Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

--
geoff

In message , geoff
wrote

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?


Doesn't the answer required depend on this persons native language in
the first place? It's little point in recommending a site that is in
English if he cannot understand English

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

geoff wrote:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?



came this one across yesterday only

http://www.usingenglish.com/

--
Adrian C

On 2007-10-11 19:31:00 +0100, geoff said:


Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

It's important to know what the starting point is.

English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

Grammar is all over the place.

Someone who speaks one of the other European languages has a starting
point with some of this.

What is the native language of the person concerned?

On 2007-10-11 20:36:44 +0100, said:

Thus spake Andy Hall ) unto the assembled multitudes:

English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

Grammar is all over the place.

Wonderful, isn't it?

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

In message , Andy Hall wrote

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

Andy Hall wrote:

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

What struck me as odd was that mostly the Germanic words tend to be
treated as the poor relatives. Those derived from Latin and/or medieval
French seem to be regarded as posh. Examples are things like "cess" as
in "cesspit" which is posher than "****". However in Italian "cesso" is
regarded in much the same way as saying "****". One that's the other way
aroudn for some reason is lamb/mutton where the French version is the
inferior term and the German is the posh/better regarded.

It's definitely a funny old language.

Alan wrote:
In message , Andy Hall wrote

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

PARDON? Sorry, couldn't help that.

In message , Alan
writes
In message , geoff
wrote

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?


Doesn't the answer required depend on this persons native language in
the first place? It's little point in recommending a site that is in
English if he cannot understand English

I wouldn't have thought it would be so important

but ... Hungarian (where goulash comes from)

--
geoff

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 19:31:00 +0100, geoff said:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

It's important to know what the starting point is.

English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

Grammar is all over the place.

Someone who speaks one of the other European languages has a starting
point with some of this.

What is the native language of the person concerned?

As I said - Hungarian

If you think English is difficult, the only word I know in Hungarian is
cheers - which is Aggisheggdera (might not be spelt 100% correctly)

How do they say that after 10 pints ?


--
geoff

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall wrote

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin


--
geoff

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-10-11 19:31:00 +0100, geoff said:


Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

It's important to know what the starting point is.

English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

Grammar is all over the place.

Don't know what the problem is, I could understand English perfectly before
the age of two.

Someone who speaks one of the other European languages has a starting
point with some of this.

What is the native language of the person concerned?

geoff wrote:
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall
wrote
Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

That could be a tricky one. It might be a long shot, but I'd try search
some Finnish sites. Their language has the same roots and they are good
at English.

On 2007-10-11 21:55:43 +0100, (Steve Firth) said:

Andy Hall wrote:

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

What struck me as odd was that mostly the Germanic words tend to be
treated as the poor relatives. Those derived from Latin and/or medieval
French seem to be regarded as posh. Examples are things like "cess" as
in "cesspit" which is posher than "****". However in Italian "cesso" is
regarded in much the same way as saying "****". One that's the other way
aroudn for some reason is lamb/mutton where the French version is the
inferior term and the German is the posh/better regarded.

It's definitely a funny old language.

I think you're right on that. I wonder if it has something to with
Latin as a language of classics and historically the establishment
church (in some countries) and French as a diplomatic language.

Although I can speak acceptable daily French and a certain amount of
German and understand a great deal more, I do sometimes have situations
of being with someone who speaks some English but doesn't use it daily.
I've found that one good solution that works for communication is to
avoid complex sentence constructions and tenses and to use the English
word derived from whichever language where possible. For example, in
France I found that using the word "firm" (for a company) gets a blank
look normally, whereas "company" is understood (I know that societe - I
missed the accents - is the correct word) There are plenty of other
similar examples.

Another aspect is what is done in a language in order to preserve it
and identified cultural associations. One measure of this is the
extent to which words for new things are borrowed from English and
whether the trouble is taken to coin new ones in the language.
Often, the smaller the language in terms of native speakers, the more
that there are words invented. The extent to which they are used is
another matter.

