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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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OT Windows Vista Warning
Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL
Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Malcolm |
#2
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On Feb 16, 11:26 pm, Malcolm Race wrote:
Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Most graphics cards will fail with it so I imagine Vista is going to go down as the ME of NT. And that Vista loaded computers will sell a lot cheaper than Xp loaded ones. And to think the Xp does not even support DVD! As soon as Vista came out all the companies supported by or responsible for RIAA started to wake up and smell the coffee. Even Steve Jobs realises that there is no future in computing for DRM. So where did your friend get his PC from? A second hand shop? Is he totally illiterate? Or was he off-planet when he started thinking about getting a new machine? |
#3
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OT Windows Vista Warning
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message ups.com... So where did your friend get his PC from? A second hand shop? Is he totally illiterate? Or was he off-planet when he started thinking about getting a new machine? What a rude plonker you are....!! |
#4
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On Feb 17, 1:23 am, "steveybar" wrote:
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message ups.com... So where did your friend get his PC from? A second hand shop? Is he totally illiterate? Or was he off-planet when he started thinking about getting a new machine? What a rude plonker you are....!! Ah yes, this is true. But wise. ANd thus have no real working knowledge of what I am talking about in this thread. BTB, do you suppose the friend of the OP is not illiterate? There have been a wonderful collection of stories thither and you about what a dog and pile of **** the OS is. I may be wrong of course and have swallowed all the hype about this work of idiocy, hook line and sinker. After all the Microsoft site does say it works quite well at booting one's machine. That at least is a plus if you don't also want to use it for standard desktop practices. |
#5
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OT Windows Vista Warning
in 617558 20070217 031845 "Weatherlawyer" wrote:
On Feb 17, 1:23 am, "steveybar" wrote: "Weatherlawyer" wrote in message ups.com... So where did your friend get his PC from? A second hand shop? Is he totally illiterate? Or was he off-planet when he started thinking about getting a new machine? What a rude plonker you are....!! Ah yes, this is true. But wise. ANd thus have no real working knowledge of what I am talking about in this thread. BTB, do you suppose the friend of the OP is not illiterate? There have been a wonderful collection of stories thither and you about what a dog and pile of **** the OS is. I may be wrong of course and have swallowed all the hype about this work of idiocy, hook line and sinker. After all the Microsoft site does say it works quite well at booting one's machine. That at least is a plus if you don't also want to use it for standard desktop practices. ****ed again, I see. |
#6
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On 16 Feb 2007 15:51:34 -0800, "Weatherlawyer"
wrote: On Feb 16, 11:26 pm, Malcolm Race wrote: Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Most graphics cards will fail with it Fail in what way? Not work at all? Please give reference for this claim. so I imagine Vista is going to go down as the ME of NT. Not a chance, not a chance at all. |
#7
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On 2007-02-16 23:26:04 +0000, Malcolm Race said:
Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Malcolm It rather demonstrates that Microsoft has shipped garbage yet again and the industry continues to suck it up. |
#8
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OT Windows Vista Warning
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2007-02-16 23:26:04 +0000, Malcolm Race said: Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Malcolm It rather demonstrates that Microsoft has shipped garbage yet again and the industry continues to suck it up. Do they have much choice? Consider a medium size company comitted to using MS for all its corporate office systems/accounts/etc. Can you imagine they horrendous difficulty/cost/staff training of switching over to another operating system - if a suitable one exists. That of course is just how Bill wanted it, tied into MS products. Now industry is reaping the harvest. Roger |
#9
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On 2007-02-17 12:02:55 +0000, "Roger R" said:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2007-02-16 23:26:04 +0000, Malcolm Race said: Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Malcolm It rather demonstrates that Microsoft has shipped garbage yet again and the industry continues to suck it up. Do they have much choice? Consider a medium size company comitted to using MS for all its corporate office systems/accounts/etc. Can you imagine they horrendous difficulty/cost/staff training of switching over to another operating system - if a suitable one exists. MS doesn't produce any operating systems. The best that they can manage is what amounts to a monitor with eye candy for users and a very weak platform to run service applications. Security profiles are appalling and networking functionality extremely weak. In short, the company is all about marketing and very little about technology and useful and stable applications. In terms of server platforms, any of the Unix derived ones by far and away exceed the quality and stability that MS achieves and can even host Windows requirements such as file storage. In terms of desktops, there are a whole host of applications available for Linux at little or no cost which will even handle files from MS applications. Commercially, Mac OS X is a proper operating system and comes with a rich set of applications. In short, it just works. One can even buy MS Office for it, although I note on my machine that if an application does crash, it is invariably Powerpoint, Excel or Word. That of course is just how Bill wanted it, tied into MS products. Now industry is reaping the harvest. Hopefully the anti-trust lobby will go after MS again. |
