When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?

In article ,
Mal writes:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?

You can use thinned matt emulsion for the first coat instead of
the special plaster sealing paints. Don't try doing it with other
types of top coat though, nor with PVA.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 26 Apr 2007 07:43:47 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Mal writes:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?

You can use thinned matt emulsion for the first coat instead of
the special plaster sealing paints. Don't try doing it with other
types of top coat though, nor with PVA.


Do you need to di this if it's been "drying" for a couple of months?

I tried a small area and it seemed ok with the paint straight, not
diluted.


Mark S.

In article ,
Mark S. writes:
On 26 Apr 2007 07:43:47 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
Mal writes:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?

You can use thinned matt emulsion for the first coat instead of
the special plaster sealing paints. Don't try doing it with other
types of top coat though, nor with PVA.


Do you need to di this if it's been "drying" for a couple of months?

I tried a small area and it seemed ok with the paint straight, not
diluted.

This is nothing to do with drying, it's to end up with the solid
matter penetrating the plaster surface so that it's well stuck.
Without taking measures to ensure this first coat penetrates into
the plaster surface, it won't stick very well. In bad cases, it
comes off when you apply the next coat, in less bad cases it's
simply prone to comming off with any sticky tape, bluetac, abrasion,
etc.

The thinning of it helps to ensure the emulsion is carried into
the plaster surface together with the moisture which the plaster
will draw in from the paint, so that when it dries it grips the
plaster well. Without doing this, the emulsion concentration is
high enough that it mainly just sits as a gel on the surface,
and when dried, it doesn't have such a good anchor to the surface.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Mal wrote:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local
DIYs. Any thoughts?

Get some of that magic paint they use on the TV make over shows - you can
paint over plaster 5 mins after it's applied :-)


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2007-04-26 09:10:22 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Mal wrote:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local
DIYs. Any thoughts?

Get some of that magic paint they use on the TV make over shows - you can
paint over plaster 5 mins after it's applied :-)

Look, you really must learn to separate your two careers.

Some poor child at his 5th birthday party expecting a lucky dip is not
really looking to have to reach inside your concrete mixer and fumble
in the ballast.

OTOH, those special saws that can cut through a pretty girl in 3
seconds flat should be good on the job site.

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-04-26 09:10:22 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

Mal wrote:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local
DIYs. Any thoughts?

Get some of that magic paint they use on the TV make over shows -
you can paint over plaster 5 mins after it's applied :-)

Look, you really must learn to separate your two careers.

Some poor child at his 5th birthday party expecting a lucky dip is not
really looking to have to reach inside your concrete mixer and fumble
in the ballast.

You are confusing me with a childrens entertainer - I'm a magician. I don't
do kid's parties.

OTOH, those special saws that can cut through a pretty girl in 3
seconds flat should be good on the job site.

There is a version that uses a jigsaw actually - alas not a Makita!


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 2007-04-26 19:24:35 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

You are confusing me with a childrens entertainer - I'm a magician. I don't
do kid's parties.


Ah I see. What is the typical audience?



OTOH, those special saws that can cut through a pretty girl in 3
seconds flat should be good on the job site.

There is a version that uses a jigsaw actually - alas not a Makita!

She must be very thin....

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-04-26 19:24:35 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

You are confusing me with a childrens entertainer - I'm a magician. I
don't do kid's parties.


Ah I see. What is the typical audience?

Varies a lot, but adults mainly, sometimes mixed with a few kids. For many
years I've worked in TGI Fridays - Haymarket, Bluewater, Croydon, Lakeside,
Basildon etc, also Frankie & Bennys, Exchange Diner. Family audiences.

There are kids in these restaurants, but strong close up magic defies age &
because they are a family group the kids feel 'part of the grown ups' so you
don't have any trouble.

Restaurant magic doesn't pay well by magicians standards, under £40 per
hour. It does give you the oppourtunity to learn your craft however - and
pick up more lucrative gigs.

Less regular but much more lucrative; weddings, round table dinners, golf
club dinners, private parties, showroom openings, corporate 'open days',
corporate staff parties, xmas do's etc. Last gig I did was the opening of a
new Triumph motorcycle showroom.


OTOH, those special saws that can cut through a pretty girl in 3
seconds flat should be good on the job site.

There is a version that uses a jigsaw actually - alas not a Makita!

She must be very thin....