I thought that "merda" was the Italian word for the brown stuff. It
seems to be used by taxi drivers when they actually end up having to
stop at red traffic lights; although they are good at giving traffic
hand signals with the middle finger of the left hand.

On 2007-10-11 22:15:00 +0100, geoff said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 19:31:00 +0100, geoff said:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

It's important to know what the starting point is.

English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

Grammar is all over the place.

Someone who speaks one of the other European languages has a starting
point with some of this.

What is the native language of the person concerned?

As I said - Hungarian

If you think English is difficult, the only word I know in Hungarian is
cheers - which is Aggisheggdera (might not be spelt 100% correctly)

How do they say that after 10 pints ?

I know that in most languages.

Hungarian is distantly related to Finnish in the sense of being in the
same (Finno-Ugric) linguistic family.

A Finn once told me that there are about 200 words in common, which is
not many. Finns are people of few words anyway, and he went on to
tell me the story of two Finns going into a bar.

One orders the first round of drinks and they are set up on the bar.
They pick them up and one says "kippis" (word for cheers). The
other says "Are we going to talk or drink?"

Coming back to your Hungarian friend, I wonder whether an online thing
is really the way to go. Are they living in Hungary or the UK or??
If it's the UK, I would have thought that finding a local Hungarian
community and finding out what they have done would be a better bet.
Otherwise, exposure to English in a non threatening way works well.

When I talk to people in different countries about how they learned
English, after the obvious answer of school, TV is a common answer, but
more so in countries where English programs are subtitled rather than
dubbed. Swedes and Norwegians often tell me that this made a
difference for them. Others have told me that they listen to the
news on the World Service. The announcers do speak very slightly
slower and more carefully, so as to be helpful without being
patronising - I don't mean the stupid English habit of speaking very
slowly and increasing the volume because Johnny Foreigner must be deaf
or stupid.

I think as well, it depends on what the objective is - i.e. enough to
get around and get by day by day or a much more intensive level.

In message , clot
writes
geoff wrote:
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall
wrote
Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

That could be a tricky one. It might be a long shot, but I'd try search
some Finnish sites. Their language has the same roots and they are good
at English.

No don't complicate things

WHat is required in learning a language is firstly a nucleus of
vocabulary and a basic grammar to string it together with

basically common vocabulary is all that is really important to
communicate, the rest falls in line with use

believe me, I've been there on a number of times
--
geoff

On 2007-10-11 22:32:26 +0100, "clot" said:

geoff wrote:
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall
wrote
Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

That could be a tricky one. It might be a long shot, but I'd try search
some Finnish sites. Their language has the same roots and they are good
at English.

I asked both Finns and Hungarians about that one. They have the same
linguistic root but are not close enough to be able to use that many
common words. Think of the distance. Finns and Estonians can
understand each other with a slight struggle. Finns have become
good at English for other reasons. Languages figure significantly in
school because learning Swedish has been a requirement in their
(officially) dual language environment and English was recognised as
important a couple of generations ago when Finland became a trading
gateway between the west and the Soviet Union.

geoff wrote:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

BBC world service.

geoff wrote:
In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 19:31:00 +0100, geoff said:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

It's important to know what the starting point is.

English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.

The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

Grammar is all over the place.

Someone who speaks one of the other European languages has a starting
point with some of this.

What is the native language of the person concerned?

As I said - Hungarian

If you think English is difficult, the only word I know in Hungarian is
cheers - which is Aggisheggdera (might not be spelt 100% correctly)

How do they say that after 10 pints ?


BARF!

geoff wrote:
In message , clot
writes
geoff wrote:
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall
wrote
Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as
the universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap
french. I suppose forrin is forrin

That could be a tricky one. It might be a long shot, but I'd try
search some Finnish sites. Their language has the same roots and
they are good at English.

