been in use over the summer for hot water, and for the last month
for
CH. When it stopped working, the rads were warm, and it was noticed that
the hot tap was not getting hot (so it died on active duty).

Then the answer is, I think, it's ****ed Jim



Thanks for the help. It was the gas valve.

It is now working better than before - the thermostats on the front actually
change the height of the flames, wheras before the CH one just acted as an
on/off point and the HW one had no effect (hot water at nuclear heat all the
time). Possibly the regulator/modulator thingy was shafted too (and has
been since I moved in). The gas valve no longer CLUNKs (it had always done
that, not a recent thing) - it is now a small click.

I did have a bit of a panic - I put my manometer on before I touched
anything, and it was losing about 1 millibar every 5 minutes. I wondered
how I would tell if I disturbed some piping if it was leaking anyway. It
turns out the leak must have been on the boiler because now there is no
leak. I never smelt gas though, and it is in an airing cupboard type space.

I think it must have been where the square flanges screw onto the main body
with a cork seal in between. Some of the screws were a bit loose on the old
one. Do the screws have to be tightened every so often when you have a cork
gasket? Will I have to check and tighten the new one in a week or so?

Bob

In message , Owain
writes
Ed Sirett wrote:
An extract from the (as yet unpublished) Boiler Repair FAQ on the subject
of gas valves.
This is a genuine €œno user serviceable parts inside€� piece of kit . Now
let's be clear about this. There are no user serviceable parts inside.
There are no professionally serviceable parts inside. There are no diy
serviceable parts inside. In fact there are no serviceable parts inside
even on Christmas eve.

Are there any bits in which would be worth saving in one's useful bits box?

Only if you need a paperweight

--
geoff

In message .com, The
Real Doctor writes
On 12 Oct, 21:55, Ed Sirett wrote:

This is a genuine "no user serviceable parts inside" piece of kit . Now
let's be clear about this. There are no user serviceable parts inside.
There are no professionally serviceable parts inside. There are no diy
serviceable parts inside. In fact there are no serviceable parts inside
even on Christmas eve.

Why are they not serviceable? Serious question. I've encountered very
few things which really, truly were unrepairable, and those were
almost all electronic. What makes a relatively simple device like an
electromechanical gas valve unrepairable?

Two things

1) where will you get bits to repair with ?

2) how are you going to check seals after it is reassembled ?

--
geoff