Can anyone please offer any comments/insight/expert opinion/words of
condolence for the following.....

We're trying to do a part exchange on our house. The existing house is
an 1891 stone built end terrace and when we bought it in 2000 we
stupidly only had the mortgage valuation done. The surveyor picked up
on a couple of things - the roof was "coming to the end of it's useful
life" (sagging due to replacement tiles) and that there had been some
movement causing mortar cracks and slight lateral displacement. The
movement was deemed to be long standing and the potential for further
movement was acceptable. Noticed an internal crack at the top of the
cellar stairs upon moving in which was in the original limestone
plaster. Never gave it much thought but have been keeping my eye on it
and it's not changed appearance in 7 years.

We spend the next 7 years completely renovating the place.
Replastering, replacing coving and skirting etc with the hope of
adding value when we come to eventually sell.

2 weeks ago a surveyor came out at the request of the building
company. Scribbled away, never asked us about anything and went away.
Building company phoned and said they will pay for a structural survey
since the surveyor has picked upon problems with the roof (was
expecting that) and there has been some movement (that'll be what was
noticed when we bought it).

Structural surveyor comes out with a little spirit level and a
dictaphone and again never asks us any questions. Report comes back
and said the roof needs strengthening as it causing roof spread.
(£5K). I accept that. He also noted the mortar cracks (which are
mostly hairline and not anywhere near 1mm) and said the these were
"more recent" which if you ask me is extremely vague (if he's never
seen the house before how can he possibly know? They could have been
there for 40 years). He then went on to say in the same paragraph that
there was dusting on the front garden wall, which is evidence of work
being done on the mortar (It was but it was to replace some coping
stones on the wall and not the join between wall and house). He also
went on to say that the house had been refurbished, new skirtings etc
and that this could mask signs of internal movement. Some of the
floors also slope a bit. The upshot of this is that in his
professional opinion the house is suffering from ongoing gradual
movement!!!! The surveyor will now not put a value on the house and
will not recommend that the building company PX with us.

Is it me or is this one of the biggest cases of arse-covering ever? Is
this how it always goes? A 100+ year old house has sloping floors and
a couple of cracks and you've got to get the foundations checked
because it's been replastered and the skirtings have been replaced.
I'm thinking of paying for a second opinion. Is it likely that ANY
engineer will reach the same conclusion because they're too ****
scared to say anything else?

Is it me or is this one of the biggest cases of arse-covering ever? Is
this how it always goes? A 100+ year old house has sloping floors and
a couple of cracks and you've got to get the foundations checked
because it's been replastered and the skirtings have been replaced.
I'm thinking of paying for a second opinion. Is it likely that ANY
engineer will reach the same conclusion because they're too ****
scared to say anything else?


Prolly arse covering, its a -BIG- industry now in the UK!..

All part of the "compensation kulture"

Most every house in the UK us likely to move a little bit in 100
years!..

You should go out into the fens and see what they get on down too!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 06:43:37 -0700, lunny1973 wrote:

Can anyone please offer any comments/insight/expert opinion/words of
condolence for the following.....

We're trying to do a part exchange on our house. The existing house is an
1891 stone built end terrace and when we bought it in 2000 we stupidly
only had the mortgage valuation done. The surveyor picked up on a couple
of things - the roof was "coming to the end of it's useful life" (sagging
due to replacement tiles) and that there had been some movement causing
mortar cracks and slight lateral displacement. The movement was deemed to
be long standing and the potential for further movement was acceptable.
Noticed an internal crack at the top of the cellar stairs upon moving in
which was in the original limestone plaster. Never gave it much thought
but have been keeping my eye on it and it's not changed appearance in 7
years.

We spend the next 7 years completely renovating the place. Replastering,
replacing coving and skirting etc with the hope of adding value when we
come to eventually sell.

2 weeks ago a surveyor came out at the request of the building company.
Scribbled away, never asked us about anything and went away. Building
company phoned and said they will pay for a structural survey since the
surveyor has picked upon problems with the roof (was expecting that) and
there has been some movement (that'll be what was noticed when we bought
it).

Structural surveyor comes out with a little spirit level and a dictaphone
and again never asks us any questions. Report comes back and said the roof
needs strengthening as it causing roof spread. (£5K). I accept that. He
also noted the mortar cracks (which are mostly hairline and not anywhere
near 1mm) and said the these were "more recent" which if you ask me is
extremely vague (if he's never seen the house before how can he possibly
know? They could have been there for 40 years). He then went on to say in
the same paragraph that there was dusting on the front garden wall, which
is evidence of work being done on the mortar (It was but it was to replace
some coping stones on the wall and not the join between wall and house).
He also went on to say that the house had been refurbished, new skirtings
etc and that this could mask signs of internal movement. Some of the
floors also slope a bit. The upshot of this is that in his professional
opinion the house is suffering from ongoing gradual movement!!!! The
surveyor will now not put a value on the house and will not recommend that
the building company PX with us.

