Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

"Pete L" wrote in message
ups.com...
Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?


It is to ensure that the drum has stopped rotating, and that the water
has drained out. Ostensibly to prevent the consumer suffering damage,
but really to stop the maufacturer being sued. (I speak as the owner
of 39, mainly commercial, washing machines).

AWEM

In article . com,
Pete L writes:
Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

It's required so there's no way you could open the door when the
drum is still spinning. The interlock has to work if the mains fails
(which is why it's usually a non-electrical timer), and it has to
work if the belt breaks (so it can't rely on the speed servo on the
motor).

If manufacturers were prepared to go more complicated/expensive, I
guess you could have a drum motion sensor with an electronic means
to bypass the standard interlock so the door could be released sooner
if there's still an electricity supply, but I guess they don't think
they could sell this feature.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

My Miele unlocks immediately it has finished.

On 2007-07-07 18:28:41 +0100, Pete L said:

Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

It depends on the machine and its control system.

Those with basic electromechanical timers have a time delayed mechanism
to release the door after the final spin.

I just bought a Miele for my parents. This one has an electronic
controller and is a good deal more intelligent. The door can be opened
during the cycle as long as the water level is below the door. After
spinning, the door lock is released the instant the drum comes to rest.

wrote in message
oups.com...

My Miele unlocks immediately it has finished.

Sounds cheap.

My Miele unlocks immediately it has finished.

Sounds cheap.

Yeah - they're horrid things made out of old Ladas.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-07 18:28:41 +0100, Pete L said:

Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

It depends on the machine and its control system.

Those with basic electromechanical timers have a time delayed mechanism
to release the door after the final spin.

I just bought a Miele for my parents. This one has an electronic
controller and is a good deal more intelligent. The door can be opened
during the cycle as long as the water level is below the door. After
spinning, the door lock is released the instant the drum comes to rest.



Very useful features indeed. I'm always wanting to open the door during
the washing cycle, and I hate to waste all those seconds when it's finished

On 7 Jul, 18:28, Pete L wrote:
Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

cost. The cheap inaccurate mechanisms are cheaper.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

The interlock has to work if the mains fails
(which is why it's usually a non-electrical timer),

Often a thermally operated devices is used, heated by a ceramic PTC
(thermistor) element. These have a low resistance when cold, so heat
up quickly, giving a quick locking action. The release action has to
wait for natural cooling of the device after power is removed, and
usually takes a minute or two (hardly "an eternity" - that's just an
example of the watched kettle effect in action).

--
Andy

On 2007-07-07 19:36:28 +0100, Stuart Noble
said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-07-07 18:28:41 +0100, Pete L said:

Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

It depends on the machine and its control system.

Those with basic electromechanical timers have a time delayed mechanism
to release the door after the final spin.

I just bought a Miele for my parents. This one has an electronic
controller and is a good deal more intelligent. The door can be opened
during the cycle as long as the water level is below the door. After
spinning, the door lock is released the instant the drum comes to rest.



Very useful features indeed. I'm always wanting to open the door during
the washing cycle,

Helps if you forget something


and I hate to waste all those seconds when it's finished

It would be somewhat bad design not to take advantage of the sensors
and electronics available.

The worst example I saw of this was on a Zanussi machine that remained
locked for three minutes. There's no reason for that at all - crap
design.

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:09:10 UTC, Andy Wade
wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

The interlock has to work if the mains fails
(which is why it's usually a non-electrical timer),

Often a thermally operated devices is used, heated by a ceramic PTC
(thermistor) element. These have a low resistance when cold, so heat
up quickly, giving a quick locking action. The release action has to
wait for natural cooling of the device after power is removed, and
usually takes a minute or two (hardly "an eternity" - that's just an
example of the watched kettle effect in action).

Some advantage in having our ancient Hotpoint...purely mechanical with
no time delay - locks only when belt is moving (so, yes, a broken belt
does expose the risk of opening the door before the drum has stopped).

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Pete L
saying something like:

Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

It's so you can't stick your head in and turn the kitchen upside down.
--

Dave

On 7 Jul, 21:03, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Pete L
saying something like:

Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity, before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism during
that eternity?

