A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I stand
with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see them
very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

--


--
John

John wrote:

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

The fence to my left belongs to my neighbour (70's estate)

"John" wrote in message
...
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I
stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see them
very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

--


--
John




Mine is end and right according to the deeds.

--
Steve

"Steve Rainbird" wrote in message
...
"John" wrote in message
...
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I
stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see
them very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

--


--
John




Mine is end and right according to the deeds.

--
Steve




Thanks - not a convention then. Will dig out my plan and show it my
neighbour.

John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is
not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left
as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I
get the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't
see them very often and they feel I am opting out of my
responsibilities.
Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?

There is no formal convention John. The subject has, and remains, a real
pain for everyone but the lawyers and surveyors who profit from sorting out
disputes. This page is a good point of reference.

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/boundaries.html

Peter Crosland

In article ,
John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it
is not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to
the left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is
a convention.
[s]
Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?

Wouldn't it be more likely to be as defined in the deeds?

Our house was the first one built on this plot of land,
then next door down a few years later, and a self-build
on the other side later still. Our deeds state that we
own both fences, (presumably because we were the first
to have fences).

--
Tony Williams.

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it
is not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to
the left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is
a convention.
[s]
Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?

Wouldn't it be more likely to be as defined in the deeds?

Our house was the first one built on this plot of land,
then next door down a few years later, and a self-build
on the other side later still. Our deeds state that we
own both fences, (presumably because we were the first
to have fences).

--
Tony Williams.

The plan with my deeds has the "T" mark on my end and left fence and I
believe this is common for the whole development (1988)

"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it
is not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to
the left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is
a convention.
[s]
Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?

Wouldn't it be more likely to be as defined in the deeds?

Our house was the first one built on this plot of land,
then next door down a few years later, and a self-build
on the other side later still. Our deeds state that we
own both fences, (presumably because we were the first
to have fences).

My deeds state that I own all fences around my garden, but so do those of
the neighbours either side.

Colin Bignell

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it
is not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to
the left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is
a convention.
[s]
Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?
Wouldn't it be more likely to be as defined in the deeds?

Our house was the first one built on this plot of land,
then next door down a few years later, and a self-build
on the other side later still. Our deeds state that we
own both fences, (presumably because we were the first
to have fences).

My deeds state that I own all fences around my garden, but so do those of
the neighbours either side.

Colin Bignell



In a line of houses there's always an extra fence. If everybody's only
responsible for one, ISTM you end up with an orphan

"John" wrote in message
...
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I
stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see them
very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

--


--
John



According to my deeds, house built in 1951, I have joint fences and so it it
the responsibility of both myself and my neighbours to put matters right.
--
the_constructor

Stuart Noble wrote:
nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it
is not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to
the left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is
a convention.
[s]
Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?
Wouldn't it be more likely to be as defined in the deeds?

Our house was the first one built on this plot of land,
then next door down a few years later, and a self-build
on the other side later still. Our deeds state that we
own both fences, (presumably because we were the first
to have fences).

My deeds state that I own all fences around my garden, but so do those
of the neighbours either side.

Colin Bignell


In a line of houses there's always an extra fence. If everybody's only
responsible for one, ISTM you end up with an orphan

Mostly no one really knows.

Especially if the row was put up all at once.

Cf 'My pink half of the drainpipe' etc..

MY neighbour claims one hedge, because there is a ditch inside it.. I
remarked he owned that too, and would he care to maintain it? I haven't
heard since, and I have been maintaining them both.. I guess I DO own
that ditch now, since he hasn't touched it in 12 years and I have been
maintaining it.. Common law and all that.


On the other side he couldn't work out who owned it..no ditch. Looking
at a very old map reveals that part or the garden is probably post 20th
century addition anyway and a plot of land was added to the original
field boundaries..the house was originally a dairy in the corner of one
field..on a large estate..at some point it was sold off and a line drawn
roughly to the other side of that field and that became attached to the
property. There are no deeds that clearly mark out anything. We could
spend a fortune deciding. I deliberately left in some trees that were
along that boundary as old stumps in case anyone wants to argue the toss
at some later date.

