Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all the
pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that the
cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were different
standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What specifications
should I be looking for?

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications
should I be looking for?

I should be looking for a post from w_tom any minute now...

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 17:42:20 UTC, "Graham" wrote:


So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications
should I be looking for?

I should be looking for a post from w_tom any minute now...

You just beat me to it....await several hundred lines from him...!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 08/04/2007 18:13, DD wrote:

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that the
cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were different
standards of surge protection.

They may be cheap and crap, but regardless it might have come with an
£x,000 equipment guarantee ...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
On 08/04/2007 18:13, DD wrote:

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

They may be cheap and crap, but regardless it might have come with an
£x,000 equipment guarantee ...


They are Masterplug and only seem to come with a 3 year guarantee. They are
at least 7 years old (one is dated 1999) and we have looked and can't find
any receipts or the package inserts we thought we kept.

In message , DD
writes
we have looked and can't find any receipts or the package inserts we
thought we kept.

Which is of course how their insurance works.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

On Apr 8, 3:14 pm, "DD" someone@somewhere wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.
...

They are Masterplug and only seem to come with a 3 year guarantee. They are
at least 7 years old (one is dated 1999) and we have looked and can't find
any receipts or the package inserts we thought we kept.

Its so called warranty is full of exceptions. That warranty is just
not honored as others before have learned. A big quid equipment
guarantees is essentially useless. Meanwhile real world protectors
mean no damage.

Multiple type of surges exist. Type that typically damages seeks
earth ground. Another will post a citation where page 42 Figure 8
shows a plug-in protector earthing a surge, 8000 volts destructively,
through the TV. That surge protector had no dedicated earthing wire
for the 'less than 3 meter' earthing connection. That earthing wire
is the difference between ineffective plug-in protectors and effective
solutions.

How to identify the ineffective protector? 1) No dedicated earthing
wire and 2) manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. Simple
rule. Notice your protectors and therefore resulting damage violated
both points.

Protectors are not protection. Protectors are simply a connecting
device between each utility wire and earth ground. No three meter
earthing wire? Then a surge protector must earth that surge maybe via
TV or computer.

Every wire incoming to the home is the equivalent of an antenna to
each appliance. Lightning seeks earth ground via antenna wires; as
via any other incoming utility wire. Effective protection must be
applied to every incoming utility wire. Earthing 'system' must be the
best earthing - often enhanced beyond what electrical codes demand.
Earthing - not the protector - defines protection.

An application noted demonstrates the principles:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf
Even buried wires must connect to that earthing electrode before
entering a structure.

Cable TV and dish satellite wires need no protector; connect 'less
than 3 meters' to that earthing electrode via a hardwire. AC electric
and telephone wires make that connection via a 'whole house'
protector. Some examples:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse06.htm
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/pdf/ma...lies/m2_m4.pdf
http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm
http://www.citelprotection.com/engli..._B380_B480.PDF
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm

An industry professional demonstrates the principle and its
effectiveness:
http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html
Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years,
that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a
routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard,
nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct
lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime
from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from
a strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking
*them* out, ...
The belief that there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ...
The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and
surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point
ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a
low *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low
*inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path.

How a surge protector connects a surge to earth defines an effective
or ineffective 'system'. No 'magic box' will stop or absorb what 4
kilometers of sky could not - as plug-in protectors claim.
Demonstrated by example: a plug-in protector without THE most critical
'system' component (single point earth ground) and damage resulted.
How do you know it will not be effective? No 'less than 3 meter'
earthing connection. No earth ground means no effective protection.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:25:01 UTC, "w_tom" wrote:

(usual rant)

See, we said he wouldn't be long. Ignore as usual....

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Apr 9, 10:12 am, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:25:01 UTC, "w_tom" wrote:

(usual rant)

See, we said he wouldn't be long. Ignore as usual....


Its amazing. You and Graham are psychics.