No don't complicate things

WHat is required in learning a language is firstly a nucleus of
vocabulary and a basic grammar to string it together with

basically common vocabulary is all that is really important to
communicate, the rest falls in line with use

believe me, I've been there on a number of times

No problem. T'was a thought that still might have some validity. The
Finns are outward looking and philanthropic. I would not be surprised if
someone there hasn't addressed this!

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 22:15:00 +0100, geoff said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 19:31:00 +0100, geoff said:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?
It's important to know what the starting point is.
English is an incredibly difficult language to learn.
The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at
least two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of
celtic and ancient nordic words.
Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some
very commonly used words.
Grammar is all over the place.
Someone who speaks one of the other European languages has a
starting point with some of this.
What is the native language of the person concerned?
As I said - Hungarian
If you think English is difficult, the only word I know in Hungarian
is cheers - which is Aggisheggdera (might not be spelt 100% correctly)
How do they say that after 10 pints ?

I know that in most languages.

Hungarian is distantly related to Finnish in the sense of being in the
same (Finno-Ugric) linguistic family.

A Finn once told me that there are about 200 words in common, which is
not many. Finns are people of few words anyway, and he went on to
tell me the story of two Finns going into a bar.

One orders the first round of drinks and they are set up on the bar.
They pick them up and one says "kippis" (word for cheers). The
other says "Are we going to talk or drink?"

Coming back to your Hungarian friend, I wonder whether an online thing
is really the way to go. Are they living in Hungary or the UK or??
If it's the UK, I would have thought that finding a local Hungarian
community and finding out what they have done would be a better bet.
Otherwise, exposure to English in a non threatening way works well.

He's just started working for me here, he's good at what he does, but ,
no English. I have another Hungarian working for me and there is a
hungarian community around here, that's not important. What is important
is that he picks up enough english to be able to communicate, which is
not so easy as he's over 50 .

All the English courses around here are filled up for the foreseeable
future with Poles, I'm just looking for an online resource to lead him
by the hand. Whether English is a difficult language or not, that
Hungarian is close to Finish is irrelevant, at the end of the day he
has to learn some english

Somewhere I have an excellent book called "grund und aufbauwortschatz"
which is a progressive vocabulary (i.e. it has analysed word
frequency), but I have no idea where it's got to

--
geoff

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-10-11 22:32:26 +0100, "clot" said:

geoff wrote:
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall
wrote
Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as
the universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap
french. I suppose forrin is forrin

That could be a tricky one. It might be a long shot, but I'd try
search some Finnish sites. Their language has the same roots and
they are good at English.

I asked both Finns and Hungarians about that one. They have the same
linguistic root but are not close enough to be able to use that many
common words. Think of the distance. Finns and Estonians can
understand each other with a slight struggle. Finns have become
good at English for other reasons. Languages figure significantly in
school because learning Swedish has been a requirement in their
(officially) dual language environment and English was recognised as
important a couple of generations ago when Finland became a trading
gateway between the west and the Soviet Union.

At one stage in the past, not that long ago, I understand that they had
to learn Finnis, Swedish and Russian.

On 2007-10-11 22:21:48 +0100, geoff said:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall wrote

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

I wonder if any of the local colleges have English evening classes.......

To survive, I guess that he has to learn English on the every day and
conversational level, and then on the written level enough to be able
to handle officialdom.

Andy Hall wrote:

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.



Well lets see:

It was the language of "The empire on which the sun never sets". That
was true BTW; the British Empire was far enough around the globe it was
always light somewhere.

It is the language of the USA, the richest country in the world.

It is the official language (c/o the Empire) of the biggest democracy
(India)

And while it's very difficult to get right, English she mangled can be
and understood, yes? (And often is on this very group!)

Thinks. Hungarian Dictionary. "My hovercraft is full of eels".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Z5Sll7uow

(You'll have to ignore the Spanish subtitles, this was the only full
length version.)

Andy

In message , Owain
writes
geoff wrote:
Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

I don't know how suitable it is for complete beginners but there are
lots of different aspects catered for on the BBC Learning English
websites.

I looked there, its not grass roots enough



Not online, but have you tried your local library?