It's so you can't stick your head in and turn the kitchen upside down.
--

Dave

Thanks guys. It seems that cheap thermistors are the reason. I still
can't see why the lock mechanism can't unlock when the spin motor
stops. I can remember in my childhood having a spin drier. This one
just spun until my Mum thought it had done enough. Then she just
opened the lid. Using common sense she waited until the thing had
stopped spinning then pulled out the stuff. So simple and not life
threatening!

"Pete L" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 7 Jul, 21:03, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when
the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Pete L

saying something like:

Anybody, esp someone who is in manufacture, any idea why just
about
every washing machine I have come across stays locked when it has
finished? Why does one have to wait, what seems an eternity,
before
you can pull the stuff out? What is going on in the mechanism
during
that eternity?

It's so you can't stick your head in and turn the kitchen upside
down.
--

Dave

Thanks guys. It seems that cheap thermistors are the reason. I still
can't see why the lock mechanism can't unlock when the spin motor
stops. I can remember in my childhood having a spin drier. This one
just spun until my Mum thought it had done enough. Then she just
opened the lid. Using common sense she waited until the thing had
stopped spinning then pulled out the stuff. So simple and not life
threatening!


....mmm ... the Hoover Spinarinse I think ! There is a bigger
commercial unit used in Launderettes that has a brake drum on the
spindle that is mechanically linked to the lid hinge so it stops when
opened. However with a large wet load they don't stop instantly. There
have been one or two incidents where inquisitive toddlers have lifted
the lid, put in a hand, and literally had their arm ripped off at the
shoulder. For this reason I removed them from my shops when I bought
them - I couldn't contemplate living with my concience should such a
thing happen in one of my Launderettes.

AWEM

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:

The worst example I saw of this was on a Zanussi machine that remained
locked for three minutes. There's no reason for that at all - crap
design.

My parents' Zanussi is terrible in this respect. It's about 3 minutes
after you switch the machine off, not after it finishes. So you have
to go to the machine after the cycle has finished and press the knob
IIRC to switch it off. Then go and amuse yourself for 3 minutes before
coming back to open the door.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2007-07-07 22:57:55 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
said:

...mmm ... the Hoover Spinarinse I think ! There is a bigger
commercial unit used in Launderettes that has a brake drum on the
spindle that is mechanically linked to the lid hinge so it stops when
opened. However with a large wet load they don't stop instantly. There
have been one or two incidents where inquisitive toddlers have lifted
the lid, put in a hand, and literally had their arm ripped off at the
shoulder. For this reason I removed them from my shops when I bought
them - I couldn't contemplate living with my concience should such a
thing happen in one of my Launderettes.

AWEM

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a good
business?

On 07 Jul 2007 21:58:11 GMT, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

My parents' Zanussi is terrible in this respect. It's about 3 minutes
after you switch the machine off, not after it finishes. So you have
to go to the machine after the cycle has finished and press the knob
IIRC to switch it off. Then go and amuse yourself for 3 minutes before
coming back to open the door.

Yep, the current (old) Zanussi is just the same.

An even older Hot Point had a mechanical interlock. There was a pecker
hanging above the belt driving the drum, a cable ran from the that to the
door handle. If you tried to open the door with the drum moving the the
pecker touched the belt moved sideways this allowed the cable to move
inhibiting the latch. I think there was also a solenoid interlock as well
so you couldn't open the door with the drum full of water etc...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:45:30 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

An even older Hot Point had a mechanical interlock. There was a pecker
hanging above the belt driving the drum, a cable ran from the that to the
door handle. If you tried to open the door with the drum moving the the
pecker touched the belt moved sideways this allowed the cable to move
inhibiting the latch. I think there was also a solenoid interlock as well
so you couldn't open the door with the drum full of water etc...

Yes and yes. That's what we have (nearly 13 years old).

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-07 22:57:55 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
said:

...mmm ... the Hoover Spinarinse I think ! There is a bigger
commercial unit used in Launderettes that has a brake drum on the
spindle that is mechanically linked to the lid hinge so it stops
when
opened. However with a large wet load they don't stop instantly.
There
have been one or two incidents where inquisitive toddlers have
lifted
the lid, put in a hand, and literally had their arm ripped off at
the
shoulder. For this reason I removed them from my shops when I
bought
them - I couldn't contemplate living with my concience should such
a
thing happen in one of my Launderettes.

AWEM

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a
good
business?


