Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

"mike" wrote in message
...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"
If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.
--
Vass

"mike" wrote in message
...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Get something with a hard disc - I reckon the majority of recording TV is
merely for timeshifting, rather than recording for posterity, and an HD
recorder excels at this.

cheers,
clive

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
.. .
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"

Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)


If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.

I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks

mike wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)
you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"

Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)


If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.

I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks

Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of date
in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

mike wrote in news:vlli631v7cdr0gnrd76sltmipaaskoq2eo@
4ax.com:

Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)?

The answer's "yes", but just in case make sure they know you require the
feature (there's always a joker in the pack!)
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

As another poster says, go for a hard disc one while you're at it.

Ther's an essential difference between the PVR, with no DVD, but which
will always have a buffer of what you've been watching and can record at
the press of a button - for technical reasons these rarely (if ever) have
a DVD writer; it's a matter of how signals are encoced, another ng wiil
tell you more than I know (uk.tech.digital-tv).

But a HDD/DVD recorder _can_ given a little bit of notice, record what
you're watching, and catch up if you're called away, and replay while
it's still recording further along.

And if you want to keep something it will write it to DVD, top and tail,
remove ads, etc.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-RDR-HX525-Recorder-80GB-
Drive/dp/B000F5QUMW/ref=pd_sbs_ce_6/026-2636426-2420426

(watch the wrap)

Lots more like this

HTH

mike

In message , mike
writes
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

They are, but if the DVD is faulty, you've lost whatever you intended to
record

better to save up for one with a HDD inside

--
geoff

In message , Stuart Noble
writes
mike wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)
you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"
Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)

If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on
air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.
I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks

Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of
date in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in
handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

On most machines, 2 hours is the normal high quality capacity

mine will record up to 8 hours with reduced quality


--
geoff

In message , Clive
George writes
"mike" wrote in message
.. .
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Get something with a hard disc - I reckon the majority of recording TV
is merely for timeshifting, rather than recording for posterity, and an
HD recorder excels at this.

This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Clive
George writes
"mike" wrote in message
. ..
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Get something with a hard disc - I reckon the majority of recording TV is
merely for timeshifting, rather than recording for posterity, and an HD
recorder excels at this.

This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85

Is it twin tuner? I wouldn't be without that now.

cheers,
clive

Stuart Noble wrote:

mike wrote:

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...

Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"


Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)


If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.


I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks


Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of date
in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

I am about to buy at the bottom of the market, but something that you
wrote above makes me ask a question.

Can the low end recorders use DVD+RW DVDs? I thought that the format was
DVD-RW etc.

Dave

In message , Dave
writes
I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks
Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of
date in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in
handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

I am about to buy at the bottom of the market, but something that you
wrote above makes me ask a question.

Can the low end recorders use DVD+RW DVDs? I thought that the format
was DVD-RW etc.

I've always used DVD-Rs

The problem with bottom of the market recorders is that they tend to
have restricted features and non-intuitive menus

I would seriously think about getting a half decent one from Richer
sounds and take advantage of their redeemable extended warranty

From experience, it's a real ****er when the DVD player refuses to
recognise disks after 14 months

--
geoff

In message , Clive
George writes
"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Clive George writes
"mike" wrote in message
...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Get something with a hard disc - I reckon the majority of recording
TV is merely for timeshifting, rather than recording for posterity,
and an HD recorder excels at this.

This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85

Is it twin tuner? I wouldn't be without that now.

No, but I have an NTL/Virgin box as well, so effectively it doesn't, but
I do


--
geoff

"Dave" wrote in message
...

snip


Can the low end recorders use DVD+RW DVDs? I thought that the format was
DVD-RW etc.

Dave

AIUI; - it could be wrong - ;- once upon a time there were DVD's {that'll
stop pirating - nobody can afford a huge machine to copy - not like the
cassette recorders ]

Then a manufacturer/consortium produced 'recordable' DVDs - which they
marketed as ;-
DVD dash R! { it you're accosted by any body calling it DVD minus R
demonstrating he doesn't know their history and if its a spotty yoof in a
shed - walk away]

A different consortium sneaked around the patents and produced their own
recordable DVD; format; what could they call it ? - DVD plus R!

Then other folks produced DVD dash/plus R ..... DVDW/ R etc ... etc..

So; at the low end of the price range; one consortium offers dash R and
the other consortium offers plus R. The supermarkets seem to offer packs of
both styles of discs for a similar price so IMHO it doesn't really matter
which 'style' (dash/plus) your machine uses as you'll only buy the one type.