Is it me or is this one of the biggest cases of arse-covering ever? Is
this how it always goes? A 100+ year old house has sloping floors and a
couple of cracks and you've got to get the foundations checked because
it's been replastered and the skirtings have been replaced. I'm thinking
of paying for a second opinion. Is it likely that ANY engineer will reach
the same conclusion because they're too **** scared to say anything else?

===================================
I doubt if there's anything to be gained by paying for a second opinion as
it's unlikely to change the collective mind of the building company with
whom you're dealing. In fact it might compromise your situation in a
future sale as it might show up something unpleasant that you might have
to disclose if HIPs become a reality. The simple answer is to sell on the
open market where you'll probably get a better price.

As far as "..........suffering from ongoing gradual movement......." is
concerned I wouldn't be too bothered given the nature and age of the
property. The famous Iron Bridge is known to be suffering from the same
problem and as far as I know nobody is suggesting that it's in imminent
danger of collapse.

You mention that you got a mortgage 7 years ago so there's no real reason
why another buyer shouldn't do the same unless there has been substantial
and dangerous deterioration in the intervening years.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:06:01 UTC, Cicero
wrote:

As far as "..........suffering from ongoing gradual movement......." is
concerned I wouldn't be too bothered given the nature and age of the
property. The famous Iron Bridge is known to be suffering from the same
problem and as far as I know nobody is suggesting that it's in imminent
danger of collapse.

True, but they do keep having to repair the abutments because the river
banks are shifting!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

AFAIK there's nothing stopping you engaging new surveyors/engineers
until you get the opinion you want. Even to the extent of talking to
them on the phone first and describing the emphasis you want to see in
the report.

A first question is whether the building company will accept a new
survey paid for by you. Is there a salesman somewhere looking out for
his commission that would push your case?

Another question to consider is if the building company simply doesn't
want your house in p/ex and is using the "professionals" to justify
that.

On 15 Jun, 16:06, Cicero wrote:


You mention that you got a mortgage 7 years ago so there's no real reason
why another buyer shouldn't do the same unless there has been substantial
and dangerous deterioration in the intervening years.

Cic.


If they get the same surveyor as the building company have then it
could be a problem! He won't even value it.

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:18:17 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:06:01 UTC, Cicero wrote:

As far as "..........suffering from ongoing gradual movement......." is
concerned I wouldn't be too bothered given the nature and age of the
property. The famous Iron Bridge is known to be suffering from the same
problem and as far as I know nobody is suggesting that it's in imminent
danger of collapse.
------------------------------------

True, but they do keep having to repair the abutments because the river
banks are shifting!
==================================
Apparently the whole valley / gorge is shifting, not just the river banks.
The point is that maintenance and remedial work can preserve the bridge
and the same is true of a house if it's worth it.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On 15 Jun, 16:45, " wrote:
AFAIK there's nothing stopping you engaging new surveyors/engineers
until you get the opinion you want. Even to the extent of talking to
them on the phone first and describing the emphasis you want to see in
the report.

Thanks for that suggestion - I'll give that a go.

A first question is whether the building company will accept a new
survey paid for by you. Is there a salesman somewhere looking out for
his commission that would push your case?

Another question to consider is if the building company simply doesn't
want your house in p/ex and is using the "professionals" to justify
that.

I've been speaking to the sales director who's been spot on so far. He
seems very keen on keeping us. He's even suggested getting a second
engineers report.

On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:08:14 -0700, lunny1973 wrote:

On 15 Jun, 16:06, Cicero wrote:


You mention that you got a mortgage 7 years ago so there's no real
reason why another buyer shouldn't do the same unless there has been
substantial and dangerous deterioration in the intervening years.

Cic.


If they get the same surveyor as the building company have then it could
be a problem! He won't even value it.

==================================
That's a risk you have to take, but I think that it's a case of you
putting a price on the house and hoping that a prospective buyer agrees
with your valuation in the light of the surveyor's report.

I doubt if an independent surveyor would actually put a price on your
house unlike the building company surveyor who is being paid by the
company to do so. Acting independently, he would report on the state of
the property and leave the decision on price to the buyer.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

On 15 Jun, 17:48, Cicero wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:08:14 -0700, lunny1973 wrote:
On 15 Jun, 16:06, Cicero wrote:

You mention that you got a mortgage 7 years ago so there's no real
reason why another buyer shouldn't do the same unless there has been
substantial and dangerous deterioration in the intervening years.

Cic.

If they get the same surveyor as the building company have then it could
be a problem! He won't even value it.

==================================
That's a risk you have to take, but I think that it's a case of you
putting a price on the house and hoping that a prospective buyer agrees
with your valuation in the light of the surveyor's report.

I doubt if an independent surveyor would actually put a price on your
house unlike the building company surveyor who is being paid by the
company to do so. Acting independently, he would report on the state of
the property and leave the decision on price to the buyer.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

True. I'll see how it goes on Monday as the sales director wants to
discuss the report with the engineer. It's annoying though that this
could all fall through because someones seen a crack in some mortar,
got twitchy and doesn't want to risk the 1% chance that it might come
back on them someday. All three pieces of information he's used to
conclude that there is movement are based on poor observation and
assumption. Speaking of observation - he's put in the report that he
could not determine the exact age of the property - even though A.D
1891 is carved in stone at the front of the house, next to the crack
he's observed - and he's even taken a picture of it and included it in
the report. If it goes belly up then I'll be phoning him myself.

