We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December. Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid of the smell?

Thanks

In message , Tony 9-5
writes

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December. Since
then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell?

A few dead bodies in shallow graves ... ?


--
geoff

On 1 May, 22:05, Tony 9-5 wrote:

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December. Since
then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid of
the smell?

Thanks

period property forum:

http://periodpropertyshop.co.uk/phpB...1c398096 0b65

"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December. Since
then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid of
the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Tony 9-5 wrote:
We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December. Since
then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid of
the smell?

Thanks




Does it have a chimney? If so these are impossible to damp proof properly.

They are too large to get injections into.

R wrote:
The floor in the
lounge is concrete but


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow


?....

The message
from Tony 9-5 contains these words:

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December. Since
then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid of
the smell?

I had a similar problem when I moved into my Yorkshire hovel years ago.
It turned out that what passed as the hearth (flags cemented directly
onto damp earth) in the capped chimney was the source of the smell. The
temporary fix was to removed the flags and the mud immediately beneath
and put in loose stones that allowed the earth surface to dry out. It
is still in operation (mumble mumble) years later waiting on me getting
round to replacing the whole floor which has a very shoddy DPM.

--
Roger Chapman

In message , Tony 9-5
writes

we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid of
the smell?

We have it in one room downstairs. We have lessened it by opening up
the chimney and unsealing the old sash windows so drafts come through.
Additionally we always have the central heating radiator come on for an
hour in that room every morning, even in the summer.

Although I tend to agree with you about the cause, I can't face digging
the floor in that room up at present ....

Val
--
Val Davies

R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid
of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra" said:

R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is the
original part of the house with additions built much later. I'm told
that many properties of this age in this location ( East Anglian, UK)
where built without proper foundations directly onto the soil. The
lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment carried out on it
some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms.

Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in the
lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid
of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?


The typical scenario in properties of this type is that over the years,
the outside ground level has been built up with various layers of
earth, concrete and whatever else is needed to install plastic gnomes.

The air bricks get covered over and have probably become filled with
crud anyway. The result is no air flow. That results in said earthy
smell as a result of lack of air flow if one is very lucky; wet
rot/cellar fungus and weevils if one is semi lucky and dry rot if one
is unlucky.

Two things need to be done.

- Identify the air bricks at the edges of the house and check that they
are clear and unblocked. This may mean excavating a channel about
250mm wide to two courses below the air brick and filling it with
gravel.

- Check for damage to the timber. Dry rot manifests as white cotton
wool stuff and/or a purple/brown fruiting body. Wood tends to break
into fairly large cubed structure. Treatment is removal of all
affected timber plus healthy timber from a metre around, removal of
plaster in th vicinity if the fungus has reached it and treatment with
a proper solvent based dry rot killer. This is followed by
reinstatement.

Wet rot/cellar fungus/weevil is much more common and tends to attack
the ends of joists causing them to crumble.
This again involves cutting away the affected wood, but often repair
can be done by building a sleeper wall inside the house wall and using
that to support the main joists plus the ends of new ones.

Ventilation, clearing air bricks are the most effective solutions.
There is no need to use injection damp proof courses if this is done.
Finally, yes, there should absolutely be some digging.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is
the original part of the house with additions built much later.
I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East
Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto
the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment
carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any
of the rooms. Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The
floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid
of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why there's all
the funny angles!

On 2007-05-03 15:11:12 +0100, " cupra" said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is
the original part of the house with additions built much later.
I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East
Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto
the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment
carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any
of the rooms. Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The
floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid
of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why there's all
the funny angles!

That was perfectly normal in those days, but there are still air bricks
which should be uncovered.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-03 15:11:12 +0100, " cupra" said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is
the original part of the house with additions built much later.
I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East
Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto
the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment
carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any
of the rooms. Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell?
The
floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid
of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why there's all
the funny angles!

That was perfectly normal in those days, but there are still air bricks
which should be uncovered.

With a solid concrete floor?? hardly..

Folks

Many thanks for the valuable comments and advice. The outside of the property has had a lot of work done on it so airbricks may have been covered, although I thought the floor was solid.

Anyway as soon as the work in the bathroom is complete, cosmetic revamp, I'll start investigating properly.

thanks again.

Tony

On 2007-05-03 20:48:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-03 15:11:12 +0100, " cupra" said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is
the original part of the house with additions built much later.
I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East
Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto
the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment
carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any
of the rooms. Has anyone any idea what could be causing the smell? The
floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't sealed
properly any suggestions as to the best course of action to get rid
of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why there's all
the funny angles!

That was perfectly normal in those days, but there are still air bricks
which should be uncovered.

With a solid concrete floor?? hardly..

One has to ask the question as to why that was done. I detect bodge here.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-03 15:11:12 +0100, " cupra"
said:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is
the original part of the house with additions built much later.
I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East
Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto
the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment
carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any
of the rooms. Has anyone any idea what could be causing the
smell? The floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't
sealed properly any suggestions as to the best course of action
to get rid of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air
flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why
there's all the funny angles!