The capability of using both formats comes at a higher price ...

The capability of using R/W is another price level. BTW, after approx one
years usage; I've only used four R/W discs - and that was during the
'novelty phase' . I've archived probably fifty write-once discs.


--

Brian

Dave wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

mike wrote:

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...

Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"


Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)


If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.


I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks


Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of
date in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in
handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

I am about to buy at the bottom of the market, but something that you
wrote above makes me ask a question.

Can the low end recorders use DVD+RW DVDs? I thought that the format was
DVD-RW etc.

Dave

My recorder uses DVD+RW, and they don't come much cheaper than Alba.
I've just bought a new player for £30 just to get divx compatability,
and I believe that format is already old hat. In a couple of years there
probably won't be any discs, just a port to plug your card in.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Clive
George writes
"mike" wrote in message
. ..
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Get something with a hard disc - I reckon the majority of recording TV is
merely for timeshifting, rather than recording for posterity, and an HD
recorder excels at this.

This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago



http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85


This address no longer displays that product. Can you please supply details?
Thanks in advance.

Sylvain.


--
geoff

in 642895 20070608 204214 raden wrote:
In message , Stuart Noble
writes
mike wrote:
On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
m...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)
you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"
Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)

If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on
air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.
I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks

Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of
date in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in
handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

On most machines, 2 hours is the normal high quality capacity

mine will record up to 8 hours with reduced quality

I use the EP mode which gives 4 hours on a DVD+RW with no noticable
loss of quality.

in 642926 20070608 230518 Dave wrote:
Stuart Noble wrote:

mike wrote:

On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 14:27:55 +0100, "Vass"
wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
...

Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

you're confusing me with "off air" and then "as its transmitted"


Yes I know what you mean but (and this is an OT to my own OT) I
believe the correct term *is* "off air" meaning programmes that are
transmitted live ie It really means "off THE air" as opposed to
locally generated. At least I was told this by a BBC tech many years
ago - of course he could have been wrong :-)


If you want it to record to dvd as the program is live (i.e. "on air")
most have this feature.
cheap ones i've experienced have nightmare menu systems though
Best you go look at a few demo and find one you like.


I see. I hate those menu systems - so maybe a disc one is the only
real answer.
Thanks


Get the cheapest piece of crap you can find because it'll be out of date
in a year or two. Something that plays divx/xvid might come in handy.
Get a hard disc machine if you record a lot and need high quality.
Otherwise, dvd+rw discs store up to a couple of hours each

I am about to buy at the bottom of the market, but something that you
wrote above makes me ask a question.

Can the low end recorders use DVD+RW DVDs? I thought that the format was
DVD-RW etc.

Dave

I use one similar to http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Produc...er/5335361.htm
(mine is the DD-A101X) and it records to all + and - formats.

Brian Sharrock wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...

snip

Can the low end recorders use DVD+RW DVDs? I thought that the format was
DVD-RW etc.

Dave

AIUI; - it could be wrong - ;- once upon a time there were DVD's {that'll
stop pirating - nobody can afford a huge machine to copy - not like the
cassette recorders ]

Then a manufacturer/consortium produced 'recordable' DVDs - which they
marketed as ;-
DVD dash R! { it you're accosted by any body calling it DVD minus R
demonstrating he doesn't know their history and if its a spotty yoof in a
shed - walk away]

A different consortium sneaked around the patents and produced their own
recordable DVD; format; what could they call it ? - DVD plus R!

Then other folks produced DVD dash/plus R ..... DVDW/ R etc ... etc..

So; at the low end of the price range; one consortium offers dash R and
the other consortium offers plus R. The supermarkets seem to offer packs of
both styles of discs for a similar price so IMHO it doesn't really matter
which 'style' (dash/plus) your machine uses as you'll only buy the one type.

The capability of using both formats comes at a higher price ...

The capability of using R/W is another price level.

These days even the cheapest machines will record on +RW and +R and
play anything that looks vaguely like a disc.

BTW, after approx one
years usage; I've only used four R/W discs - and that was during the
'novelty phase' . I've archived probably fifty write-once discs.

AJH wrote:
On 8 Jun 2007 18:28:14 GMT, mike wrote:

And if you want to keep something it will write it to DVD, top and tail,
remove ads, etc.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-RDR-HX525-Recorder-80GB-
Drive/dp/B000F5QUMW/ref=pd_sbs_ce_6/026-2636426-2420426

It says it will download dv too, but will it? I bought a cheap liteon
one for my daughter that the specification said would download and
burn dvd from a dv camera but it failed to recognise her camera.

