As I understand it Planning Permission usually evaporates if the work
isn't started within 5 years. If PP has been granted and the work
starts, am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter how long it takes
to complete the PP will stand ad infinitum ?

If this IS so what constitutes 'starting' ? I am in the process of
buying a house that has a barn with PP to convert to a dwelling. I
don't want to convert it, but I do want to keep the PP alive and
don't want the issues that can be raised by re-submissions every 5
years as guidelines change.

The plans for conversion naturally call for a new concrete floor to be
laid, which I need anyway for my use of the barn. If I laid the new
floor would that count as 'starting' ?

AWEM

The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

The plans for conversion naturally call for a new concrete floor to be
laid, which I need anyway for my use of the barn. If I laid the new
floor would that count as 'starting' ?

I would have thought so but with so much at stake it would be best to
consult a lawyer.

ISTR reading a law report in a national newspaper some years ago on this
point where, IIRC, grubbing out the hedge to gain access to the site was
held to be 'starting'.

ISTM that the floor will need to comply with BRs (well insulated) and
you will be stung for the cost of a building notice even if you don't
have to submit plans. I don't know whether or not the building notice
would be open ended. There are time limits getting submitted plans
approved which is the only route I have gone down so far.

--
Roger Chapman

On Wed, 23 May 2007 18:01:27 +0100, Roger
wrote:

The message
from "Andrew Mawson" contains
these words:

The plans for conversion naturally call for a new concrete floor to be
laid, which I need anyway for my use of the barn. If I laid the new
floor would that count as 'starting' ?

I would have thought so but with so much at stake it would be best to
consult a lawyer.

ISTR reading a law report in a national newspaper some years ago on this
point where, IIRC, grubbing out the hedge to gain access to the site was
held to be 'starting'.

ISTM that the floor will need to comply with BRs (well insulated) and
you will be stung for the cost of a building notice even if you don't
have to submit plans. I don't know whether or not the building notice
would be open ended. There are time limits getting submitted plans
approved which is the only route I have gone down so far.

Check what conditions were imposed in the planning permission, you may
find it has to be completed within a set period.
Robert

Andrew Mawson wrote:
As I understand it Planning Permission usually evaporates if the work
isn't started within 5 years. If PP has been granted and the work
starts, am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter how long it takes
to complete the PP will stand ad infinitum ?

You need to look at the specific planning permission to see what the time
limit is. It may specify a completion date as well as a start date. Not
common but it does happen

If this IS so what constitutes 'starting' ? I am in the process of
buying a house that has a barn with PP to convert to a dwelling. I
don't want to convert it, but I do want to keep the PP alive and
don't want the issues that can be raised by re-submissions every 5
years as guidelines change.

You might find yourself served with a completion notice if the local
authority realise you are taking the mickey and have no genuine intention of
doing the conversion.

The plans for conversion naturally call for a new concrete floor to be
laid, which I need anyway for my use of the barn. If I laid the new
floor would that count as 'starting' ?

There is quite a lot of case law on this and you realy need to take paid for
professional advice from someone that has a proven track record. Even so you
cannot be certain.

Peter Crosland

On Wed, 23 May 2007 17:32:51 +0100 Andrew Mawson wrote :
As I understand it Planning Permission usually evaporates if the
work isn't started within 5 years. If PP has been granted and
the work starts, am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter how
long it takes to complete the PP will stand ad infinitum ?

Save that the Planning Authority can serve a Completion Notice -
have never heard of one being served though


If this IS so what constitutes 'starting' ? I am in the process of
buying a house that has a barn with PP to convert to a dwelling. I
don't want to convert it, but I do want to keep the PP alive and
don't want the issues that can be raised by re-submissions every
5 years as guidelines change.

Town & Country Planning Act 1990 s.56(4), basically

1. Some form of construction work
2. Digging a foundation trench
3. Laying pipes, services or foundations
4. Laying out or constructing a road
5. Changing the use of the land in a material way

There are quite a few legal cases on this subject!


--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 May 2007 17:32:51 +0100 Andrew Mawson wrote :
As I understand it Planning Permission usually evaporates if the
work isn't started within 5 years. If PP has been granted and
the work starts, am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter how
long it takes to complete the PP will stand ad infinitum ?

Save that the Planning Authority can serve a Completion Notice -
have never heard of one being served though


If this IS so what constitutes 'starting' ? I am in the process of
buying a house that has a barn with PP to convert to a dwelling. I
don't want to convert it, but I do want to keep the PP alive and
don't want the issues that can be raised by re-submissions every
5 years as guidelines change.

Town & Country Planning Act 1990 s.56(4), basically

1. Some form of construction work
2. Digging a foundation trench
3. Laying pipes, services or foundations
4. Laying out or constructing a road
5. Changing the use of the land in a material way

There are quite a few legal cases on this subject!


--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


The legislation has been changed thanks to the ODPM ;-
PP is now only valid for _three_ years. [From granting of PP ... don't know
how they define start nor end]

--

Brian

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Brian Sharrock wrote:


The legislation has been changed thanks to the ODPM ;-
PP is now only valid for _three_ years. [From granting of PP ...
don't know how they define start nor end]

Nor do I! The permission granted for my garage - less than a year ago -
says:

"The development hereby permitted must be begun not later than the
expiration of three years from the date of this permission. REASON: To
comply with Section 91 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, as amended
by Section 51 of the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004."

It doesn't define 'begun' - nor does it specify a latest completion date.
Not that it matters in my case - the whole thing was done and dusted within
weeks of the permission being granted.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
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PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
...
As I understand it Planning Permission usually evaporates if the work
isn't started within 5 years. If PP has been granted and the work
starts, am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter how long it takes
to complete the PP will stand ad infinitum ?

If this IS so what constitutes 'starting' ? I am in the process of
buying a house that has a barn with PP to convert to a dwelling. I
don't want to convert it, but I do want to keep the PP alive and
don't want the issues that can be raised by re-submissions every 5
years as guidelines change.

The plans for conversion naturally call for a new concrete floor to be
laid, which I need anyway for my use of the barn. If I laid the new
floor would that count as 'starting' ?

AWEM

Sorry to "hijack" the thread Andrew but a question popped into my head which
is something similar, yet completely different )

I am a licenced radio ham and probably 15 or 16 years ago I applied for, and
was granted, planning permission to erect an aerial tower in my back garden.
The work was done and the tower duly erected. However, about 5 years ago I
became sorely disillusioned with ham radio and sold all my gear off,
including the aerial tower and aerials.

If I ever become interested enough again at some point in the future, would
I just be able to erect a new tower (same height and specs as the original,
of course) without going through the process again?

Cheers,

John

When we looked towards extending our house in 2000 we contacted the council.
They said "It did have planning for what you're proposing back in 1976 but
as it was never started it's long expired"

Looking at the outline I replied "well you obviously haven't seen my
kitchen"

Turns out that planning was granted back then for a two story extension but
somewhere way back a single story was built but the council was never
informed!

Once they'd agreed I did indeed have a kitchen as proposed they then
considered the project 'started within 10 years' so we finished it off as
per original plans -Which was nice as they wanted us to do the silly 'step
back' at the front to signify the old/new but the approved plans were for no
join ;-)

Cheers

Richard