There may be 'conventions' but the reality is it is entirely down to who
put it up on whose land. If deeds don't say, or conflict, its anybodies
guess. Best advice is ask neighbour to fix his broken fence...if he says
'its not mine to fix' get that in writing, and fix it yourself. You are
now the proud owner of a fence.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:54:56 -0000, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname
here.uk.com wrote:

|
|"Tony Williams" wrote in message
...
| In article ,
| John wrote:
| A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it
| is not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to
| the left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is
| a convention.
| [s]
| Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
| formal convention?
|
| Wouldn't it be more likely to be as defined in the deeds?
|
| Our house was the first one built on this plot of land,
| then next door down a few years later, and a self-build
| on the other side later still. Our deeds state that we
| own both fences, (presumably because we were the first
| to have fences).
|
|My deeds state that I own all fences around my garden, but so do those of
|the neighbours either side.

In our case the gardens C1950s house were divided by a post and single rail
on top fence, these were jointly owned and have been replaced by
walls/fences/nothing, on the original line, by successive owners, by mutual
consent.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

MY neighbour claims one hedge, because there is a ditch inside it.. I
remarked he owned that too, and would he care to maintain it? I haven't
heard since, and I have been maintaining them both.. I guess I DO own
that ditch now, since he hasn't touched it in 12 years and I have been
maintaining it.. Common law and all that.

The ditch/hedge rule stems from the days when landowners were required
to identify their plot by digging a ditch. The assumption is that you
would have stood on your own land to dig and thrown the soil back to
your own side, creating a bank. Commonly a hedge would be planted on the
bank.

This only works if subsequent sales have not been by some other feature.
My fields all have ditched and hedged boundaries but, in fact, were sold
away from the estate by *the fences*.

IANAL:-)

With a fence it is usual to have the supporting posts on the *owners*
side.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:40:32 -0000, "the_constructor"
wrote:


According to my deeds, house built in 1951, I have joint fences and so it it
the responsibility of both myself and my neighbours to put matters right.

Same here, for my house built in the early 70s.

--
Frank Erskine

In article ,
"John" writes:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I stand
with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see them
very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

No.

If the fences have a flat side and a structure side, and they
all have the flat sides facing the same way, then in the absence
of any other indicators, you own the fences with the structure
side on your side. The reason being that the boundary is a
straight line, and your fence must be on your side of the
boundary, so the flat side buts up against the boundary.
If the fence was the other way around, it would prevent you
accessing all your property. In boundary disputes, the
orientation of fences has been use to decide the outcome,
and there are probably cases where someone who has put a fence
in the wrong way round (quite common, because they want to see
the flat side) have lost the fence and the land it stands on.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"John" wrote in message
...
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I
stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see them
very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?


--
John

AIUI; there isn't _ a convention_. The ownership of fences _is_ specified
in the titles deeds to the property.
A 'convention' has arisen whereby developers assign 'ownership' of fences to
one 'holder' of each property they develop: Thus; imagine house
A-:f1-B-f2-C-f3 .... et seq ... Holder of A 'owns' fence1; Holder of B
'owns' fence2; et.seq. Such a 'convention' will be stipulated in the title
deeds for Property A along the lines of ' .. and the fence on the (compass
orientation) side.

Frequently the developers assign 'ownership' of the fence to the property
which has the fence posts and/or rails on it. This has _misled_ some folks
to inferring a general rule that if the posts and rails are on _your_ side,
the fence belongs to you - but this isn't the law.

In my particular case; the property _jointly_ shares two fences (either
side) while the property 'owns' the fence along the rear of the garden.
it's all stated very explicitly in the Title Deeds.

--

Brian

"Brian Sharrock" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I
stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see
them very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?


--
John

AIUI; there isn't _ a convention_. The ownership of fences _is_ specified
in the titles deeds to the property.
A 'convention' has arisen whereby developers assign 'ownership' of fences
to one 'holder' of each property they develop: Thus; imagine house
A-:f1-B-f2-C-f3 .... et seq ... Holder of A 'owns' fence1; Holder of B
'owns' fence2; et.seq. Such a 'convention' will be stipulated in the
title deeds for Property A along the lines of ' .. and the fence on the
(compass orientation) side.

Frequently the developers assign 'ownership' of the fence to the property
which has the fence posts and/or rails on it. This has _misled_ some folks
to inferring a general rule that if the posts and rails are on _your_
side, the fence belongs to you - but this isn't the law.

In my particular case; the property _jointly_ shares two fences (either
side) while the property 'owns' the fence along the rear of the garden.
it's all stated very explicitly in the Title Deeds.

--

Brian

I found my plans - which have the "T" symbols. I showed this to my neighbour
who now accepts it is their fence - however, as I have the time and
inclination I am going to fix it as they are very nice people - but I wanted
to ensure that ownership was understood by all parties.

A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is
not mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the
left as I stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a
convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it
(I get the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I
don't see them very often and they feel I am opting out of my
responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a
formal convention?