Not yet

--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Alan
writes
In message , geoff wrote

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who speaks
no English at all to get the basics?


Doesn't the answer required depend on this persons native language in the
first place? It's little point in recommending a site that is in English
if he cannot understand English

I wouldn't have thought it would be so important

but ... Hungarian (where goulash comes from)

--
geoff

Get him to start with ...

A légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal

.... as recommended by Monty Python.


Regards,
Simon.

Andy Hall wrote:

I thought that "merda" was the Italian word for the brown stuff.

Oh yes, that's another one. Like English there are multiple words for
the same thing.

Owain wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some very
commonly used words.

But at least our plurals are reasonably consistent.


Yes, I think you just add an apostrophe and s, don't you?

shed's, saw's, drill's, screwdriver's, etc.

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 22:21:48 +0100, geoff said:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall wrote

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as
the universal language.
The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

I wonder if any of the local colleges have English evening classes.......

full of Poles for the foreseeable future ...



To survive, I guess that he has to learn English on the every day and
conversational level, and then on the written level enough to be able
to handle officialdom.

--
geoff

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

geoff wrote:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

BBC world service.

Yebbut then you learn to whistle at the end of every sentence, and to
make a weird whining noise between every word.

geoff wrote:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

http://www.learn-english-online.org/

On 2007-10-11 23:34:13 +0100, "clot" said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-10-11 22:32:26 +0100, "clot" said:

I asked both Finns and Hungarians about that one. They have the same
linguistic root but are not close enough to be able to use that many
common words. Think of the distance. Finns and Estonians can
understand each other with a slight struggle. Finns have become
good at English for other reasons. Languages figure significantly in
school because learning Swedish has been a requirement in their
(officially) dual language environment and English was recognised as
important a couple of generations ago when Finland became a trading
gateway between the west and the Soviet Union.

At one stage in the past, not that long ago, I understand that they had
to learn Finnis, Swedish and Russian.

Yes it was like that. However, not all that many Finns speak Russian
now or at least want to admit to it.

As to your comment about their being philanthropic, I think that's
true. They generally describe themselves to me as being humble and
shy. That's until after a few vodkas.

Even so, I think they have a different starting point to Hungary and a
different recent history, where recent means post WW2.

On 2007-10-12 00:13:47 +0100, geoff said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-10-11 22:21:48 +0100, geoff said:

In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall wrote

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.
The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

I wonder if any of the local colleges have English evening classes.......

full of Poles for the foreseeable future ...

Oh dear. Then I think next option is to get him to look on some
Hungarian web sites for means to learn English. That must exist. It
certainly does in the other EU accession states, even those like
Romania where people are less likely culturally to come to the UK.






To survive, I guess that he has to learn English on the every day and
conversational level, and then on the written level enough to be able
to handle officialdom.

On 2007-10-11 23:40:25 +0100, Andy Champ said:

Andy Hall wrote:

Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.



Well lets see:

It was the language of "The empire on which the sun never sets". That
was true BTW; the British Empire was far enough around the globe it
was always light somewhere.

True, but I don't think that that was what was meant - more like it
would last for ever.


It is the language of the USA, the richest country in the world.

Hmmm.....




It is the official language (c/o the Empire) of the biggest democracy (India)

Even more hmm...



And while it's very difficult to get right, English she mangled can be
and understood, yes? (And often is on this very group!)

That's true but also true of most languages. I reckon that in any of
the latin or germanic languages I can usually have a reasonable sense
of what's being said because I know enough of the generic words and
it's reckoned that in most cases getting one word in about 5 is enough.
Plus there is body language of different kinds.

Finnish has been mentioned a couple of times. That is difficult
because it is not related to latin/germanic and has its own words for
most things. There is virtually zero body language and long silences
in the middle of conversations.





Thinks. Hungarian Dictionary. "My hovercraft is full of eels".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Z5Sll7uow

(You'll have to ignore the Spanish subtitles, this was the only full
length version.)

Andy

On 2007-10-11 23:32:37 +0100, geoff said:

He's just started working for me here, he's good at what he does, but ,
no English. I have another Hungarian working for me and there is a
hungarian community around here, that's not important. What is
important is that he picks up enough english to be able to communicate,
which is not so easy as he's over 50 .

All the English courses around here are filled up for the foreseeable
future with Poles, I'm just looking for an online resource to lead him
by the hand. Whether English is a difficult language or not, that
Hungarian is close to Finish is irrelevant, at the end of the day he
has to learn some english

Somewhere I have an excellent book called "grund und aufbauwortschatz"
which is a progressive vocabulary (i.e. it has analysed word
frequency), but I have no idea where it's got to

OK, different with the rest of the picture. Given that you've
exhausted most of the obvious things, ISTM that the next place is to
look for English courses on Hungarian sites - perhaps audio as well as
written? Could the other person help him find them?

On 2007-10-12 01:52:05 +0100, (Steve Firth) said:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

geoff wrote:

Does anyone know a good (free) online resource to help someone who
speaks no English at all to get the basics?

BBC world service.

Yebbut then you learn to whistle at the end of every sentence, and to
make a weird whining noise between every word.

Not any more. It's on the net.

Although the announcers still have public school names like Tarquin etc.

In message , Rumble
writes
Owain wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Pronunciation is completely inconsistent across the range of some
very commonly used words.
But at least our plurals are reasonably consistent.


Yes, I think you just add an apostrophe and s, don't you?

shed's, saw's, drill's, screwdriver's, etc.


It started with the greengrocers (potato's, tomato's), but has spread
like a rash. Our local florist has a sign in the window, badly printed
and put together from A4 sheets, stating that they are now open on
Wednesday's.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

On Oct 11, 10:32 pm, "clot" wrote:
geoff wrote:
In message , Alan
writes
In message , Andy Hall
wrote
Yes. I often wonder how we ever got away with marketing this as the
universal language.

The understanding of English is helped by the speaker shouting

Well, this person has just started working for me, I have an english
employee who, when he tried talking to him, breaks into crap french. I
suppose forrin is forrin

That could be a tricky one. It might be a long shot, but I'd try search
some Finnish sites. Their language has the same roots and they are good
at English.

I believe that Finnish and Hungarian are related in much the same way
as English and Hindi are related. That is to say there are patterns
that a linguist can see and be interested in, but the relationship is
of almost no use for a native speaker of one trying to learn the
other.

Consider how useful a native English speaker is likely to find a Dutch
website for learning Hungarian - and English and Dutch are practically
different dialects of the same language compared to Finnish and
Hungarian.

On Oct 11, 9:55 pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
The vocabulary is enormous because for most things there are at least
two words (with latin or germanic origin) plus a smattering of celtic
and ancient nordic words.

What struck me as odd was that mostly the Germanic words tend to be
treated as the poor relatives. Those derived from Latin and/or medieval
French seem to be regarded as posh. Examples are things like "cess" as
in "cesspit" which is posher than "****". However in Italian "cesso" is
regarded in much the same way as saying "****". One that's the other way
aroudn for some reason is lamb/mutton where the French version is the
inferior term and the German is the posh/better regarded.

Well that's because the ruling Normans spoke French, and the peasants
spoke Anglo-Saxon.

That's why the meat is called mutton (it was named by the people
eating it), but the animal is a sheep (it was named by the people
looking after it).

Lamb is an oddity because eating lamb is /such/ an extravagance that
it postdates the emergance of English.

It's definitely a funny old language.

Owain wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
BBC world service.
Although the announcers still have public school names like Tarquin etc.

It's probably the only place in broadcasting where people called Tarquin
can still get a job.

Someone I worked with went to work for them. It was probabky just as
well, since if he had stayed working with me and my colleagues, one of
us would have killed him. He was terribly nice, far back in a Scottish
public school manner, and absolutely bloody useless. Not a Tarquin, but
he could have been.