Hi,

I need some advise on how I can run electrical wires within a shower
enclosure. Currently I have a shower and toilet on the ground floor
of my house. There is a mascarator for the toilet which has its
electrical supply wiring running along the surface of the wall in a
protective conduit. There is also a high rated juntion box to make
the connection to the wire for the macerator.

I've had conflicting recommendations from two NICEIC electricians /
testers. One has said that the wiring has to be sunk into the wall
and tilled over. The other electrician has said that there is no
problem with the wiring being surface mounted, but it must be encased
in a high impact waterproof truncking.

Does anyone know what the definitive regulations are relating this
please - quoting the reg this concerns would also be a great help as I
can then quote it.

Many thanks

D.

On 19 Mar 2007 03:28:18 -0700 someone who may be "DB"
wrote this:-

I need some advise on how I can run electrical wires within a shower
enclosure.

Simple. Unless they are feeding equipment within the enclosure it is
not allowed to run cables in the enclosure.

If you mean the room the shower is in, then it depends which zone
the cable is to be run in and what it is feeding.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 19 Mar, 11:38, David Hansen
wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 03:28:18 -0700 someone who may be "DB"
wrote this:-

I need some advise on how I can run electrical wires within a shower
enclosure.

Simple. Unless they are feeding equipment within the enclosure it is
not allowed to run cables in the enclosure.

If you mean the room the shower is in, then it depends which zone
the cable is to be run in and what it is feeding.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Hi David, many thanks for your comment.

The shower does't have have any panels. It has a shower curtain which
actually encloses the toilet as well. The whole thing was put in by
concil contractors a couple of years ago (before I bought the place).
The wiring at the moment is within the shower curtain (as is the
toilet).

So as you've put it, does the curtain mean that the toilet's macerator
is within the enclosure? If this is the case and therefore the wiring
is feeding equipment (macerator) within the shower enclosure I take it
that surface wiring is acceptable.

Is there a specifc reg (Wiring regs) that that your response refere's
to David? If it's acceptable (from what we've said), does the wiring
need to be encased in waterproof conduit or anything else for that
matter? Are the regs specific on this and if so which ones?

Many thanks

D.

On 19 Mar 2007 04:56:24 -0700 someone who may be "DB"
wrote this:-

The shower does't have have any panels. It has a shower curtain which
actually encloses the toilet as well.

You mean that the whole floor is used as the shower tray and the
toilet sits on this? Not good for toilet paper.

So as you've put it, does the curtain mean that the toilet's macerator
is within the enclosure? If this is the case and therefore the wiring
is feeding equipment (macerator) within the shower enclosure I take it
that surface wiring is acceptable.

The regulations are based on the area of the shower tray or bath. If
there is no shower tray then they are based on a distance from the
fixed outlet of the shower.

Is there a specifc reg (Wiring regs) that that your response refere's
to David?

The Wiring Regulations, in particular the amendment of 2000 or 2001
in relation to rooms containing a bath or shower.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 19 Mar, 12:29, David Hansen
wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 04:56:24 -0700 someone who may be "DB"
wrote this:-

The shower does't have have any panels. It has a shower curtain which
actually encloses the toilet as well.

You mean that the whole floor is used as the shower tray and the
toilet sits on this? Not good for toilet paper.

So as you've put it, does the curtain mean that the toilet's macerator
is within the enclosure? If this is the case and therefore the wiring
is feeding equipment (macerator) within the shower enclosure I take it
that surface wiring is acceptable.

The regulations are based on the area of the shower tray or bath. If
there is no shower tray then they are based on a distance from the
fixed outlet of the shower.

Is there a specifc reg (Wiring regs) that that your response refere's
to David?

The Wiring Regulations, in particular the amendment of 2000 or 2001
in relation to rooms containing a bath or shower.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Hi David, the whole floor is a wet floor with an eletrical drainage
pump. do you know what the distance away from the shower the toilet
has to be to qualify as an electrical device within the shower
enclosure?

These rules leave a lot of grey area to sort out as I'm still none the
wiser if I can have surface mounted cables for the macerator in the
shower area. Any definitive help is much appreciated. (Especially
if you can quote the actual reg). It's difficult being a layman or
homeowener in this situation as different NICEIC qualified electricans
have come up with opposing suggestions - so a defacto standard written
reg would be the best way to resolve this cunundrum I feel. What do
you think?

btw - forgot to mention - the toilet roll holder is on the outside of
the shower curtain - maintaing the guarantee of a wet free wipe.