That was perfectly normal in those days, but there are still air
bricks which should be uncovered.

My house doesn't have any underfloor, it doesn't have any air bricks.....
how an I supposed to uncover features that don't exist?!

On 2007-05-04 08:16:45 +0100, " cupra" said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-03 15:11:12 +0100, " cupra"
said:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in December.
Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the lounge. This is
the original part of the house with additions built much later.
I'm told that many properties of this age in this location ( East
Anglian, UK) where built without proper foundations directly onto
the soil. The lounge has solid walls and had a damproof treatment
carried out on it some years ago. There is no sign of damp in any
of the rooms. Has anyone any idea what could be causing the
smell? The floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't
sealed properly any suggestions as to the best course of action
to get rid of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air
flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why
there's all the funny angles!

That was perfectly normal in those days, but there are still air
bricks which should be uncovered.

My house doesn't have any underfloor, it doesn't have any air bricks.....
how an I supposed to uncover features that don't exist?!

Are you sure that the concrete floor is original?

Are you sure that the air bricks are not simply below ground level?

The normal construction for a house of this era was to have a suspended
timber floor and air bricks around the periphery of the building to
ventilate it.

Then people not knowing any better would build up the outside ground
level over the years, block air bricks and DPC if there was one.

A more recent "house renovation" trick has been to take out decayed
timber floors and pour in concrete. This should of course involve the
use of a DPC layer, properly installed to prevent damp penetrating
through. However, I have certainly seen houses, of a similar
description to yours where an old property has been purchased by a
cowboy developer and had this treatment but without the DPC layer in
the floor. The result is dampness and the earthy smell you describe.
The motivation is a quick purchase, fix and sale by the "developer".

If you are certain that this hasn't been done, then one possibility
would be to seal the floor with a heavy grade material normally used
for tanking cellars. Whether that would work is another matter. It
might cause migrationof the damp elsewhere. The other alternative
would be to take the floor out altogether and replace it with one
constructed with a DPC.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-04 08:16:45 +0100, " cupra"
said:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-03 15:11:12 +0100, " cupra"
said:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-02 21:14:11 +0100, " cupra"
said:
R wrote:
"Tony 9-5" wrote in message
...

We moved into a extensively renovated 1890's cottage in
December. Since then we have noticed an earthy smell in the
lounge. This is the original part of the house with additions
built much later. I'm told that many properties of this age in
this location ( East Anglian, UK) where built without proper
foundations directly onto the soil. The lounge has solid walls
and had a damproof treatment carried out on it some years ago.
There is no sign of damp in any of the rooms. Has anyone any
idea what could be causing the smell? The floor in
the lounge is concrete but If, as I suspect, the floor isn't
sealed properly any suggestions as to the best course of action
to get rid of the smell?


Underfloor ventilation required.
Uncover the grilles at each end of the property and let the air
flow

Too much digging required IMO.....

Huh?

From the OP:

" built without proper foundations directly onto the soil"

Incidentally, that's how my house is constructed - that's why
there's all the funny angles!

That was perfectly normal in those days, but there are still air
bricks which should be uncovered.

My house doesn't have any underfloor, it doesn't have any air
bricks..... how an I supposed to uncover features that don't exist?!

Are you sure that the concrete floor is original?

Are you sure that the air bricks are not simply below ground level?

The normal construction for a house of this era was to have a
suspended timber floor and air bricks around the periphery of the
building to ventilate it.

Then people not knowing any better would build up the outside ground
level over the years, block air bricks and DPC if there was one.

A more recent "house renovation" trick has been to take out decayed
timber floors and pour in concrete. This should of course involve
the use of a DPC layer, properly installed to prevent damp penetrating
through. However, I have certainly seen houses, of a similar
description to yours where an old property has been purchased by a
cowboy developer and had this treatment but without the DPC layer in
the floor. The result is dampness and the earthy smell you
describe. The motivation is a quick purchase, fix and sale by the
"developer".
If you are certain that this hasn't been done, then one possibility
would be to seal the floor with a heavy grade material normally used
for tanking cellars. Whether that would work is another matter. It
might cause migrationof the damp elsewhere. The other alternative
would be to take the floor out altogether and replace it with one
constructed with a DPC.

I'm not the OP so I haven't got the problem; my house is circa 1800, built
wihout foundation (confirmed when excavations made for extension) and the
original flooring (stone) has been removed with DPC/concrete in it's place.

(I was adding my 'take' on his possible problem with a comparative
construction, if indeed he is correct)

Owain wrote:
cupra wrote:
My house doesn't have any underfloor, it doesn't have any air
bricks..... how an I supposed to uncover features that don't exist?!

Wiv an SDS drill innit. That's how I uncovered a natural brick
chimneypiece when putting up the xmas deccies.

lol

On 2007-05-04 08:55:53 +0100, Owain said:

cupra wrote:
My house doesn't have any underfloor, it doesn't have any air
bricks..... how an I supposed to uncover features that don't exist?!