For good information on surges and surge protection try
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Li...ion_May051.pdf
- the title is "How to protect your house and its contents from
lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to
AC power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005
(the IEEE is the dominant organization of electrical and electronic
engineers in the US).

also:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf
- this is the "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to
protect the appliances in your home" published by the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (the US government agency
formerly called the National Bureau of Standards) in 2001

The NIST guide is very readable. IEEE guide requires some (not much)
technical background. Surge information is completely generic.
Protection information is based on US, but differences to UK for
surges are pretty minor, primarily earthing.

Both guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.

Suppressor ratings range from junk to very high. At high ratings a
manufacturer can warrantee both the suppressor and connected
equipment.

Note that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the
same plug-in suppressor. External wires like phone, cable TV, ... also
need to go thorough the suppressor. The voltage on ALL wires (power
and signal) to protected equipment needs to be clamped to the common
ground at the suppressor. This is described in both guides.

--
bud--

On 9 Apr, 16:12, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 14:25:01 UTC, "w_tom" wrote:

(usual rant)

Ignore as usual....

Why? What's the problem with his post(s)?

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 18:13:00 +0100, "DD" someone@somewhere mused:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all the
pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that the
cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were different
standards of surge protection.

Yep, I got a load of cheap ones in a box full of miscellaneous cheap
crap I got cheap from somewhere years ago. They're still sat in the
box.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What specifications
should I be looking for?

How many sources are you looking to protect? The best solution is to
use a UPS, small ones around 350VA can be had for around 35-40GBP and
will mostly come with a connected equipment guarantee.

I have a 2KVA UPS protecting my PC, slightly OTT but it was sat doing
nothing at the time.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 8 Apr, 18:13, "DD" someone@somewhere wrote:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all the
pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that the
cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were different
standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What specifications
should I be looking for?

The short answer is theyre a complete waste of time & money. You can
read up on it yourself if you wish, or not.


NT

"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?

Get a Belkin one.

Sylvain.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:56:17 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:


"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?

Get a Belkin one.

I think he wanted a good one.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:56:17 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:


"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few
electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for
all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover
that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?

Get a Belkin one.

I think he wanted a good one.

Exactly. Belkin don't do cheap stuff, and have a good reputation. You must
be thinking of some other brand.

Sylvain.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:22:15 GMT, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
mused:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:56:17 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:


"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few
electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for
all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover
that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?

Get a Belkin one.

I think he wanted a good one.

Exactly. Belkin don't do cheap stuff, and have a good reputation. You must
be thinking of some other brand.

Nope, Belkin are definitely crap.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:22:15 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:56:17 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:


"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few
electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for
all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover
that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?

Get a Belkin one.

I think he wanted a good one.

Exactly. Belkin don't do cheap stuff, and have a good reputation. You must
be thinking of some other brand.

Of course...the one I'm thinking of is spelled B-E-L-K-I-N ...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Sylvain VAN DER WALDE wrote:


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 19:56:17 UTC, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:

snip..

Get a Belkin one.

I think he wanted a good one.

Exactly. Belkin don't do cheap stuff, and have a good reputation. You must
be thinking of some other brand.

*Ack* Good reputation my arse.

This is the Same Belkin that sold a router that redirected a small
percentage of HTTP requests to an ad site:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11...belkin_router/

Maybe their cables are OK, but as a company I don't buy anything from them
anymore on principle.

Tim

On Apr 10, 7:22 am, "Sylvain VAN DER WALDE"
wrote:
I think he wanted a good one.

Exactly. Belkin don't do cheap stuff, and have a good reputation. You must
be thinking of some other brand.

Take a three quid power strip. Add some 10 pence parts. Sell it
for tens of pounds. Some call that quality because it costs more?
When did a higher price prove quality? Why is that Belkin with same
circuit superior to one sold in a grocery store? Hype and myth. Each
has the same circuit - MOVs strapped between wires. Only one is
blessed with holy water before leaving the factory.

