Doctor Drivel wrote:

Nowhere does a hybrid really make sense.

My God!! he really doesn't know.

For the same inflated price charged for a Pious one can get a Mercedes
C200 CDi in SE spec. This achieves 63mpg extra urban, 48mpg combined.
Which is better than any real-world test has ever achieved in a Pious.

And for build quality/cabin comfort/handling there's no comparison. The
Pious is a lump of crap with no boot space nor much rear passenger room
and the Pious interior is right up there with the Lada or Moskvich for
build quality. The Mercedes is comfortable, well built and you don't
look like a sandal-wearing geography teacher when you drive one.

Oh, and of course the Prius is an evil handling slug, both in
performance and looks.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Nowhere does a hybrid really make sense.

My God!! he really doesn't know.

For

Please eff off, you are a total idiot.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Matty F wrote:

On Sep 16, 8:45 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2007-09-16, Matty F wrote:

In addition if the batteries can be charged overnight, I won't
need
to
use *any* petrol at all for most of my driving.

... showing a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of the concept
of
"total
cost of ownership", particularly from the environmental point of
view.

I'm talking about "my driving" in New Zealand where the majority of
electric power is generated from rivers and wind and geothermal
energy.

Indeed current mutterings about Prius battery life leave a
suspicion that the battery issue will become very apparent within a few
years.

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop telling lies, Drivel.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Nowhere does a hybrid really make sense.

My God!! he really doesn't know.

For

Please eff off, you are a total idiot.

Loser.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Since you're so embarassed at being show to be an idiot and a liar, why
don't you just shut the **** up?

Here's a clue Drivel, responding by snipping my reply to remove the
meaning shows that you cannot face up to the truth.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Since

Why haven't you effed off?

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Since

Why haven't you effed off?

Coward, pathetic, snivelling coward.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Each wheel develops 160bhp - 640bhp in total.

Sounds like you've re-invented the wheel if you think one can develop
power.

But assuming you mean the motors lets just look at that statement. There
are approx 750 watts to the horsepower. So assuming 100% efficiency which
it won't be near - that's a power input of 750 x 640 = 480*Kw*. So enough
to heat about 50 houses. All from one small battery.

You *really* shouldn't believe everything you read, dribble. Especially
since you understand so little. You should understand ad men love
confusing idiots with half truths.

The original Mini One
develops less than 100bhp with an engine that weighs nearly double the
weight of the four electric wheels!

And the Mini can give that 100 bhp all day until the petrol runs out - not
for a few seconds.

Apart from wheel bearings there are no wearing parts in the electric
wheels; this means the horsepower stays for the life of the vehicle -
and beyond.

You're an even bigger fool if you think anything lasts forever.

--
*TEAMWORK...means never having to take all the blame yourself *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

An 8 years guarantee on the battery and transmission unit.

No,

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Since

Why haven't you effed off?

C

My God! he hasn't effed off yet!!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Each wheel develops 160bhp - 640bhp in total.

Sounds

Please, you must eff off.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Since

Why haven't you effed off?

C

My God! he hasn't effed off yet!!!

Can't imagine for a second why he stay around faced with such informed,
insightful and intelligent debating skills.

VH

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
The original Mini One
develops less than 100bhp with an engine that weighs nearly double the
weight of the four electric wheels!

And the Mini can give that 100 bhp all day until the petrol runs out - not
for a few seconds.

.... and it doesn't need a seperate battery pack, whose weight they have
conveniently forgotten to mention.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...

... and it doesn't need a seperate battery pack, whose weight they have
conveniently forgotten to mention.

And the electric Mini doesn't have a heavy engines and transmission either,
and the Mini is a heavy body. If a car is design from base up with the
technology in mind the car will be much lighter and look different...and go
further too. This Mini in speed knock all others into the ditch.

Anyone who defends outdated internal combustion engine technology is a nut.
Battery technology is progressing by the month.

"Van Helsing" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Please eff off as you are a total idiotic tractor driver.

Stop

Why haven't you effed off?

Since

Why haven't you effed off?

C

My God! he hasn't effed off yet!!!

Can't imagine for a second why he stay around faced with such informed,
insightful and intelligent debating skills.

Neither can I.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
... and it doesn't need a seperate battery pack, whose weight they have
conveniently forgotten to mention.

And the electric Mini doesn't have a heavy engines and transmission
either, and the Mini is a heavy body. If a car is design from base up
with the technology in mind the car will be much lighter and look
different...and go further too. This Mini in speed knock all others
into the ditch.

