Just a quick question, hope somebody can help. I know gas pipe
installations with pipes through walls have to be sleeved, but I am
unsure about the following:

1. Do existing installations that are not sleeved now have to be
re-sleeved to comply? Most of the gas pipes in the house were
installed 30+ years ago.

2. Does the sleeving apply to non-cavity walls?

3. What should the sleeve be sealed to the pipe with, and also what
should you seal the sleeve into the wall with?

TIA.

Alex

Alex wrote:
Just a quick question, hope somebody can help. I know gas pipe
installations with pipes through walls have to be sleeved, but I am
unsure about the following:

1. Do existing installations that are not sleeved now have to be
re-sleeved to comply? Most of the gas pipes in the house were
installed 30+ years ago.

2. Does the sleeving apply to non-cavity walls?

3. What should the sleeve be sealed to the pipe with, and also what
should you seal the sleeve into the wall with?

TIA.

Alex

The overall effect is to prevent the copper of the pipe, and this applies to
water pipes too, from coming into contact with mortar or plaster.....there
are several ways of doing this, but with existing pipes through walls, the
easiest way has to be expanding foam - this creates a barrier and prevents
the alkalis attacking the copper, with new installations, any plastic
tubing, denzo tape(the greasy stuff), PVC tape, then point over, plaster as
normal etc.

I doubt if anyone is interested in your pipes and whether they are up to
regulations etc, but I have seen copper pipes almost corroded through within
10 years in areas of constant damp where the alkalis are leeching out of the
plaster/mortar....in very dry conditions it's a rarity to see any corrrosion
at all.

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:35:20 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Alex wrote:
Just a quick question, hope somebody can help. I know gas pipe
installations with pipes through walls have to be sleeved, but I am
unsure about the following:

1. Do existing installations that are not sleeved now have to be
re-sleeved to comply? Most of the gas pipes in the house were
installed 30+ years ago.

2. Does the sleeving apply to non-cavity walls?

3. What should the sleeve be sealed to the pipe with, and also what
should you seal the sleeve into the wall with?

TIA.

Alex

The overall effect is to prevent the copper of the pipe, and this applies to
water pipes too, from coming into contact with mortar or plaster.....there
are several ways of doing this, but with existing pipes through walls, the
easiest way has to be expanding foam - this creates a barrier and prevents
the alkalis attacking the copper, with new installations, any plastic
tubing, denzo tape(the greasy stuff), PVC tape, then point over, plaster as
normal etc.

I doubt if anyone is interested in your pipes and whether they are up to
regulations etc, but I have seen copper pipes almost corroded through within
10 years in areas of constant damp where the alkalis are leeching out of the
plaster/mortar....in very dry conditions it's a rarity to see any corrrosion
at all.

There is a probability in the future that I would be renting the
property, in which case as Landlord I would require a gas safety
certificate. I don't want to do work now for myself that will require
re-doing in order to obtain the certificate. As for existing pipework
being sleeved, if it will require it to be certified, then it makes
sense to remove it and re-do now rather than later.

Alex

Alex wrote:

Just a quick question, hope somebody can help. I know gas pipe
installations with pipes through walls have to be sleeved, but I am
unsure about the following:

1. Do existing installations that are not sleeved now have to be
re-sleeved to comply? Most of the gas pipes in the house were
installed 30+ years ago.

IIUC, only when installing or altering the pipework.

2. Does the sleeving apply to non-cavity walls?

Yes. See BS 6891:

"8.9.5 Solid walls
Every pipe passing through a solid wall shall be sleeved."

3. What should the sleeve be sealed to the pipe with, and also what
should you seal the sleeve into the wall with?

The purpose of the sleeve is to contain any escape of gas such that it
is vented outside the building (preventing corrosion of the pipe is a
welcome fringe benefit, but not the primary motivation).

Section 8.10 of the above BS describes it:

"8.10 Sleeves
8.10.1 Sleeves shall be of a material capable of containing gas, e.g.
copper, steel, polyethylene or polyvinyl chloride (PVC).
8.10.2 Sleeves shall pass through the full width of the wall or the full
thickness of the floor. Sleeves shall not impair the fire resistance of
a building. The annular space between the pipe and the sleeve shall be
sealed at one end to the pipe with a flexible fire resistant compound.
Where a sleeve passes through an exterior wall, the seal shall be on the
inside of the wall.

COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 8.10.2
The internal diameter of any sleeve should allow for an annular space
around the pipe to enable satisfactory insertion of the pipe into it and
be of sufficient diameter to allow adequate sealing between the pipe and
the sleeve.
Additional information on the installation of polyethylene pipe can be
found in the Institute of Gas
Engineers and Managers publication IGE/TD/4 [6], Gas Services.
8.10.3 Screwed, push-fit and compression joints shall not be located
within a sleeve.
8.10.4 The outside of the sleeve shall be secured and sealed at each end
to the structure of the building with
a suitable building material, e.g. cement mortar."