AJH



It would need to be pretty clever to remove ads. Doesn't it just insert
chapter points where a dramatic change of scene occurs so you can
manually skip them? If it's anything like the scene detection on video
capture programs, it won't be all that "intelligent" at all.

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:
http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85


This address no longer displays that product. Can you please supply details?
Thanks in advance.

Un-wrap the URL and it works.

Alex

"Alex" wrote in message
...
Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:
http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85


This address no longer displays that product. Can you please supply
details?
Thanks in advance.

Un-wrap the URL and it works.

Thanks. I got it this time.
That Panasonic is not my "cup of tea":
A 80 Gb HD Drive would be big enough for my needs; and as I don't need a TV
screen larger than 21 inches, I don't need/want High Definition TV.
So, the Hitachi HDR080 with 2 Freeview tuners and a 80 Gb HD Drive (no DVD
recorder) would suit me fine. It costs £119.95 or £159.90 with 3 years'
"Super Care" (from Richer Sounds).

Sylvain.

Alex

AJH wrote in
:


It says it will download dv too, but will it? I bought a cheap liteon
one for my daughter that the specification said would download and
burn dvd from a dv camera but it failed to recognise her camera.

AJH

Frankly, I don't know what that means! I use it mainly as a timeshifter;
But being a Sony it prolly does what it says on the label.
As for Clive's post below, if something has been recorded on HDD, it can
be manually cleaned up adn toppped and tailed, then transferred to DVD to
keep. The chaprter markers it inserts (default 6 mins?) don't come into it,
but are handy for stepping through a recording to find something, or if I'm
just watching a prog, as the first step in removing ads- going to the next
chapter may leave you somewhere in the ad break, so FF, or beyond it, so
FR. If you're very lucky it may be spot on.


mike

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember mike saying
something like:

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Argos do the cheap 'n cheerful Wharfedale DVDHDR400 for around 100ukp,
slightly more with a freeview tuner.
The menu has it's quirks, but it's quite useable.
--

Dave

In message , Sylvain VAN DER
WALDE writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Clive
George writes
"mike" wrote in message
...
Am looking around to replace our failed DVD/VHS combo with a
read/writable DVD combo and just wondered - are these thing generally
able to record straight to the DVD off-air (ie record the TV programme
to DVD as it's transmitted)? Or is that a feature of the "more
expensive" models?
I've only got £150 for this so is not going to be a rolls royce
machine :-)

btw any suggestions for a make-model for that price appreciated -
it'll probably be an ebay variety!

Get something with a hard disc - I reckon the majority of recording TV is
merely for timeshifting, rather than recording for posterity, and an HD
recorder excels at this.

This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago



http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...t&pid=PANA-DMR
EX85


This address no longer displays that product. Can you please supply details?
Thanks in advance.


Type Panasonic as the manufacturer and DVD recorder as the type

the bottom one on the page

"Panasonic DMREX85 (DVD Recorder-With MR playback,HDMI, Freeview and
250GB hard drive)"
--
geoff

"Clive George" wrote in
:


This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...roduct&pid=PAN
DMR EX85

Is it twin tuner? I wouldn't be without that now.

I think a twin tuner would be nice ( I occasionaly have an HDD recorder,
a DVD recorder and a VCR all recording at once - and it's all old films;
how sad am I?)

But here just outside the M25 on the wrong side of the hill, Freeview is
unacceptable, _and you can't get film 4 on sky FTA_ !

mike

In message , mike
writes
"Clive George" wrote in
:


This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...roduct&pid=PAN
DMR EX85

Is it twin tuner? I wouldn't be without that now.

I think a twin tuner would be nice ( I occasionaly have an HDD recorder,
a DVD recorder and a VCR all recording at once - and it's all old films;
how sad am I?)

Pah - at full stretch, I can have 3 HDD and 2 DVDs recording
simultaneously

I've stopped recording on videos, do you want some ?


--
geoff

On 9 Jun, 21:11, mike wrote:
"Clive George" wrote :



This is a seriously good machine, I bought one a few months ago

http://www.richersounds.com/showprod...roduct&pid=PAN
DMR EX85

Is it twin tuner? I wouldn't be without that now.

I think a twin tuner would be nice ( I occasionaly have an HDD recorder,
a DVD recorder and a VCR all recording at once - and it's all old films;
how sad am I?)

But here just outside the M25 on the wrong side of the hill, Freeview is
unacceptable, _and you can't get film 4 on sky FTA_ !

You can't? I thought it went FTA some time back, or is it FTV?