I have a one-bedroom flat in which I want to install a £1 coin meter
for the elctric supply. Can these typical £1-coin meters safely take
the load of an electric shower plus an electric cooker (plus the usual
lighting and ring main)?

Thank you.

Frank

I have a one-bedroom flat in which I want to install a £1 coin meter
for the elctric supply. Can these typical £1-coin meters safely take
the load of an electric shower plus an electric cooker (plus the usual
lighting and ring main)?

They should usually state the load rating near the serial number of
the meter.

Alternatively, does it have a "red spot" on there somewhere ? (often
around the glass) - IIRC that means they were uprated from 30A or 40A
to 60A (might even have been 80A) back in the 80's.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:48:17 +0100, Colin Wilson
o.uk wrote:

for the elctric supply. Can these typical £1-coin meters safely take
the load of an electric shower plus an electric cooker (plus the usual
lighting and ring main)?

They should usually state the load rating near the serial number of
the meter.

Alternatively, does it have a "red spot" on there somewhere ? (often
around the glass) - IIRC that means they were uprated from 30A or 40A
to 60A (might even have been 80A) back in the 80's.

Thanks. It has no red spot but appears to be 60 amps, if the sticker
on the coin drawer is to be believed. Is 60 amps sufficient for a
small belling cooker and an electric shower, plus a ring main and
lighting? The flat has central heating so I guess the tenant won't be
using electric fires, etc. It is a one-bed flat.

Perhaps I should install a master fuse between the coin meter and the
flat's fuse box?

Thanks again,

Frank

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:28:05 +0100, Frank wrote:

It is a one-bed flat.

PS.. The cable supplying the flat is that standard, flat, white
twin-core and earth cable and is 15mm wide, overall. It has insulated
red and black cores (each coe is 6mm thick *including its insulation*.
Is that adequate for supplying the flat, including the said cooker and
shower?

Thanks,

Frank

PS.. The cable supplying the flat is that standard, flat, white
twin-core and earth cable and is 15mm wide, overall. It has insulated
red and black cores (each coe is 6mm thick *including its insulation*.
Is that adequate for supplying the flat, including the said cooker and
shower?

This sounds iffy all-round to me - who owns the property ?

I think this should be looked at by an electrician tbh - sub-mains
should really be in steel wire armoured afaik, and there should be a
switched fused isolator next to the main incomer to the property for
each flat prior to the run of the sub-main to each.

It sounds like these "flats" have been done on the cheap, and I
suspect there are likely to be problems elsewhere, such as the size of
the incoming cable to the property as a whole, before it gets split to
however many "flats" they thought they could get out of it.

It may be a *fire hazard* if you try sticking anything substantial on
the current "installation", which I don't think would actually pass
the wiring regs as they stand.

I've been out of the "hands on" game for about 15 years now, so others
will be better able to advise.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:45:02 +0100, Colin Wilson
o.uk wrote:

PS.. The cable supplying the flat is that standard, flat, white
twin-core and earth cable and is 15mm wide, overall. It has insulated
red and black cores (each coe is 6mm thick *including its insulation*.
Is that adequate for supplying the flat, including the said cooker and
shower?

This sounds iffy all-round to me - who owns the property ?

I own the property.

I think this should be looked at by an electrician tbh - sub-mains
should really be in steel wire armoured afaik, and there should be a
switched fused isolator next to the main incomer to the property for
each flat prior to the run of the sub-main to each.

It sounds like these "flats" have been done on the cheap, and I
suspect there are likely to be problems elsewhere, such as the size of
the incoming cable to the property as a whole, before it gets split to
however many "flats" they thought they could get out of it.

It is a house that was converted to just two one-bed flats, so I guess
the existing incoming cable should suffice. Later, I intend to get a
second mains supply, but in the meantime, I just want to run both
flats from the single mains supply.

It may be a *fire hazard* if you try sticking anything substantial on
the current "installation", which I don't think would actually pass

Thanks for the comment. I do want the wiring to pass a surveyor's
report, when I come to sell one fo the flats shortly. Perhaps I should
get an an 'electrician tbh' as you suggest. What does the 'tbh' stand
for? Any tips on choosing a reasonably-priced but effective one? My
budget is extremely tight, but if it's the best thing to do, I'll do
it.

Frank

What does the 'tbh' stand for?

"to be honest"

Any tips on choosing a reasonably-priced but effective one? My
budget is extremely tight, but if it's the best thing to do, I'll do
it.

None at all i'm afraid, but your first question to them should be "are
you Part P qualified"

I'm guessing most that you find in the local paper won't be - and it's
now a legal requirement.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:45:02 +0100, Colin Wilson
o.uk mused:

I think this should be looked at by an electrician tbh - sub-mains
should really be in steel wire armoured afaik,

No need for SWA foir submains, just suitably sized cables.

and there should be a
switched fused isolator next to the main incomer to the property for
each flat prior to the run of the sub-main to each.

Correct.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:57:51 +0100, Frank mused:


It is a house that was converted to just two one-bed flats, so I guess
the existing incoming cable should suffice. Later, I intend to get a
second mains supply, but in the meantime, I just want to run both
flats from the single mains supply.