If you actually understood the article it has a top sustained speed of 60
mph. Brilliant - not. So you have a car with excellent acceleration for a
few yards which can only sustain 60 mph. Ideal for milk deliveries.

Anyone who defends outdated internal combustion engine technology is a
nut. Battery technology is progressing by the month.

Claims certainly are. By those even madder than you.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sep 16, 10:09 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2007-09-16, Matty F wrote:

The majority of the "total cost of ownership" for my car is for
petrol.

The majority of the TCO of a car is depreciation, unless you operate
"bangernomics".

Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here? This is
a d-i-y group. People with vast amounts of money just pay others to
fix their things, and have no idea how to fix anything in an
emergency.

Doctor Drivel wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
The Real Doctor wrote:
And on the Autocar touring route the 330d (a *very* fast car)
actually
gave more mpg than the Prius...

'Swhat you'd expect. The only real advantage a hybrid has is
regenerative braking in towns. At speed it's just like any other car.

The Autocar


A crap mag.


Yes


Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

Give up while you are behind.

Dave

In message , Dave
writes
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article
eenews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
The Real Doctor wrote:
And on the Autocar touring route the 330d (a *very* fast car)

actually
gave more mpg than the Prius...

'Swhat you'd expect. The only real advantage a hybrid has is
regenerative braking in towns. At speed it's just like any other car.

The Autocar


A crap mag.


Yes
Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

Give up while you are behind.

Maybe Drivel is confusing Prius with his real mode of transport ...
batteries included

http://www.regentmobility.co.uk/?gclid=COuGqOmHyY4CFQpEMAodeTayzw

--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Dave
writes
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
The Real Doctor wrote:
And on the Autocar touring route the 330d (a *very* fast car)
actually
gave more mpg than the Prius...

'Swhat you'd expect. The only real advantage a hybrid has is
regenerative braking in towns. At speed it's just like any other
car.

The Autocar


A crap mag.


Yes
Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

Give up while you are behind.

Maybe Drivel is confusing Prius with his real mode of transport ...
batteries included

http://www.regentmobility.co.uk/?gclid=COuGqOmHyY4CFQpEMAodeTayzw

Maxie up a tree in frock:
http://i7.tinypic.com/33e1wyq.jpg

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
... and it doesn't need a seperate battery pack, whose weight they have
conveniently forgotten to mention.

And the electric Mini doesn't have a heavy engines and transmission
either, and the Mini is a heavy body. If a car is design from base up
with the technology in mind the car will be much lighter and look
different...and go further too. This Mini in speed knock all others
into the ditch.

If

Please eff off.

On 2007-09-16 23:17:46 +0100, Matty F said:

On Sep 16, 10:09 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2007-09-16, Matty F wrote:

The majority of the "total cost of ownership" for my car is for
petrol.

The majority of the TCO of a car is depreciation, unless you operate
"bangernomics".

Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here? This is
a d-i-y group. People with vast amounts of money just pay others to
fix their things, and have no idea how to fix anything in an
emergency.

That's what the RAC is for....

On 2007-09-16 23:17:46 +0100, Matty F said:

On Sep 16, 10:09 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2007-09-16, Matty F wrote:

The majority of the "total cost of ownership" for my car is for
petrol.

The majority of the TCO of a car is depreciation, unless you operate
"bangernomics".

Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here?

No.


This is
a d-i-y group.

A UK one.

A DIY group does not mean that everybody DIYs everything all the time.


People with vast amounts of money just pay others to
fix their things, and have no idea how to fix anything in an
emergency.

Economics of necessity is only one factor in whether or not something
is done on a DIY basis - there are several others:

- It may not be possible to find anybody to do the particular job
required in an acceptable timescale or at all.

- One may not be convinced that the standard available from contractors
is going to be good enough.

- Logistically it may be more convenient to carry out a job over a
longer period of time than is suitable for a contractor.

- One may enjoy doing one particular job but not another.

- The time/cost equation for some jobs will be different to others.


In respect of cars, I can fix a number of things and could fix others.
I don't think it's worth investing in too much specialist equipment on
an economic basis. Frankly, cars don't interest me that much and I
don't enjoy working on them. Equally, I can understand that there are
people who do enjoy working on cars and can justify to themselves
buying the equipment to do so on that basis.

I've found that the most cost effective solution for me is to take the
cars to the original main dealer while still in warranty and then to a
small local garage that I've used for years and is reasonably
trustworthy after that. The depreciation is a lot more than the
annual fixing cost.

OTOH, I do know people who practice what I would really describe as
Bangernomics (perhaps this is what Huge meant). A former colleague
did relatively low mileage in the UK and didn't need a particularly
impressive car for customer visits. He would buy a car costing no
more than £500-700 using his car allowance making sure that there was
at least 6 months of tax and MOT on it. He made it a rule that if
anything went wrong that cost more than £50, he would sell it and at
the end of the time would sell it anyway for whatever he could get for
it even if it was only £50 to £100. Sometimes he'd just scrap it.
Maintenance consisted of filling it with petrol, oil, water and air in
the appropriate places. This proved to be very cost effective. He
could comfortably fund it out of his car allowance even after tax.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-16 23:17:46 +0100, Matty F said:

OTOH, I do know people who practice what I would really describe as
Bangernomics (perhaps this is what Huge meant). A former colleague did
relatively low mileage in the UK and didn't need a particularly impressive
car for customer visits. He would buy a car costing no more than
£500-700 using his car allowance making sure that there was at least 6
months of tax and MOT on it. He made it a rule that if anything went
wrong that cost more than £50, he would sell it and at the end of the time
would sell it anyway for whatever he could get for it even if it was only
£50 to £100. Sometimes he'd just scrap it. Maintenance consisted of
filling it with petrol, oil, water and air in the appropriate places.
This proved to be very cost effective. He could comfortably fund it out
of his car allowance even after tax.

He was probably driving around in mobile ash tray that permanently stinks of
nicotine. Then the breakdowns too. I don't think it is worth it. Best buy
a hybrid.

On Sep 17, 6:30 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-09-16 23:17:46 +0100, Matty F said:

On Sep 16, 10:09 pm, Huge wrote:
On 2007-09-16, Matty F wrote:

The majority of the "total cost of ownership" for my car is for
petrol.

The majority of the TCO of a car is depreciation, unless you operate
"bangernomics".

Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here?

No.

This is
a d-i-y group.

A UK one.

Sure but the UK has 15 times the population of NZ, so maybe 15 times
the number of d-i-yers that have discovered Usenet. There are just not
enough of those in NZ.
I stated that 'The majority of the "total cost of ownership" for my
car is for petrol' and was wrongly contradicted.
Japan sells many thousands of quality second-hand cars to NZ for a
fraction of the new price. Since NZ manufactures or assembles no cheap
cars, a Japanese import is an excellent choice for us. My last import
has run flawlessly for 11 years now.

"Matty F" wrote in message
ups.com...

Japan sells many thousands of quality second-hand cars to NZ for a
fraction of the new price. Since NZ manufactures or assembles no cheap
cars, a Japanese import is an excellent choice for us. My last import
has run flawlessly for 11 years now.

The Japs send "used" cars to NZ? In good nick?

On 2007-09-17 08:46:49 +0100, "Doctor Drivel" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-09-16 23:17:46 +0100, Matty F said:

OTOH, I do know people who practice what I would really describe as
Bangernomics (perhaps this is what Huge meant). A former colleague did
relatively low mileage in the UK and didn't need a particularly impressive
car for customer visits. He would buy a car costing no more than
£500-700 using his car allowance making sure that there was at least 6
months of tax and MOT on it. He made it a rule that if anything went
wrong that cost more than £50, he would sell it and at the end of the time
would sell it anyway for whatever he could get for it even if it was only
£50 to £100. Sometimes he'd just scrap it. Maintenance consisted of
filling it with petrol, oil, water and air in the appropriate places.
This proved to be very cost effective. He could comfortably fund it out
of his car allowance even after tax.

He was probably driving around in mobile ash tray that permanently stinks of
nicotine.

He probably was.

Then the breakdowns too.

Didn't matter. Same principle applied. He had the RAC membership
with the get you home service. If the cost to fix exceeded the
target, the car was scrapped and another purchased.



I don't think it is worth it.

I wouldn't either, but then I want something a bit better and bigger,
but it suited him.


Best buy a hybrid.

That's a real extrapolation.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:34:48 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
The Japs send "used" cars to NZ? In good nick?

They send them here too. IIRC the Jap equivalent of our MoT is so
stringent that older cars are much less desirable there.

Half way around the world? I have never seen any for sale. There again I
never looked for one.

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:34:48 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
The Japs send "used" cars to NZ? In good nick?

They send them here too. IIRC the Jap equivalent of our MoT is so
stringent that older cars are much less desirable there.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:17:46 -0700 Matty F wrote :
Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here?