Wiv an SDS drill innit. That's how I uncovered a natural brick
chimneypiece when putting up the xmas deccies.

Owain

Most people use *paper* chains for Christmas decorations.... Was the
need for the SDS drill because your chains came from one of the
shipyards on the Clyde? ;-)

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

With a solid concrete floor?? hardly..

One has to ask the question as to why that was done. I detect bodge here.

Not necessarily. Suspended wood floors in my hovel would have meant that
the void extending below the base of the wall on the uphill side.
(Effectively no foundations that side whatsoever). The concrete floor
was a direct replacement for the original stone flags.

--
Roger Chapman

On 2007-05-04 18:46:01 +0100, Roger said:

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

With a solid concrete floor?? hardly..

One has to ask the question as to why that was done. I detect bodge here.

Not necessarily. Suspended wood floors in my hovel would have meant that
the void extending below the base of the wall on the uphill side.
(Effectively no foundations that side whatsoever). The concrete floor
was a direct replacement for the original stone flags.

OK. The difficulty comes when there is not damp proofing.


I suppose that it's also possible that people were less fussy about the
odd earth smell in those days, or perhaps that the place was scrubbed
daily with carbolic anyway..

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

With a solid concrete floor?? hardly..

One has to ask the question as to why that was done. I detect
bodge here.

Not necessarily. Suspended wood floors in my hovel would have meant that
the void extending below the base of the wall on the uphill side.
(Effectively no foundations that side whatsoever). The concrete floor
was a direct replacement for the original stone flags.

OK. The difficulty comes when there is not damp proofing.


I suppose that it's also possible that people were less fussy about the
odd earth smell in those days, or perhaps that the place was scrubbed
daily with carbolic anyway..

It could be that the cracks between the flags were sufficient to allow
the earth beneath to dry enough not to smell. My crap concrete floor has
a dpm of sorts under it which didn't extend under the hearth (as
previously mentioned) which gave rise to an earthy smell that I just
couldn't get used to, hence the remedial work.

I have a walk-in cupboard on the ground floor that is still flagged and
I don't notice any smell in there but then I never spend more than a few
moments in there at an one time. But one can become desensitised to some
smells. Whenever I return after a week or more away I notice the odour
from the wood treatment that was done more than 30 years ago but after a
very short while I no longer notice it.

--
Roger Chapman

On 2007-05-04 20:34:51 +0100, Roger said:


I have a walk-in cupboard on the ground floor that is still flagged and
I don't notice any smell in there but then I never spend more than a few
moments in there at an one time. But one can become desensitised to some
smells. Whenever I return after a week or more away I notice the odour
from the wood treatment that was done more than 30 years ago but after a
very short while I no longer notice it.

But perhaps that could also be because the house is shut up while you
are away and then ventilated when you return.

Roger wrote:
The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

With a solid concrete floor?? hardly..
One has to ask the question as to why that was done. I detect
bodge here.
Not necessarily. Suspended wood floors in my hovel would have meant that
the void extending below the base of the wall on the uphill side.
(Effectively no foundations that side whatsoever). The concrete floor
was a direct replacement for the original stone flags.

OK. The difficulty comes when there is not damp proofing.


I suppose that it's also possible that people were less fussy about the
odd earth smell in those days, or perhaps that the place was scrubbed
daily with carbolic anyway..

It could be that the cracks between the flags were sufficient to allow
the earth beneath to dry enough not to smell. My crap concrete floor has
a dpm of sorts under it which didn't extend under the hearth (as
previously mentioned) which gave rise to an earthy smell that I just
couldn't get used to, hence the remedial work.

I have a walk-in cupboard on the ground floor that is still flagged and
I don't notice any smell in there but then I never spend more than a few
moments in there at an one time. But one can become desensitised to some
smells. Whenever I return after a week or more away I notice the odour
from the wood treatment that was done more than 30 years ago but after a
very short while I no longer notice it.

In my case, the situation was more basic.

The house was originally designed with suspended wooden floors.

It sank gently.

One area was concreted and DPM'ed. Another was not.

Open fires existed in both areas.

Injection was carried out to all outer walls, but one spine wall was
done badly, and of course the back-to back chimneys were not done..

The fireplace sucked up water from under the house like anything.
There was poor drainage around the house - when I demolished it there
was a lake under the wooden floor.

I COULD keep things dry and must free by using the fires. The heat plus
updraught lowered the RH in a way that central heating did not.
Evaporation from the brickwork was enough to keep the woodwork dry and
the plaster un-efflorescing, but central heating was unable - without
opening windows and running it full blast - to keep up with ingress,
especially a few days after heavy rain.

My conclusion was that this house was designed for people who lived with
damp and, when it was especially cold and wet, lit fires.

Damp control is not an absolute issue. It is merely necessary to keep it
below fungal growth level.