I am not sure what the most favoured "flexible fire resistant compound"
is however...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2007-02-23, John Rumm wrote:

The purpose of the sleeve is to contain any escape of gas such that it
is vented outside the building (preventing corrosion of the pipe is a
welcome fringe benefit, but not the primary motivation).

Pity whoever installed the bottled gas system in my house didn't read
this... The bottles are outside and the 15mm copper pipe just comes
straight through the wall. No sleeving.

Just walk down any road of houses, and you'll see a number of
tell-tale signs of sealed system boilers, i.e. a flue terminal,
pressure relief pipe, and gas pipe all going through the wall
within a few feet of each other. It's remarkably rare to see
the gas pipe is actually sleaved, yet these will nearly all
have been installed by CORGIs. I often wonder why this particular
regulation is so universally ignored by the profession.

Needless to say, if you look at my own DIY installation, they're
all sleaved (even the water pipes, so as they exand and contract,
they don't eventually rub a hole through the pipe), although I
must admit I didn't bother with the PRV outlet.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 01:54:27 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Alex wrote:

Just a quick question, hope somebody can help. I know gas pipe
installations with pipes through walls have to be sleeved, but I am
unsure about the following:

1. Do existing installations that are not sleeved now have to be
re-sleeved to comply? Most of the gas pipes in the house were
installed 30+ years ago.

IIUC, only when installing or altering the pipework.

2. Does the sleeving apply to non-cavity walls?

Yes. See BS 6891:

"8.9.5 Solid walls
Every pipe passing through a solid wall shall be sleeved."

3. What should the sleeve be sealed to the pipe with, and also what
should you seal the sleeve into the wall with?

The purpose of the sleeve is to contain any escape of gas such that it
is vented outside the building (preventing corrosion of the pipe is a
welcome fringe benefit, but not the primary motivation).

Section 8.10 of the above BS describes it:

"8.10 Sleeves
8.10.1 Sleeves shall be of a material capable of containing gas, e.g.
copper, steel, polyethylene or polyvinyl chloride (PVC).
8.10.2 Sleeves shall pass through the full width of the wall or the full
thickness of the floor. Sleeves shall not impair the fire resistance of
a building. The annular space between the pipe and the sleeve shall be
sealed at one end to the pipe with a flexible fire resistant compound.
Where a sleeve passes through an exterior wall, the seal shall be on the
inside of the wall.

COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 8.10.2
The internal diameter of any sleeve should allow for an annular space
around the pipe to enable satisfactory insertion of the pipe into it and
be of sufficient diameter to allow adequate sealing between the pipe and
the sleeve.
Additional information on the installation of polyethylene pipe can be
found in the Institute of Gas
Engineers and Managers publication IGE/TD/4 [6], Gas Services.
8.10.3 Screwed, push-fit and compression joints shall not be located
within a sleeve.
8.10.4 The outside of the sleeve shall be secured and sealed at each end
to the structure of the building with
a suitable building material, e.g. cement mortar."

I am not sure what the most favoured "flexible fire resistant compound"
is however...

Heat resistant silicone.
Itumescent mastic




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:08:36 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2007-02-23, John Rumm wrote:

The purpose of the sleeve is to contain any escape of gas such that it
is vented outside the building (preventing corrosion of the pipe is a
welcome fringe benefit, but not the primary motivation).

Pity whoever installed the bottled gas system in my house didn't read
this... The bottles are outside and the 15mm copper pipe just comes
straight through the wall. No sleeving.

Just walk down any road of houses, and you'll see a number of
tell-tale signs of sealed system boilers, i.e. a flue terminal,
pressure relief pipe, and gas pipe all going through the wall
within a few feet of each other. It's remarkably rare to see
the gas pipe is actually sleaved, yet these will nearly all
have been installed by CORGIs. I often wonder why this particular
regulation is so universally ignored by the profession.

It makes the job harder and needs bigger tools.
To be fair the sleeving might not be easily visible from a distance.

There is much better inspection and montioring of gas work than there was
a few years ago.


As to what to do if the existing installation is sub standard.

If the pipes are dry and not leaking then the most any fitter would likely
categorise unsleeved pipework would be "At Risk".



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

Ed Sirett wrote:

Heat resistant silicone.

I would have though any (real) silicone was pretty heat resistant?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:52:23 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Ed Sirett wrote:

Heat resistant silicone.

I would have though any (real) silicone was pretty heat resistant?

Yeah, but have a look at the spec of "Heat Mate".



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards