Please may I get some advice from the plumbing experts here.

Time for a new shower enclosure.

I want to replace my aging electric shower with a good thermostatic
mixer supplied from a Worcester OIL Heatslave combi boiler.

I have looked at all the major brands and examined as many Installation
Manuals as I can find. All of them state that the combi MUST be "fully
modulating". Further research indicates that there are very few (if
any) domestic oil-fired combi boilers that modulate - mine certainly
does not.

My bath mixer tap works perfectly OK and I'm sure that If I stuck a
high pressure bath shower mixer on the bath then that would also work.
So why do a need a fully modulating boiler to supply a shower "tap"?
All I want to do is to connect two water pipes to a mixer and have the
water come out of a tap with lots of small holes in it!

Any help on a work-around would be very welcome.
(A new electric shower is a last resort because I would need an
electrician to install an MCB and he wouldn't like my wired fuses and
I'll end up with a complete rewire.)

TIA.

--
"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

On Oct 4, 5:09 pm, "Ziggur" wrote:
Please may I get some advice from the plumbing experts here.

Time for a new shower enclosure.

I want to replace my aging electric shower with a good thermostatic
mixer supplied from a Worcester OIL Heatslave combi boiler.

I have looked at all the major brands and examined as many Installation
Manuals as I can find. All of them state that the combi MUST be "fully
modulating". Further research indicates that there are very few (if
any) domestic oil-fired combi boilers that modulate - mine certainly
does not.

My bath mixer tap works perfectly OK and I'm sure that If I stuck a
high pressure bath shower mixer on the bath then that would also work.
So why do a need a fully modulating boiler to supply a shower "tap"?
All I want to do is to connect two water pipes to a mixer and have the
water come out of a tap with lots of small holes in it!

Any help on a work-around would be very welcome.
(A new electric shower is a last resort because I would need an
electrician to install an MCB and he wouldn't like my wired fuses and
I'll end up with a complete rewire.)

TIA.

--
"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

I think the problem is that a thermostatic shower only works properly
if the hot water temperature is pretty constant when the flow varies,
as they work by restricting flow rates to vary the output temperature
- if the shower wants to decrease the output temperature it decreases
the hot water flow rate. If that decrease in flow causes your boiler
to increase the hot water temp, you've obviously got a problem.

I'd be inclined to fit a pressure balancing valve and a standard non
thermostatic mixer, something like http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/344-0000
with something like http://www.toolstation.com/messages....0571&mainWin=1

Works much better than a thermostatic setup with any combi, and gets
round your problem.

A

wrote:

I think the problem is that a thermostatic shower only works properly
if the hot water temperature is pretty constant when the flow varies,
as they work by restricting flow rates to vary the output temperature
- if the shower wants to decrease the output temperature it decreases
the hot water flow rate. If that decrease in flow causes your boiler
to increase the hot water temp, you've obviously got a problem.

I'd be inclined to fit a pressure balancing valve and a standard non
thermostatic mixer, something like http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/344-0000
with something like http://www.toolstation.com/messages....0571&mainWin=1

Works much better than a thermostatic setup with any combi, and gets
round your problem.

There is also a secondary problem with some non modulating combis. If
your shower demands too little flow rate you can end up with the boiler
cycling on an off (since the output water temperature rises above the
limit set by its thermostat). The boiler may not be able to maintain a
stable enough water temperature in this circumstance, and you get a
fluctuating shower temperature.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:




There is also a secondary problem with some non modulating combis. If
your shower demands too little flow rate you can end up with the
boiler cycling on an off (since the output water temperature rises
above the limit set by its thermostat). The boiler may not be able to
maintain a stable enough water temperature in this circumstance, and
you get a fluctuating shower temperature.

Thanks John

If I kept the shower flow rate high enough and increased the boiler
thermostat limit would the risk you outline be reduced?

Mike
--
"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

wrote:



I think the problem is that a thermostatic shower only works properly
if the hot water temperature is pretty constant when the flow varies,
as they work by restricting flow rates to vary the output temperature
- if the shower wants to decrease the output temperature it decreases
the hot water flow rate. If that decrease in flow causes your boiler
to increase the hot water temp, you've obviously got a problem.

I'd be inclined to fit a pressure balancing valve and a standard non
thermostatic mixer, something like
http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/344-0000 with something like
http://www.toolstation.com/messages....0571&mainWin=1

Works much better than a thermostatic setup with any combi, and gets
round your problem.

A

Thanks a lot Andrew. Sound like a good plan.
I even like the shower head in your link.
--
"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

Ziggur wrote:
John Rumm wrote:



There is also a secondary problem with some non modulating combis. If
your shower demands too little flow rate you can end up with the
boiler cycling on an off (since the output water temperature rises
above the limit set by its thermostat). The boiler may not be able to
maintain a stable enough water temperature in this circumstance, and
you get a fluctuating shower temperature.

Thanks John

If I kept the shower flow rate high enough and increased the boiler
thermostat limit would the risk you outline be reduced?

Quite possibly. Another solution that can work in this circumstance is
leaving a basin hot tap running a little at the time.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/