Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is Bean.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name
is Bean.

I have to agree with Mr Hall here. I've had an Argos own label drill driver
& a reciprocating saw - they both ended up in the bin. Complete ****e.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On May 31, 11:50 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49

Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name
is Bean.

I have to agree with Mr Hall here. I've had an Argos own label drill driver
& a reciprocating saw - they both ended up in the bin. Complete ****e.

But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use. The OP didn't specify what they want it for.

I've been using my Challenge Extreme 3/8" Router to cut hinge rebates
in a load of internal doors (14 at tthe last count) and it has been
brilliant. Much faster, more efficient and neater than I could ever
hope to achieve with a chisel. To me, it's worth more than I paid for
it in time saved alone. It's back in the cupboard now, until the next
time I need a router for something.

MBQ

On 2007-06-01 12:10:11 +0100, "
said:

On May 31, 11:50 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49

Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name
is Bean.

I have to agree with Mr Hall here. I've had an Argos own label drill dri
ver
& a reciprocating saw - they both ended up in the bin. Complete ****e.

But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use. The OP didn't specify what they want it for.

There is not a correlation between the notion of "occasional DIY use"
and whether or not the tool is good enough for the job.

Either it is, or it isn't.

It might be safe, accurate, usable, repeatable and adequately powered,
but only rated to run for 10 minutes each fortnight. That would be
reasonable DIY use, but is not likely to be found in one tool.

More likely is that it will fall short on most or all of these issues
or be adequate for the purpose.

It doesn't make sense to say that because a tool is only for occasional
DIY use that it's therefore OK to buy the lowest priced inadequate one.

If the issue is purchase price, then there also has to be an acceptance
of a loss of quality in the outcome. That isn't related to the
frequency of use.

On Jun 1, 1:01 pm, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-06-01 12:10:11 +0100, "
said:





On May 31, 11:50 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49

Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name
is Bean.

I have to agree with Mr Hall here. I've had an Argos own label drill dri
ver
& a reciprocating saw - they both ended up in the bin. Complete ****e.

But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use. The OP didn't specify what they want it for.

There is not a correlation between the notion of "occasional DIY use"
and whether or not the tool is good enough for the job.

Either it is, or it isn't.

It is.


It might be safe, accurate, usable, repeatable and adequately powered,
but only rated to run for 10 minutes each fortnight. That would be
reasonable DIY use, but is not likely to be found in one tool.

10 mins/fortnight sounds like occasional use to me.


More likely is that it will fall short on most or all of these issues
or be adequate for the purpose.

It was adequate for the purpose, all purposes during the 5 years I've
had it.


It doesn't make sense to say that because a tool is only for occasional
DIY use that it's therefore OK to buy the lowest priced inadequate one.

I never said anything about it being the lowest price or inadequate.
It quite clearly is adequate. Just ask SWMBO about the good job I did
on the doors;-)


If the issue is purchase price, then there also has to be an acceptance
of a loss of quality in the outcome.

Not absolutely. Quality and purchase price do not go hand in hand.
Money CAN by better quality, it can also pay for the "brand".

That isn't related to the
frequency of use

MBQ

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 31, 11:50 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49

Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name
is Bean.

I have to agree with Mr Hall here. I've had an Argos own label drill
driver
& a reciprocating saw - they both ended up in the bin. Complete ****e.

But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use. The OP didn't specify what they want it for.

I've been using my Challenge Extreme 3/8" Router to cut hinge rebates
in a load of internal doors (14 at tthe last count) and it has been
brilliant. Much faster, more efficient and neater than I could ever
hope to achieve with a chisel. To me, it's worth more than I paid for
it in time saved alone. It's back in the cupboard now, until the next
time I need a router for something.

MBQ

I wouldn't worry about it,he buys his tools from wickes. :0) virtually argos
brands.

George wrote:


But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use. The OP didn't specify what they want it for.

I wasn't a tradesman when I bought the Argos stuff, just DIY & they were
crap. The chuck on the drill driver keep working loose, the batteries
failed to keep a charge after a short while & the blades wouldn't stay in
the recip saw.

I wouldn't worry about it,he buys his tools from wickes. :0)
virtually argos brands.

Wickes black range I'd agree, but the grey range is mainly made by Kress in
Germany and is mostly very good indeed. I'd rate the SDS against any make
for performance.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 04:10:11 -0700, "
wrote:

But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use.

Yes, tradesmen wil use any old crap if they have to, because they have
to. We only do it because it's fun, so if it isn't fun, why do it?

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2007 04:10:11 -0700, "
wrote:

But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use.

Yes, tradesmen wil use any old crap if they have to, because they have
to. We only do it because it's fun, so if it isn't fun, why do it?