#10
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OT Windows Vista Warning
Malcolm Race wrote:
Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told Me thinks you are trying it the hard way. Virgin will work just fine on vista... Follow these steps: 1) Take virgin cd and throw it in the bin along with any supplied USB modem. 2) Buy a decent broadband router. 3) Connect to the PC and configure it with your virgin username and password 4) Tell windows its on a lan. Sorted categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Who cares - its hidden behind the router they have no visibility of what platform you are using. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. You can still buy them with XP preloaded if you want. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Understandable. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#11
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On 2007-02-17 00:16:18 +0000, John Rumm said:
Malcolm Race wrote: Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told Me thinks you are trying it the hard way. Virgin will work just fine on vista... Follow these steps: 1) Take virgin cd and throw it in the bin along with any supplied USB modem. 2) Buy a decent broadband router. 3) Connect to the PC and configure it with your virgin username and password 4) Tell windows its on a lan. Sorted categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Who cares - its hidden behind the router they have no visibility of what platform you are using. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. You can still buy them with XP preloaded if you want. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Understandable. It could be NTL cable. I use this as a backup to my normal connection. For that, they supply a modem with ethernet presentation. There is a CD that comes with it, in order to initially do the modem config and registration of the modem on the network. A lot of other assorted "user experience" stuff is installed as well and it seems to heavily use Javascript and other assorted material. The Windows version is bad enough, but the Mac version, which they do claim to support, just doesn't work properly at all. Fortunately, there is a way to manually access the modem and the registration web site without the need for the CD at all. However, I am fairly certain that you can't just go out and buy an arbitrary cable modem and plug it in. AFAIK, NTL's registration system looks for certain MAC address ranges for cable modems supported on their network. It then hands out temporary IP addresses via DHCP to enable the user to reach the registration site. After registration, the user is handed out an IP address for operational use. It's possible that the CD won't work on Vista and for that reason NTL could be saying that it is unsupported. If this is the issue, then this site may be of help http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.../register.html |
#12
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OT Windows Vista Warning
Andy Hall wrote:
It could be NTL cable. I use this as a backup to my normal connection. For that, they supply a modem with ethernet presentation. There is a CD that comes with it, in order to initially do the modem config and registration of the modem on the network. A lot of other assorted "user experience" stuff is installed as well and it seems to heavily use Javascript and other assorted material. The Windows version is bad enough, but the Mac version, which they do claim to support, just doesn't work properly at all. Fortunately, there is a way to manually access the modem and the registration web site without the need for the CD at all. Yup, you can access the web server in the modem via a web browser usually (assuming it is their usual motorola modem)... I tend to apply the same logic to any broadband hardware, if you ignore the supplied software and talk directly to the box you get a much more straightforward setup usually. However, I am fairly certain that you can't just go out and buy an arbitrary cable modem and plug it in. AFAIK, NTL's registration system looks for certain MAC address ranges for cable modems supported on their network. It then hands out temporary IP addresses via DHCP to enable the user to reach the registration site. After registration, the user is handed out an IP address for operational use. The way to deal with these is to use a ethernet to ethernet broadband router[1]. Connect it to the NTL modem box and then it handles NAT and sharing on your lan etc. There was a time where NTL used to enforce MAC address filtering on the network device that could connect to the modem, so during initial setup the MAC address of the NIC would have been set. Hence you had to register the MAC address of the router with them via a web site or tech support call. IIRC they allowed up to five different MAC addresses to be logged for one modem (obviously once the router was one of those any other restrictions became irrelevant). They seem to have dropped that restriction now though. [1] Linksys do a range of reasonable ones that are my default weapons of choice here. It's possible that the CD won't work on Vista and for that reason NTL could be saying that it is unsupported. Equally it could be they support staff have not been trained (or more likely do not have the first line tech support scripts) to talk people through setting up network settings under vista - IIUC an area where there has been quite a significant area of change. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#13
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On 2007-02-17 14:48:53 +0000, John Rumm said:
Andy Hall wrote: It could be NTL cable. I use this as a backup to my normal connection. For that, they supply a modem with ethernet presentation. There is a CD that comes with it, in order to initially do the modem config and registration of the modem on the network. A lot of other assorted "user experience" stuff is installed as well and it seems to heavily use Javascript and other assorted material. The Windows version is bad enough, but the Mac version, which they do claim to support, just doesn't work properly at all. Fortunately, there is a way to manually access the modem and the registration web site without the need for the CD at all. Yup, you can access the web server in the modem via a web browser usually (assuming it is their usual motorola modem)... I tend to apply the same logic to any broadband hardware, if you ignore the supplied software and talk directly to the box you get a much more straightforward setup usually. I think that's true, plus it doesn't pollute the computer with (more) unrequired junk. They are now supplying the NTL 250 as CPE which is manufactured by Ambit. This one has USB and Ethernet presentations. However, I am fairly certain that you can't just go out and buy an arbitrary cable modem and plug it in. AFAIK, NTL's registration system looks for certain MAC address ranges for cable modems supported on their network. It then hands out temporary IP addresses via DHCP to enable the user to reach the registration site. After registration, the user is handed out an IP address for operational use. The way to deal with these is to use a ethernet to ethernet broadband router[1]. Connect it to the NTL modem box and then it handles NAT and sharing on your lan etc. There was a time where NTL used to enforce MAC address filtering on the network device that could connect to the modem, so during initial setup the MAC address of the NIC would have been set. Hence you had to register the MAC address of the router with them via a web site or tech support call. IIRC they allowed up to five different MAC addresses to be logged for one modem (obviously once the router was one of those any other restrictions became irrelevant). They seem to have dropped that restriction now though. One would want to put such a device in place anyway since it would be foolhardy to trust the security capabilities of Microsoft on an unrestricted internet connection. I directly connected a PC with Knoppix to the modem and did the initial registration with that, then added in a Cisco 870 series router with DHCP enabled on the WAN port side. [1] Linksys do a range of reasonable ones that are my default weapons of choice here. These work pretty well IME. It's possible that the CD won't work on Vista and for that reason NTL could be saying that it is unsupported. Equally it could be they support staff have not been trained (or more likely do not have the first line tech support scripts) to talk people through setting up network settings under vista - IIUC an area where there has been quite a significant area of change. Mmm... There is a difference between "not supported" and "doesn't work" |
#14
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OT Windows Vista Warning
Andy Hall wrote:
I think that's true, plus it doesn't pollute the computer with (more) unrequired junk. That is one of the biggest pains with lots of these CDs. Especially where they seem to spend ages fiddling with the branding on IE etc. They are now supplying the NTL 250 as CPE which is manufactured by Ambit. This one has USB and Ethernet presentations. I think I have seen some of those as well - they behave in much the same way. The way to deal with these is to use a ethernet to ethernet broadband router[1]. Connect it to the NTL modem box and then it handles NAT and sharing on your lan etc. There was a time where NTL used to enforce MAC address filtering on the network device that could connect to the modem, so during initial setup the MAC address of the NIC would have been set. Hence you had to register the MAC address of the router with them via a web site or tech support call. IIRC they allowed up to five different MAC addresses to be logged for one modem (obviously once the router was one of those any other restrictions became irrelevant). They seem to have dropped that restriction now though. One would want to put such a device in place anyway since it would be foolhardy to trust the security capabilities of Microsoft on an unrestricted internet connection. IIRC, should you run the CD they supply one of the things it is quite anal about ensuring a firewall is installed. While I agree with you about not relying on software firewalls, it does at least show a certain amount of responsibility in production of the supporting software CD. This could be one area where the CD would fail. Vista makes (by design) hooking low level system components (as is the want of most AV and firewall apps) much harder than with XP et al. To an extent there is an element of damned if you do and damned if you don't here. They get slated for poor security, then get slated for braking old software by attempting to fix some of the shortcomings. (not having unrestricted access to all hives in the registry being other potential problems for old software). It's possible that the CD won't work on Vista and for that reason NTL could be saying that it is unsupported. Equally it could be they support staff have not been trained (or more likely do not have the first line tech support scripts) to talk people through setting up network settings under vista - IIUC an area where there has been quite a significant area of change. Mmm... There is a difference between "not supported" and "doesn't work" There is, although it is easy to see how the difference can be lost on the causal observer. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#15
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OT Windows Vista Warning
"Malcolm Race" wrote in message
... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ would be a better forum for that one. You would expect Virgin to have tested their install procedures with one of the pre release copies of Vista! The idea that Vista does not work with ethernet port on the Dell beggars belief, so use a router. -- Michael Chare |
#16
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OT Virgin - Warning
"Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? |
#17
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OT Virgin - Warning
in 617552 20070217 014725 "OG" wrote:
"Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Maybe because one is not being unreasonable in expecting an operating system to be backward-compatible? Especially when one is given no choice as to which OS is loaded on a new machine. |
#18
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OT Virgin - Warning
On 2007-02-17 08:48:54 +0000, Bob Martin said:
in 617552 20070217 014725 "OG" wrote: "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Maybe because one is not being unreasonable in expecting an operating system to be backward-compatible? Especially when one is given no choice as to which OS is loaded on a new machine. Ah, but you're forgetting that Windows is a monitor, not an operating system. |
#19
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OT Virgin - Warning
"Bob Martin" wrote in message ... in 617552 20070217 014725 "OG" wrote: "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Maybe because one is not being unreasonable in expecting an operating system to be backward-compatible? Especially when one is given no choice as to which OS is loaded on a new machine. It depends on how well/badly the software has been written. You may get away with badly written software on one OS, but not on another. Similar to the way that some non-w3c complient webpages may be rendered OK on some browsers, but not on others. It's not the fault of the browser. What is worrying is that Virgin know their software doesn't work on Vista and have done nothing about it. |
#20
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OT Virgin - Warning
in 617610 20070217 120940 "OG" wrote:
"Bob Martin" wrote in message ... in 617552 20070217 014725 "OG" wrote: "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Maybe because one is not being unreasonable in expecting an operating system to be backward-compatible? Especially when one is given no choice as to which OS is loaded on a new machine. It depends on how well/badly the software has been written. You may get away with badly written software on one OS, but not on another. Similar to the way that some non-w3c complient webpages may be rendered OK on some browsers, but not on others. It's not the fault of the browser. What is worrying is that Virgin know their software doesn't work on Vista and have done nothing about it. I don't think it's valid to compare html (which is really source code) with working compiled code. While the former may be rejected by a more standards-conforming compiler or browser the latter should work on subsequent versions of the same operating system (Vista is Windows, isn't it?). Also, knowing a program doesn't work under Vista and doing something about it are quite different things. Seems Vista was actually designed to break a lot of old code. |
#21
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OT Virgin - Warning
"Bob Martin" wrote in message ... in 617610 20070217 120940 "OG" wrote: "Bob Martin" wrote in message ... in 617552 20070217 014725 "OG" wrote: "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Maybe because one is not being unreasonable in expecting an operating system to be backward-compatible? Especially when one is given no choice as to which OS is loaded on a new machine. It depends on how well/badly the software has been written. You may get away with badly written software on one OS, but not on another. Similar to the way that some non-w3c complient webpages may be rendered OK on some browsers, but not on others. It's not the fault of the browser. What is worrying is that Virgin know their software doesn't work on Vista and have done nothing about it. I don't think it's valid to compare html (which is really source code) with working compiled code. While the former may be rejected by a more standards-conforming compiler or browser the latter should work on subsequent versions of the same operating system (Vista is Windows, isn't it?). Also, knowing a program doesn't work under Vista and doing something about it are quite different things. Seems Vista was actually designed to break a lot of old code. Well, making Vista more secure was part of the drive behind it. We know that XP and earlier versions of Windows allowed poorly written software to do things that made the OS insecure. If Virgin's software did things that it shouldn't do (I don't know that this is the case, but it IS possible), I would expect ot not to work on Vista. Again; why blame MS for that? |
#22
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OT Virgin - Warning
In article ,
OG wrote: "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Indeed. They're hardly in a position to do so - punters are far more likely to change to an ISP that offers support than not to use Vista. But surely you don't need that support? I'm with Pipex and set up my connection from basics - I'm using RISC OS, and non of the large ISPs offer support for that. -- *When it rains, why don't sheep shrink? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#23
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OT Virgin - Warning
in 617640 20070217 140440 "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article , OG wrote: "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Basically to summarise the previous resonses Virgin are unprepared for Vista Why blame Vista ? Indeed. They're hardly in a position to do so - punters are far more likely to change to an ISP that offers support than not to use Vista. But surely you don't need that support? I'm with Pipex and set up my connection from basics - I'm using RISC OS, and non of the large ISPs offer support for that. If everyone had your level of competence and knowledge then Microsoft would probably have gone out of business many years ago and this problem would never have arisen. As to whether Vista deserves to be called an operating system, take away the flashy graphical desktop and you are about where mainframe OSs were 25 years ago. |
#24