Are cellar walls/ crawl spaces the same as foundations? No cracking at
all at that level. Also could the roof spread/extra weight of the roof
cause the same symptoms as possible foundation trouble?

On 15 Jun, 17:42, wrote:
On 15 Jun, 16:45, " wrote:

AFAIK there's nothing stopping you engaging new surveyors/engineers
until you get the opinion you want. Even to the extent of talking to
them on the phone first and describing the emphasis you want to see in
the report.

Thanks for that suggestion - I'll give that a go.

A first question is whether the building company will accept a new
survey paid for by you. Is there a salesman somewhere looking out for
his commission that would push your case?

Another question to consider is if the building company simply doesn't
want your house in p/ex and is using the "professionals" to justify
that.

I've been speaking to the sales director who's been spot on so far. He
seems very keen on keeping us. He's even suggested getting a second
engineers report.

We sold a 100 year old house a few years ago. Various buyers had
surveyors come round. One was clearly just out of college and wrote up
everything that was wrong as though it was a modern house. The walls
weren.t square, the floor was uneven (it was stone flags), etc. The
buyer was told the foundations needed underpinning! A more experienced
surveyor looked at the house and concluded that any movement was old
and not progressing and gave the place a clean bill of health for an
old property.
Get a report from a surveyor who knows about older houses. It will be
good amunition to present to whoever buys it.

John

On 15 Jun, 18:45, John wrote:
On 15 Jun, 17:42, wrote:



On 15 Jun, 16:45, " wrote:

AFAIK there's nothing stopping you engaging new surveyors/engineers
until you get the opinion you want. Even to the extent of talking to
them on the phone first and describing the emphasis you want to see in
the report.

Thanks for that suggestion - I'll give that a go.

A first question is whether the building company will accept a new
survey paid for by you. Is there a salesman somewhere looking out for
his commission that would push your case?

Another question to consider is if the building company simply doesn't
want your house in p/ex and is using the "professionals" to justify
that.

I've been speaking to the sales director who's been spot on so far. He
seems very keen on keeping us. He's even suggested getting a second
engineers report.

We sold a 100 year old house a few years ago. Various buyers had
surveyors come round. One was clearly just out of college and wrote up
everything that was wrong as though it was a modern house. The walls
weren.t square, the floor was uneven (it was stone flags), etc. The
buyer was told the foundations needed underpinning! A more experienced
surveyor looked at the house and concluded that any movement was old
and not progressing and gave the place a clean bill of health for an
old property.
Get a report from a surveyor who knows about older houses. It will be
good amunition to present to whoever buys it.

John

Thanks, John. How would I find a surveyor who knows about older
houses? Just ask for an old surveyor?

Most every house in the UK us likely to move a little bit in 100
years!..


Are you American? or is this proper English? i.e. the "Most every
house..." bit. I've seen Americans writing this way, but not the English.

Please advise.

Steve

In article ,
R.P.McMurphy writes


Most every house in the UK us likely to move a little bit in 100
years!..


Are you American? or is this proper English? i.e. the "Most every
house..." bit. I've seen Americans writing this way, but not the English.

Please advise.

Steve



Its ng: rather speed typing. cns y/slvs fnt its nt txt spk
--
Tony Sayer

Cicero wrote:
I doubt if there's anything to be gained by paying for a second opinion as
it's unlikely to change the collective mind of the building company with
whom you're dealing. In fact it might compromise your situation in a
future sale as it might show up something unpleasant that you might have
to disclose if HIPs become a reality.

Nowt to do with HIPS - for many years you've had to complete a seller's
disclosure form which would cover stuff like that.

David

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:43:56 +0000, Lobster wrote:

Cicero wrote:
I doubt if there's anything to be gained by paying for a second opinion
as it's unlikely to change the collective mind of the building company
with whom you're dealing. In fact it might compromise your situation in
a future sale as it might show up something unpleasant that you might
have to disclose if HIPs become a reality.
----------------------------------

Nowt to do with HIPS - for many years you've had to complete a seller's
disclosure form which would cover stuff like that.

David

==================================
My understanding is that HIPs were to include a mandatory Home Condition
Report(HCR) which was to be a minor property survey. I don't know
if the content of this report was ever clearly defined which is probably
the real reason for its present state of limbo. This was temporarily
removed some time before the proposed start date of the HIPs in June. It
was intended that the mandatory HCR would be restored at some time in the
future but of course that depends on the continuance of HIPs themselves
which appears to be rather doubtful but still possible.

A basic statement of the position he

http://www.aboutproperty.co.uk/news/buying-and-selling-property/home-information-packs/home-condition-report-shelved-$445138.htm


Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

Thanks, John. How would I find a surveyor who knows about older
houses? Just ask for an old surveyor? - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's actually not so daft as it sounds however you can tell the
surveyor what your problem is and see how they answer. You want
someone with experience of properties the same age as yours. I would
certainly avoid those who are recently qualified.

John