Tradesmen need good quality tools so they can use blunt cutters and not
burn the motor out. I'd go for a sharp cutter in an Argos router if I
had to economise.

On Jun 1, 12:10 pm, "
wrote:
But you're a tradesman and depend upon your tools. It's different for
occasional DIY use. The OP didn't specify what they want it for.

I've been using my Challenge Extreme 3/8" Router to cut hinge rebates
in a load of internal doors (14 at tthe last count) and it has been
brilliant. Much faster, more efficient and neater than I could ever
hope to achieve with a chisel. To me, it's worth more than I paid for
it in time saved alone. It's back in the cupboard now, until the next
time I need a router for something.

Hi,

I also have the 3/8 'Xtreme' router, on mine the plunge lock lever
sheared where it's moulded to fit on a hex nut.

Also it was very hard to get the 1/4" collet to grip router bits well,
they would tend to go loose while it was running!

I think the 1/2" router mentioned above would be OK, as long as care
is taken if the plunge lock lever is the same sort of plastic.

The g'tee can be extended to 3 years for a fiver, and Argos are pretty
good at refunds if it's crap or breaks.

Probably worth having as a cheap second router to put in a table which
is what I'll do with my 3/8" one.

cheers,
Pete.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is
Bean.



Oh come now MrHall if the tool is for the occasional use it is worth the
money the only time a more expensive router should be bought is...when it
has to earn its keep.

If the person who is not fussy on accurate cuts then its for them to decide

On 2007-06-01 16:09:16 +0100, "George" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is
Bean.



Oh come now MrHall if the tool is for the occasional use it is worth the
money the only time a more expensive router should be bought is...when it
has to earn its keep.

No. Again. The amount of use is not really the issue - it's the
quality of the result required and the price than one is willing to pay
for that.



If the person who is not fussy on accurate cuts then its for them to decide

That's right.

What does not compute is that a small amount of use doesn't justify a
quality tool. The price/use discussion is a completely different one
to the price/quality of result one.

Amount of use/quality as a discussion point makes no sense.

Generally quality is influenced by price (notwithstanding brand value
and the customer has to decide that). As a result, amount of use is a
red herring to the discussion of good vs. poor quality tools.

It is really an issue of deciding what one is willing to pay and
accepting the resulting quality or deciding what level of quality one
will accept and paying the price to achieve that.

If the issue is that the activity is infrequent, then the solution is
to rent a good quality tool rather than buying a poor one.

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:08:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-06-01 16:09:16 +0100, "George" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is
Bean.



Oh come now MrHall if the tool is for the occasional use it is worth the
money the only time a more expensive router should be bought is...when it
has to earn its keep.

No. Again. The amount of use is not really the issue - it's the
quality of the result required and the price than one is willing to pay
for that.

I would suggest that the quality of the final result is only partially
determined by the quality of the tools used. A big factor is the
experience of the user.
If they don't use a router (or any other tool) regularly, the end result
will be of a lower standard than from someone, like a professional, who
uses that tool 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. In that case, where there's
an upper limit on the "quality" of work produced, it makes good financial
sense to use a standard of tool that is commensurate with the skill of
the user.

Pete

--
.................................................. .........................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

On 2007-06-01 17:44:46 +0100, Peter Lynch said:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 17:08:36 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-06-01 16:09:16 +0100, "George" said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is
Bean.



Oh come now MrHall if the tool is for the occasional use it is worth the
money the only time a more expensive router should be bought is...when it
has to earn its keep.

No. Again. The amount of use is not really the issue - it's the
quality of the result required and the price than one is willing to pay
for that.

I would suggest that the quality of the final result is only partially
determined by the quality of the tools used. A big factor is the
experience of the user.
If they don't use a router (or any other tool) regularly, the end result
will be of a lower standard than from someone, like a professional, who
uses that tool 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

To some extent that may be true, but for most woodworking power tools
the issue is much closer to one of learning to ride a bike. In other
words, once the techniques have been learned, often through trial and
error, they are not forgotten - for example in the case of a router how
the work is supported and the machine held and run.

This may take some practice and hence an investment in time, but I
don't buy the argument that regular use is required to develop and
maintain skill level. It isn't athletics.



In that case, where there's
an upper limit on the "quality" of work produced, it makes good financial
sense to use a standard of tool that is commensurate with the skill of
the user.

I think that there is a degree of truth in that but that it relates
much more to hand tools or the combination of hand tools with a machine
(e.g. woodturning lathe).

George wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is
Bean.



Oh come now MrHall if the tool is for the occasional use it is worth the
money the only time a more expensive router should be bought is...when it
has to earn its keep.