How do we make lightning rods better? The naive will sharpen those
rods. The informed will improved earthing. Why? A lightning rod -
just like a surge protector - is only as effective as its earth
ground. Some will promote 'higher quality lightning rods' using myths
that also promote 'age defying creams' and 'quality surge protectors'.

Belkin is hype. If it was so good, then the Belkin would list each
type of transient AND provided numbers for protection from each type
of transient. Where are those numbers posted here? Where is the
quality? Belkin's own specifications do not provide numbers for
protection from the typically destructive types of surges. Go ahead.
Post those numbers that prove 'quality'?

No earth ground means no effective protection. Belkin avoids
earthing discussions hoping that junk science here - without facts or
numbers - will promote it. If the Belkin is so good, then where are
manufacturer specification numbers? Number not provided because
manufacturer does not even claim such protection.

Add some ten pence parts to a power strip, slap on a big name, and
suddenly it is superior to power strips with the same circuit?
Nonsense. Sell it for more quid and the naive will declare it
'quality'. No spec numbers; just miraculous knowledge that a 'magic
box' must be better quality. Belkin is recommended using the same
logic that recommends 'age defying creams'.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:00:48 UTC, "w_tom" wrote:

box' must be better quality. Belkin is recommended using the same
logic that recommends 'age defying creams'.

While I agree about Belikn (as already stated), you have once again
chosen a bad example:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consume...cle_id=418955&
in_page_id=5

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?


Thanks for all the replies. Am cogitating and digesting the various
suggestions and comments.

I checked the earth wire and found it had unwound itself from the mains
downpipe...Uhhhh!

"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...

"DD" someone@somewhere wrote in message
...
Not sure if this is the right place to ask and I know a few electricians
frequent this site so....

We did the right thing some time ago and bought surge protectors for all
the pc and entertainment equipment, or so we thought .........

A power surge last week and one fried tv later, and we now discover that
the cheap ones are hardly worth having! Did not realise there were
different standards of surge protection.

So can anyone recommend a good surge protector please? What
specifications should I be looking for?


Thanks for all the replies. Am cogitating and digesting the various
suggestions and comments.

I checked the earth wire and found it had unwound itself from the mains
downpipe...Uhhhh!
We use things like this at work after repeatedly having our ADSL modems
fried via both phone and mains lightening induced surges.
http://tinyurl.com/2l7l4t

Since fitting not had a dead modem. Fitted on a large board with phone and
ethernet filters (+large earth lead) so as to keep the unprotected wiring as
far as possible from the protected wiring (2 foot I seem to remember being
the key distance).

On Apr 10, 2:44 pm, "DD" someone@somewhere wrote:
I checked the earth wire and found it had unwound itself from the mains
downpipe...Uhhhh!

Earthing wire must not be wrapped around anything. That wrapping is
bad for same reasons why sharp wire bends compromises protection.
Essential that an earthing wire from every protector be short ('less
than 10 feet'), direct, separated from other non-earthing wires, no
splices, etc. Each earthing connection should be separate until all
meet at the single point earth ground at the service entrance. A
water pipe ground is typically too far away; therefore insufficient.
A short and direct connection to one dedicated earthing electrode or a
common connection to an earthing 'system' defines protection.

BTW, above discussions were only about secondary protection. That
secondary protection 'system' is defined by its central and essential
component - the earthing electrode. Your primary protection system is
also defined by the one component that defines that 'system' and also
should be inspected:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

On 11 Apr, 13:56, "w_tom" wrote:
On Apr 10, 2:44 pm,

Earthing wire must not be wrapped around anything. That wrapping is
bad for same reasons why sharp wire bends compromises protection.
Essential that an earthing wire from every protector be short ('less
than 10 feet'), direct, separated from other non-earthing wires, no
splices, etc. Each earthing connection should be separate until all
meet at the single point earth ground at the service entrance.

I gather America has a much bigger problem with lightning induced
surges than over here.


NT

In message om,
writes
I gather America has a much bigger problem with lightning induced
surges than over here.

Much more overhead wiring outdoors.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com