On 19 Mar, 12:29, David Hansen
wrote:
On 19 Mar 2007 04:56:24 -0700 someone who may be "DB"
wrote this:-

The shower does't have have any panels. It has a shower curtain which
actually encloses the toilet as well.

You mean that the whole floor is used as the shower tray and the
toilet sits on this? Not good for toilet paper.

So as you've put it, does the curtain mean that the toilet's macerator
is within the enclosure? If this is the case and therefore the wiring
is feeding equipment (macerator) within the shower enclosure I take it
that surface wiring is acceptable.

The regulations are based on the area of the shower tray or bath. If
there is no shower tray then they are based on a distance from the
fixed outlet of the shower.

Is there a specifc reg (Wiring regs) that that your response refere's
to David?

The Wiring Regulations, in particular the amendment of 2000 or 2001
in relation to rooms containing a bath or shower.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 19 Mar 2007 07:43:10 -0700, "DB"
mused:

These rules leave a lot of grey area to sort out as I'm still none the
wiser if I can have surface mounted cables for the macerator in the
shower area. Any definitive help is much appreciated. (Especially
if you can quote the actual reg). It's difficult being a layman or
homeowener in this situation as different NICEIC qualified electricans
have come up with opposing suggestions - so a defacto standard written
reg would be the best way to resolve this cunundrum I feel. What do
you think?

Heh, defacto and BS7671 don't go together. The regs are as vague as
possible for some reason.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 19 Mar 2007 07:43:10 -0700 someone who may be "DB"
wrote this:-

the whole floor is a wet floor with an eletrical drainage
pump. do you know what the distance away from the shower the toilet
has to be to qualify as an electrical device within the shower
enclosure?

0.6m from a fixed shower rose, or 1.2m from a fixed water outlet on
the wall if the shower has a flexible hose.

These rules leave a lot of grey area to sort out as I'm still none the
wiser if I can have surface mounted cables for the macerator in the
shower area. Any definitive help is much appreciated.

Take yourself to the nearest reference library. Ask to see a copy of
BS7671. Ensure the copy is new enough to cover Amendment No 3 of
2000.

Alternatively purchase/borrow one of the excellent guides on the
subject.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

DB wrote:

These rules leave a lot of grey area to sort out as I'm still none the
wiser if I can have surface mounted cables for the macerator in the
shower area. Any definitive help is much appreciated.

See if this helps:

http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/NL139supp.pdf


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:04:05 +0000 someone who may be Lurch
wrote this:-

Heh, defacto and BS7671 don't go together. The regs are as vague as
possible for some reason.

No doubt that is the way the international committee wants the
wording. It goes well with the less than useful arrangement of
sections.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message , David Hansen
writes
You mean that the whole floor is used as the shower tray and the toilet
sits on this? Not good for toilet paper.

Who needs toilet paper when you have fluffy cotton shower towels.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

DB wrote:

These rules leave a lot of grey area to sort out as I'm still none the
wiser if I can have surface mounted cables for the macerator in the
shower area. Any definitive help is much appreciated. (Especially
if you can quote the actual reg). It's difficult being a layman or
homeowener in this situation as different NICEIC qualified electricans
have come up with opposing suggestions - so a defacto standard written
reg would be the best way to resolve this cunundrum I feel. What do
you think?

There shouldn't be any grey areas here since the regs are pretty clear.
If we're talking about ordinary twin-and-earth cabling then no
distinction is made between surface and embedded (buried) wiring in the
ordinary sense. The rules here are in Regs. 601-07-01 and 601-07-02 and
amount to a statement that such cabling cannot be used to supply
equipment in a higher numbered zone.

The special circumstances in which this can be ignored are when embedded
cabling complies with Reg. 522-06-06 (i), (ii) or (iii) - i.e. the cable
is a type which has an earthed metal covering (armour or screen, etc.)
and complies with certain standards, or is of concentric construction,
or is enclosed in earthed conduit etc., or is protected sufficiently to
prevent penetration by nails or screws, or is buried more than 50 mm
deep in the wall.

To assess your situation more fully we need to know the following:

- how far (horizontally on a plan view) is the macerator and its means
of connection from the shower outlet?

- is the shower outlet fixed or demountable/movable?

- what is the IP rating of the macerator unit?

- how is it connected to the supply? - you mentioned a "junction box"
but I would expect to see a fused connection unit or flex outlet plate
of some kind; if there are any controls (isolator switch, etc., where do
those fit in on the plan?

--
Andy