If the person who is not fussy on accurate cuts then its for them to decide

On the point of a router, if the rotation is so sloppy that it cannot be
accurate then it will not only shake itself to bits it will be
dangerous. The main input as to accuracy is the quality of the bit [1]
and how sharp it is. Issues of fine height adjusters and micro
adjustable fences are more time savers than true accuracy aids. The
argument for buying a cheap router is the necessity of getting a job
done within a budget. Which is why my first and second routers were
Power Devils, I sunk my money into reasonably decent bits (Trend
largely). The first one still runs, it has been permanently in my table
since I bought the second one. When the second one died (blown upper
bearings which wrecked the bushes etc) I had enough to get a T5.

If I had an urgent need to run a half inch bit (panel raising is
probably the most likely use), I might be tempted by such a router,
provided I could fit it on my table. Especially since decent 1/2" panel
raising bits aren't cheap ;-)

[1] Caveats about pushing the motor too hard notwithstanding.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
www.the-brights.net

On 2007-06-01 18:23:43 +0100, (Peter Ashby) said:

George wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-05-31 22:05:39 +0100, "Arthur" said:

Might do someone.
Challenge Xtreme 1500W 1/2in Plunge Router £27.49


Arthur

For doing what? Far too fast for stirring paint unless your name is
Bean.



Oh come now MrHall if the tool is for the occasional use it is worth the
money the only time a more expensive router should be bought is...when it
has to earn its keep.

If the person who is not fussy on accurate cuts then its for them to decide

On the point of a router, if the rotation is so sloppy that it cannot be
accurate then it will not only shake itself to bits it will be
dangerous. The main input as to accuracy is the quality of the bit [1]
and how sharp it is.

That's one factor. Another, in terms of both safety and outcome is how
well the plunge mechanism works. If it isn't silky smooth then the
motor will tend to jump in height during plunge and release causing
defects to the cut and the user not being able to prevent slight
movements in the wrong direction as it jumps.


Issues of fine height adjusters and micro
adjustable fences are more time savers than true accuracy aids. The
argument for buying a cheap router is the necessity of getting a job
done within a budget. Which is why my first and second routers were
Power Devils, I sunk my money into reasonably decent bits (Trend
largely). The first one still runs, it has been permanently in my table
since I bought the second one. When the second one died (blown upper
bearings which wrecked the bushes etc) I had enough to get a T5.

But the money spent on the Power Devils could have gone towards the
cost of the T5 and the overall investment would have been less.

I do agree about getting decent bits such as Trend, CMT and Freud.



If I had an urgent need to run a half inch bit (panel raising is
probably the most likely use), I might be tempted by such a router,
provided I could fit it on my table. Especially since decent 1/2" panel
raising bits aren't cheap ;-)

[1] Caveats about pushing the motor too hard notwithstanding.

I think you would be disappointed. The mechanical watts output of
this class of router is poor for the input power. It's the same
marketing as laser guides on tools. Claim a power of 2000W vs. the
proper router's 1800W and it looks as though the former is better.
Tick in the box. The fact that it is misleading and that laser guides
are mainly ornamental is pure marketing.

Andy Hall wrote:

Issues of fine height adjusters and micro
adjustable fences are more time savers than true accuracy aids. The
argument for buying a cheap router is the necessity of getting a job
done within a budget. Which is why my first and second routers were
Power Devils, I sunk my money into reasonably decent bits (Trend
largely). The first one still runs, it has been permanently in my table
since I bought the second one. When the second one died (blown upper
bearings which wrecked the bushes etc) I had enough to get a T5.

But the money spent on the Power Devils could have gone towards the
cost of the T5 and the overall investment would have been less.

Except that at the time I couldn't afford both a T5 and the Trend bits I
needed. As I said the first one is still doing sterling service inverted
in the table. That means it gets all the bigger diameter 8mm bits.

I do agree about getting decent bits such as Trend, CMT and Freud.



If I had an urgent need to run a half inch bit (panel raising is
probably the most likely use), I might be tempted by such a router,
provided I could fit it on my table. Especially since decent 1/2" panel
raising bits aren't cheap ;-)

[1] Caveats about pushing the motor too hard notwithstanding.

I think you would be disappointed. The mechanical watts output of
this class of router is poor for the input power. It's the same
marketing as laser guides on tools. Claim a power of 2000W vs. the
proper router's 1800W and it looks as though the former is better.
Tick in the box. The fact that it is misleading and that laser guides
are mainly ornamental is pure marketing.

I agree that it is indeed underpowered for a 1/2" router, however it
will still take 1/2" bits and used carefully there is no reason why it
can't do a job perfectly adequately. You will for eg spend more hiring
one for the weekend.

Peter
--
Add my middle initial to email me. It has become attached to a country
www.the-brights.net