It has a 12" long, very wide blade - very visual, but not really useable.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On 26 Apr, 02:00, Mal wrote:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?


I though a mix of 5 parts water to 1 part pva will seal and prime the
wall - not 100% sure though so google pva primer. If you dont seal/
prime it then the paint is absorbed at different rates and you end up
with a "patchy" wall

Hope this helps

In article .com,
Miles Reading writes:
On 26 Apr, 02:00, Mal wrote:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?

I though a mix of 5 parts water to 1 part pva will seal and prime the
wall - not 100% sure though so google pva primer. If you dont seal/
prime it then the paint is absorbed at different rates and you end up
with a "patchy" wall

This advice apparently came from one of those makeover programmes.
However, some types of paint will not stick to PVA, and as a
result of this advice becoming widespread and the ensuing disasters,
some paint manufactures have actually started putting warnings on
their tins against doing this.

You can buy plaster sealer/primer if you really want to. Most people
use diluted matt emulsion which they are likely to have around
anyway, and that works very well. The more polished the plaster
finish, the more you need to dilute it, but there is normally
guidance on the tin, typically 10% - 30% water added.

If you are having to paint plaster which has not thoroughly dried out,
then you are restricted to some special paints for this purpose (and
I think they're all matt emulsion finishes as they need to allow the
wall to breath through the paint). Where possible, allow the plaster
to dry out thoroughly first.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Miles Reading wrote:
On 26 Apr, 02:00, Mal wrote:
When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?


I though a mix of 5 parts water to 1 part pva will seal and prime the
wall - not 100% sure though so google pva primer. If you dont seal/
prime it then the paint is absorbed at different rates and you end up
with a "patchy" wall

Well I *am* 100% sure - don't do it!! If you use PVA you end up sealing
the surface and forming a relatively non-stick layer to which the paint
won't adhere, and it will peel off. (Been there, done that). Dilute
emulsion is the way to go.

David

Lobster wrote:

Well I *am* 100% sure - don't do it!! If you use PVA you end up sealing
the surface and forming a relatively non-stick layer to which the paint
won't adhere, and it will peel off. (Been there, done that). Dilute
emulsion is the way to go.

What's to do then, if you think that some 'helpful' person has done just
that?

The emulsion paint in my relatively new bathroom peels off the surface
with masking tape, Blu-Tack, wet towles, negative thoughts, etc. and I
suspect that it was sealed with PVA after plastering.

--
blj

Brian L Johnson wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Well I *am* 100% sure - don't do it!! If you use PVA you end up
sealing the surface and forming a relatively non-stick layer to which
the paint won't adhere, and it will peel off. (Been there, done
that). Dilute emulsion is the way to go.

What's to do then, if you think that some 'helpful' person has done just
that?

The emulsion paint in my relatively new bathroom peels off the surface
with masking tape, Blu-Tack, wet towles, negative thoughts, etc. and I
suspect that it was sealed with PVA after plastering.

--blj

I can't see why pva should cause peeling. The paint is probably pva
based anyway and two films of pva bind to each other pretty well, or how
could subsequent coats be appled? What I have experienced where the seal
was overdone is patchiness and roller marks, particularly with stronger
colours.
The only peeling problems I've had were with Dulux emulsion, which was
so thick you might might mistake it for filler. The new plaster sucked
out what little liquid it contained, leaving a chalky deposit hanging on
the ceiling. Used another brand and it was fine. In the case of white,
I'd rather get a tub of own brand cheap which doesn't need thinning

On 26 Apr, 02:00, Mal wrote:

When painting new, finished plaster is it necessary to apply
undercoat/sealer or can I just slightly thin the first of the two
planned top coats? Opinion seems divided when I've asked in local DIYs.
Any thoughts?

New plaster takes a fair while to fully dry out, so you dont want to
seal it.

New plaster needs porous paint, not emulsion. No diffferent undercoat
is used, either the first coat is diluted 50/50 with water or you cna
put on a coat of water then fullmstrength paint.

All is explained he
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Paint


NT

Many thanks to you all. Think I'll look at water only or 50-50 when I
get to it. It's a new build and plaster will have been up 3 or 4 months
by the time I start work.

Thanks again - great group

On 27 Apr, 02:27, Mal wrote:
Many thanks to you all. Think I'll look at water only or 50-50 when I
get to it. It's a new build and plaster will have been up 3 or 4 months
by the time I start work.

Thanks again - great group

after that time emulsion's ok

NT