Yes and no ! Most of my customers are 'dinkies', (dual income no kids)
who both slog all day in the city to be able to pay their huge
mortgage, and cannot be fagged to do chores like washing when they
come home. They use our 4 minute system (2 mins to drop off, and two
to collect). I would expect that most of the customers have their own
washing machines but not the time nor inclination to use them !

AWEM

In article ,
"Andrew Mawson" writes:

Yes and no ! Most of my customers are 'dinkies', (dual income no kids)
who both slog all day in the city to be able to pay their huge
mortgage, and cannot be fagged to do chores like washing when they
come home. They use our 4 minute system (2 mins to drop off, and two
to collect). I would expect that most of the customers have their own
washing machines but not the time nor inclination to use them !

So presumably your launderettes are manned for service washes?
I don't recall seeing a manned launderette for years.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

HI Andrew

On 08 Jul 2007 07:07:32 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
"Andrew Mawson" writes:

Yes and no ! Most of my customers are 'dinkies', (dual income no kids)
who both slog all day in the city to be able to pay their huge
mortgage, and cannot be fagged to do chores like washing when they
come home. They use our 4 minute system (2 mins to drop off, and two
to collect). I would expect that most of the customers have their own
washing machines but not the time nor inclination to use them !

So presumably your launderettes are manned for service washes?
I don't recall seeing a manned launderette for years.

FWIW there's one in our local village (Ballydehob).

It's called 'My Beautiful Launderette' (honestly !) -
and has all the big industrial washers / driers in the back,
and a 'whatever colour you can imagine' paint mixing section in the
front, together with a shop selling everything from beach balls to
compost, tile trim, bedding plants, screws & glue, batteries, fly
swatters..... and so on.

It's closed odd hours - so the locals leave a bin-bag of clothes for
washing on the doorstep !

All within the space of your average English Chinese takeaway...

Wonderful place !

Adrian

On 2007-07-08 07:48:42 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a
good
business?


Yes and no ! Most of my customers are 'dinkies', (dual income no kids)
who both slog all day in the city to be able to pay their huge
mortgage, and cannot be fagged to do chores like washing when they
come home. They use our 4 minute system (2 mins to drop off, and two
to collect). I would expect that most of the customers have their own
washing machines but not the time nor inclination to use them !

AWEM

Ah I see. I imagine much better margin in that than in people coming
in and putting their money into the machines. Do you do the ironing
as well? From what I hear, that's a bigger PITA job than using the
WMC.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Andrew Mawson" writes:

Yes and no ! Most of my customers are 'dinkies', (dual income no
kids)
who both slog all day in the city to be able to pay their huge
mortgage, and cannot be fagged to do chores like washing when they
come home. They use our 4 minute system (2 mins to drop off, and
two
to collect). I would expect that most of the customers have their
own
washing machines but not the time nor inclination to use them !

So presumably your launderettes are manned for service washes?
I don't recall seeing a manned launderette for years.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I've franchaised them. The 'staff' run their own business doing the
service wash and ironing, set their own prices and pay their own tax
and insurance. The advantage to me is that the vandalism is reduced
vastly and if Flossy is having an off day then she arranges cover not
me!

AWEM

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a
good business?

Yes and no ! Most of my customers are 'dinkies', (dual income no kids)
who both slog all day in the city to be able to pay their huge
mortgage, and cannot be fagged to do chores like washing when they
come home. They use our 4 minute system (2 mins to drop off, and two
to collect). I would expect that most of the customers have their own
washing machines but not the time nor inclination to use them !

That's interesting. Every launderette I see is near empty at any time
these days. I used them a few times last year when my old machine
broke down (beyond self repair, and before I splashed on a Miele) -
and found launderettes to be hugely expensive IMO, over £10 for 2
machines wash & dry that would cost pence at home.

Most launderettes then must be very marginal businesses, surviving on
having covered their capital costs years ago.

Maybe there's a potential wider business niche in transforming
launderettes into primarily service wash centres - though most are not
well positioned for easy drop off and collect

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

The interlock has to work if the mains fails
(which is why it's usually a non-electrical timer),

Often a thermally operated devices is used, heated by a ceramic PTC
(thermistor) element. These have a low resistance when cold, so heat up
quickly, giving a quick locking action. The release action has to wait
for natural cooling of the device after power is removed,


and
usually takes a minute or two (hardly "an eternity" - that's just an
example of the watched kettle effect in action).