I wouldn't neccesarily change it to seperate supplies just for the
sake of it. Best bet is get some advice from an electrician as to what
the best solution would be and what the current supply can handle
..
It may be a *fire hazard* if you try sticking anything substantial on
the current "installation", which I don't think would actually pass

Thanks for the comment. I do want the wiring to pass a surveyor's
report, when I come to sell one fo the flats shortly. Perhaps I should
get an an 'electrician tbh' as you suggest. What does the 'tbh' stand
for? Any tips on choosing a reasonably-priced but effective one? My
budget is extremely tight, but if it's the best thing to do, I'll do
it.

If you're renting you should really have had some sort of test
performed at some point. Regardless of budget, it's a responsibility
of yours.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 15:22:43 +0100, Lurch
wrote:

Thanks for your comments

If you're renting you should really have had some sort of test
performed at some point. Regardless of budget, it's a responsibility
of yours.

Sounds like a good idea, for several reasons. Is there any specific
test I should ask for, or just ask them to test the electric cirquits?
It would be great to have a certificate of some kind to show that the
cirquits had been tested to some standard or other.

Frank
..

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 15:03:44 +0100, Owain
wrote:

Frank wrote:
Thanks for the comment. I do want the wiring to pass a surveyor's
report, when I come to sell one fo the flats shortly.

You do have planning permission and building regulations approval for
this conversion don't you, including now Part P certification for the
electrics?

Teh conversion was done a long time ago. I think there is a
certificate of lawfulness somewhere.

You have separated the two flats' electrical installations completely,
supplied main and equipotential bonding to both flats, and arranged
separate incomers and metering with the supply company?

No - I may want do that in the future, but would prefer to avoid the
expense for now.

You are aware that supply companies will *not* accept submains to one
flat being run through another flat? They also usually require meters in
externally-accessible meter cupboards.

I wasn't aware of that, but thanks for the comment. If I ever decide
on a second supply co meter, I'll have to go along with whatever
policies they have in that respect.

You have arranged for isolation and earthing of communal TV aerials,
satellite dishes and the like?

No, because there aren't any.

You have had the propert separated into two separate dwellings with the
Land Registry, and arranged the appropriate covenants and wayleaves in
the new deeds regarding communal areas, access, services, repairs etc?

No, not yet. I will do when the time comes.

Perhaps I should
get an an 'electrician tbh' as you suggest. What does the 'tbh' stand
for?

"to be honest"

Any tips on choosing a reasonably-priced but effective one? My
budget is extremely tight, but if it's the best thing to do, I'll do
it.

If your budget is tight it is extremely unwise to cut corners that lead
to difficulty in selling, a lower sale price, and loss of profit. Some
things have to be spent on to do the job right.

Makes sense - thanks for the comment. I just hope the elecrician I
choose does the job right.

Frank.

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 23:20:57 +0100, Frank mused:

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 15:22:43 +0100, Lurch
wrote:

Thanks for your comments

If you're renting you should really have had some sort of test
performed at some point. Regardless of budget, it's a responsibility
of yours.

Sounds like a good idea, for several reasons. Is there any specific
test I should ask for, or just ask them to test the electric cirquits?
It would be great to have a certificate of some kind to show that the
cirquits had been tested to some standard or other.

Periodic test report. If you get hold of your preferred electrical
contractor telling you just want an electrical certificate for some
rented property you have should suffice.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:56:56 +0100, Owain
wrote:

I have a one-bedroom flat in which I want to install a £1 coin meter
for the elctric supply.

Why? Apart from looking *incredibly* cheap-and-nasty to prospective
tenants, they can be a right management pain in that you have to keep
emptying them (and account for the income),

I've never thought of them that way, and have never found them a
management pain. But I don't have many flats to manage (usually one
only). I've found that they only need emptying about once a year. I
would have thought that *not* having a coin meter (and letting the
tenant get billed directly from the supply co) would be much more of a
management pain - like if they run off owing the supply co money,
followed by supply co refusing to supply. You don't think so?

and tenants can break them
open so easily.

Never had that happen yet, in 15 years, but I do pick my tenants
carefully.

Also bear in mind that you as a landlord have a duty of care for your
tenant's safety, and putting lighting on a coin meter, so that the
lights cut out unexpectedly leading to accidents, could give rise to
liability.

Thanks - that's a good point that I had never thought of before. But
actually, the one flat that will have the coin meter will be the one
that I will be occupying, so it's not really an issue, as I see it.

Frank

like if they run off owing the supply co money, followed by supply
co refusing to supply. You don't think so?

Nope. If the tenant is the holder is registered with them for the
usage at that address, it's the tenant alone who is responsible.

If they move without paying, it actually puts *you* in a better
position, in that if they took all their £1 coins from a coin meter
with them, you would still have to pay the bill (as it's your name on
the account)

If they flit without paying their bill with the electric co. you can
simply give them any forwarding address you may have and let them
worry about retrieving the costs.