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OT Windows Vista Warning
"Malcolm Race" wrote in message
... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Doesn't matter if you use a router rather than a USB modem - which is a more reliable, flexible and secure solution too... cheers, clive |
#25
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OT Windows Vista Warning
"Clive George" wrote in message ... "Malcolm Race" wrote in message ... Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Doesn't matter if you use a router rather than a USB modem - which is a more reliable, flexible and secure solution too... cheers, clive Lots of bits of hardware don't work with Vista, try getting a Samsung ML 1210 printer to install for example And there is lots of fun to be had with the User Account Control and older software packages But then years ago when XP SP2 was first released once installed my network port and ISDN card stopped working However many of the problems are due to other manufacturers not providing Vista compatible drivers. There have been many such issues with XP 64bit drivers Tony |
#26
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OT Windows Vista Warning
However many of the problems are due to other manufacturers not providing
Vista compatible drivers. The drivers for which the manuafacturers have to pay Microsoft for a "works with Vista" stucker, before they'll allow them to installed on it. Anything remotely media related is now horrendously messy to write for (which is the reason Nvidia are still struggling to get one working !) due to onerous conditions of a "protected path environment", bit- flipping (which is likely prone to being affected by something as simple as a mains spike), enforced shutdown of any type of output that might be used to copy media of any sort, and degraded video / audio of any non- protected path hardware. |
#27
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OT Windows Vista Warning
Colin Wilson wrote:
However many of the problems are due to other manufacturers not providing Vista compatible drivers. The drivers for which the manuafacturers have to pay Microsoft for a "works with Vista" stucker, before they'll allow them to installed on it. Anything remotely media related is now horrendously messy to write for (which is the reason Nvidia are still struggling to get one working !) due to onerous conditions of a "protected path environment", bit- flipping (which is likely prone to being affected by something as simple as a mains spike), enforced shutdown of any type of output that might be used to copy media of any sort, and degraded video / audio of any non- protected path hardware. http://www.theregister.com/2007/02/14/pricey_beta_bugger/ |
#28
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 09:34:23 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote: Colin Wilson wrote: However many of the problems are due to other manufacturers not providing Vista compatible drivers. The drivers for which the manuafacturers have to pay Microsoft for a "works with Vista" stucker, before they'll allow them to installed on it. Anything remotely media related is now horrendously messy to write for (which is the reason Nvidia are still struggling to get one working !) due to onerous conditions of a "protected path environment", bit- flipping (which is likely prone to being affected by something as simple as a mains spike), enforced shutdown of any type of output that might be used to copy media of any sort, and degraded video / audio of any non- protected path hardware. http://www.theregister.com/2007/02/14/pricey_beta_bugger/ I emailed the author of that article, pointing out the reams of mistakes he'd made and lack of knowledge about the subject matter he'd shown throughout. Not only that, but I questioned him on his clear anti-ms agenda (notice his title "Bugs and confusion", yet nowhere in his article does he mention any bugs, nor does he even use the word "bug" in the body of his article). Not too surprisingly, he didn't reply. I guess he was only interested in bitching. |
#29
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OT Windows Vista Warning
Clive George wrote:
Doesn't matter if you use a router rather than a USB modem - which is a more reliable, flexible and secure solution too... That depends what software is a) on the router b) on the machine that would otherwise be connected to the modem (OK so in the case of Vista it's probably true). Alex |
#30
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On Feb 16, 11:26 pm, Malcolm Race wrote:
Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Brownie points to Dell who are sending a copy of XP so that I can 'downgrade' the machine and get it working. BUT wearing another hat where I deal with the corporate side of Dell I am thold that they would not think of shipping a machine with Vista! Malcolm What exact problem are you having? Presumably you're connecting to the modem via USB and hence require drivers? If the laptop has an Ethernet port use that - completely standard interface and will work with the modem without drivers (assuming Virgin modems have ethernet ports - I'd be surprised if they didn't). Connecting this way makes the choice of OS irrelevant. Mathew |
#31
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OT Windows Vista Warning
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:26:04 GMT, Malcolm Race
wrote: Ater a torrid time trying to help a friend install Virgin (aka NTL Broadband on a new Dell laptop with Vista installed I have been told categorically by the Virgin helpline that they do no support Vista. Slightly alarming as it seems that all new computers ship with Vista pre-installed. Aye, pretty bad show from Microsoft for sneaking out a new OS and not giving companies oohh, at least 12 months to make sure their stuff works on it... As it happens, I'm using Vista over NTL. It works fine - the problem is not with the OS or even the service, it's the install disc which needs fixing. I'd suggest you chuck the disc in the bin and just allow the Vista network wizard to do its thing. |
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