It is an eternity when you want your car keys back out of your trouser
pocket.

Adam

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 09:38:00 UTC, wrote:

On 7 Jul,
"Bob Eager" wrote:

Some advantage in having our ancient Hotpoint...purely mechanical with
no time delay - locks only when belt is moving (so, yes, a broken belt
does expose the risk of opening the door before the drum has stopped).

If it's the same as our ancient hotpoint the drum rotation would also cause
it to fail to open. It requires a solid non moving surface to allow the
mechanism to open the door. Very simple and effective.

I don't see any other mechanism (for rotation) other than the pecker on
the belt. Will work every time except during drum rundown after a belt
breakage. What other mechanism does yours have?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:53:16 UTC, wrote:

On 8 Jul,
"Bob Eager" wrote:

I don't see any other mechanism (for rotation) other than the pecker on
the belt. Will work every time except during drum rundown after a belt
breakage. What other mechanism does yours have?

It's while since I had the back off, butIIRC the pecker needs to be
restrained by a stationary object, usually the belt. If this is not present
the drum, if moving, would also cause the pecker to move, and prevent door
opening.

I see what you're getting at...but the movement of the drum is actually
irrelevant. I see it now.

If the belt is there and not moving, the pecker presses against it, the
cable outer doesn't move, and the door opens. I knew that part.

If the belt is moving, the pecker gets knocked aside, pivots, and will
not let the door open. I knew that too!

If the belt is broken, there's nothing for the pecker to press against
at all...so the door is still locked. I don't see how movement of the
drum actually makes any difference in this case.

So, it works well even under the broken belt scenario. Simple and
effective. Why did they stop using it?

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

I just bought a Miele for my parents. This one has an electronic
controller and is a good deal more intelligent. The door can be opened
during the cycle as long as the water level is below the door. After
spinning, the door lock is released the instant the drum comes to rest.



Very useful features indeed. I'm always wanting to open the door during
the washing cycle, and I hate to waste all those seconds when it's finished


Plenty of times I've stuffed the washing in the machine, stuck in the powder
and turned it on only to spot the sock laying on the floor behind me.

A couple of times i've started the machine full of whites and noticed the
dark blue sock going around as well...

sometimes, being able to open the door after the program has started is
handy. Even if the drum is turning if you hold the button in the Miele
stops the drum and then unlocks the door.

Darren

On 7 Jul, 23:03, Andy Hall wrote:

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a good
business?

The one in Eastenders is never empty - no-one in Albert Square owns a
washing machine it seems

On 8 Jul, 20:04, (dmc) wrote:

sometimes, being able to open the door after the program has started is
handy. Even if the drum is turning if you hold the button in the Miele
stops the drum and then unlocks the door.

Darren

Giving the machine a thump near the lock mechanism will often persuade
it to open without waiting for the interlock to re-set

"Zeke" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 7 Jul, 23:03, Andy Hall wrote:

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a
good
business?

The one in Eastenders is never empty - no-one in Albert Square owns
a
washing machine it seems




A full Launderette is not necessarily a busy Launderette ! I have one
that is the local chat shop, they come in and chat and swap stories
and drink coffee, and maybe only one of the 'inhabitants' is actually
a paying customer !

An empty Launderette is not necessarily a quiet one either: I have one
where most of the trade is service washes, dropped off for the girls
to wash / dry / iron. I can drive past and only see the attendant, but
maybe 2/3rds of the machines are in operation.

AWEM

On 8 Jul, 20:50, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Zeke" wrote in message

ups.com...

On 7 Jul, 23:03, Andy Hall wrote:

Are launderettes used as much as they were in the past? Still a
good
business?

The one in Eastenders is never empty - no-one in Albert Square owns
a
washing machine it seems

A full Launderette is not necessarily a busy Launderette ! I have one
that is the local chat shop, they come in and chat and swap stories
and drink coffee, and maybe only one of the 'inhabitants' is actually
a paying customer !

An empty Launderette is not necessarily a quiet one either: I have one
where most of the trade is service washes, dropped off for the girls
to wash / dry / iron. I can drive past and only see the attendant, but
maybe 2/3rds of the machines are in operation.

AWEM

I used to know a guy who owned a lauderette in Birmingham and did
regular service washes for all the local masage parlours!