No, I run a new car because it's cheaper to ... once you factor in
the hassle factor cost of an older car needing tyres, MoT, etc. I'm
on my second Honda Jazz: TCO (excluding fuel, tax, insurance) for my
first one about £1500p.a. 100% reliability and one cheap (£125)
annual service

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

"raden" wrote in message
...

Can be seen from this table

http://www.rac.co.uk/web/knowhow/own...s/motor_index_
results/results_q1_06/

Pretty crap really ...

Maxie, they put loanss the likes intio the equation. Duh!!!

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:34:48 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
The Japs send "used" cars to NZ? In good nick?

They send them here too. IIRC the Jap equivalent of our MoT is so
stringent that older cars are much less desirable there.

The manufacturers are also compelled to repurchase any cars they have
sold if the owner requires it. There MoT equivalent is also very
expensive to put a car through. Hence a supply of good low mileage stuff
making its way to anywhere near. They can be quite cost effective
bringing them to the UK as well. You get better choice of models than
from the UK official importers, and much better prices. You will pay
more for insurance though.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:34:48 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
The Japs send "used" cars to NZ? In good nick?

They send them here too. IIRC the Jap equivalent of our MoT is so
stringent that older cars are much less desirable there.

Half way around the world? I have never seen any for sale. There again
I never looked for one.

Have a look at any of the places that specialise in high performance
cars - grey imports are quite common because often you can get models
that are not sold here officially.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
He was probably driving around in mobile ash tray that permanently
stinks of nicotine. Then the breakdowns too. I don't think it is worth
it. Best buy a hybrid.

Time and time again you've demonstrated you have no idea of the value of
money. Especially others money. You've just been told how poor value the
Prius is in terms of running costs but continue to recommend it regardless
of what a person wants or needs.

In your own words 'why don't you eff off' - back to your planet.

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:17:46 -0700 Matty F wrote :
Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here?

No, I run a new car because it's cheaper to ... once you factor in
the hassle factor cost of an older car needing tyres, MoT, etc. I'm
on my second Honda Jazz: TCO (excluding fuel, tax, insurance) for my
first one about £1500p.a. 100% reliability and one cheap (£125)
annual service

I really can't believe any new car makes sense economics wise when you
take depreciation into it. Much more so if you do lower than average miles
- which you hint at if you never need to buy tyres. And does the few quid
an MOT cost really bother you?

--
*It was all so different before everything changed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
The manufacturers are also compelled to repurchase any cars they have
sold if the owner requires it. There MoT equivalent is also very
expensive to put a car through. Hence a supply of good low mileage stuff
making its way to anywhere near. They can be quite cost effective
bringing them to the UK as well. You get better choice of models than
from the UK official importers, and much better prices. You will pay
more for insurance though.

I've read that Japanese home market cars may not be protected from rust
etc as well as their export ones - since they are not expected to have to
last as long.

--
*Never kick a cow pat on a hot day *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

He was probably driving around in a mobile ash tray that permanently
stinks of nicotine. Then the breakdowns too. I don't think it is worth
it. Best buy a hybrid.

Time

Please eff off as you are a total idiot.

The message
from Tony Bryer contains these words:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:17:46 -0700 Matty F wrote :
Of course I operate "bangernomics". Doesn't everybody in here?

No, I run a new car because it's cheaper to ... once you factor in
the hassle factor cost of an older car needing tyres, MoT, etc. I'm
on my second Honda Jazz: TCO (excluding fuel, tax, insurance) for my
first one about £1500p.a. 100% reliability and one cheap (£125)
annual service

I gave up servicing my car when cars ceased to be simple. The last was a
Range Rover that I sold about 20 years ago.

I have however only once bought a new car (a potential pile of rust with
a Fiat badge as it turned out and the only car I was ever attracted to
principally by appearance). I prefer to use my savings on a secondhand
car rather than a new one at the same price, and then keep it till it
starts getting expensive. The above mentioned Fiat only lasted 5 years
and (present car currently excepted) all of the cars I have had since
then have been kept for longer, even the Range Rover.

--
Roger Chapman

John Rumm wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:34:48 +0100 Doctor Drivel wrote :
The Japs send "used" cars to NZ? In good nick?

They send them here too. IIRC the Jap equivalent of our MoT is so
stringent that older cars are much less desirable there.

Half way around the world? I have never seen any for sale. There
again I never looked for one.

Have a look at any of the places that specialise in high performance
cars - grey imports are quite common because often you can get models
that are not sold here officially.


Yup. I bought one for my son's 21st that way.