No.

If the fences have a flat side and a structure side, and they
all have the flat sides facing the same way, then in the absence
of any other indicators, you own the fences with the structure
side on your side. The reason being that the boundary is a
straight line, and your fence must be on your side of the
boundary, so the flat side buts up against the boundary.
If the fence was the other way around, it would prevent you
accessing all your property. In boundary disputes, the
orientation of fences has been use to decide the outcome,
and there are probably cases where someone who has put a fence
in the wrong way round (quite common, because they want to see
the flat side) have lost the fence and the land it stands on.

I suggest you take a look here

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/

And you will find that it is not nearly as simple. In fact nothing to do
with boundaries ever is! The site above is the best I have found so far and
is well worth bookmarking for future reference.

Peter Crosland

John wrote:
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I stand
with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see them
very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

Related query - what happens if the owner of property A assumes
maintenance of a fence - ie replaces it when it's knackered - does that
affect its "ownership"? ie, if a future owner of property A digs out
the deeds showing that the boundary is in fact the responsibility of
property B, and asks him to repair it, can the owner of B say 'no, it's
A's fence, not mine'

David

I found my plans - which have the "T" symbols. I showed this to my
neighbour who now accepts it is their fence - however, as I have the
time and inclination I am going to fix it as they are very nice
people - but I wanted to ensure that ownership was understood by all
parties.

A very sensible solution. It is seldom good sense to be on anything but good
terms with your neighbour.

Peter Crosland

On 30 Jan, 19:20, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

MY neighbour claims one hedge, because there is a ditch inside it.. I
remarked he owned that too, and would he care to maintain it? I haven't
heard since, and I have been maintaining them both.. I guess I DO own
that ditch now, since he hasn't touched it in 12 years and I have been
maintaining it.. Common law and all that.

The ditch/hedge rule stems from the days when landowners were required
to identify their plot by digging a ditch. The assumption is that you
would have stood on your own land to dig and thrown the soil back to
your own side, creating a bank. Commonly a hedge would be planted on the
bank.

This only works if subsequent sales have not been by some other feature.
My fields all have ditched and hedged boundaries but, in fact, were sold
away from the estate by *the fences*.

IANAL:-)

With a fence it is usual to have the supporting posts on the *owners*
side.

Our deeds mark our left hand fence as being ours, and the (wooden)
fence posts are on their side. That way I can replace fence panels
from my side.

On Jan 31, 2:11 pm, "Jethro" wrote:
On 30 Jan, 19:20, Tim Lamb wrote:





In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

MY neighbour claims one hedge, because there is a ditch inside it.. I
remarked he owned that too, and would he care to maintain it? I haven't
heard since, and I have been maintaining them both.. I guess I DO own
that ditch now, since he hasn't touched it in 12 years and I have been
maintaining it.. Common law and all that.

The ditch/hedge rule stems from the days when landowners were required
to identify their plot by digging a ditch. The assumption is that you
would have stood on your own land to dig and thrown the soil back to
your own side, creating a bank. Commonly a hedge would be planted on the
bank.

This only works if subsequent sales have not been by some other feature.
My fields all have ditched and hedged boundaries but, in fact, were sold
away from the estate by *the fences*.

IANAL:-)

With a fence it is usual to have the supporting posts on the *owners*
side.

Our deeds mark our left hand fence as being ours, and the (wooden)
fence posts are on their side. That way I can replace fence panels
from my side.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So the posts are on your neighbours' property?

On 31 Jan, 14:15, "adder1969" wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:11 pm, "Jethro" wrote:





On 30 Jan, 19:20, Tim Lamb wrote:

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes

MY neighbour claims one hedge, because there is a ditch inside it.. I
remarked he owned that too, and would he care to maintain it? I haven't
heard since, and I have been maintaining them both.. I guess I DO own
that ditch now, since he hasn't touched it in 12 years and I have been
maintaining it.. Common law and all that.

The ditch/hedge rule stems from the days when landowners were required
to identify their plot by digging a ditch. The assumption is that you
would have stood on your own land to dig and thrown the soil back to
your own side, creating a bank. Commonly a hedge would be planted on the
bank.

This only works if subsequent sales have not been by some other feature.
My fields all have ditched and hedged boundaries but, in fact, were sold
away from the estate by *the fences*.

IANAL:-)

With a fence it is usual to have the supporting posts on the *owners*
side.

Our deeds mark our left hand fence as being ours, and the (wooden)
fence posts are on their side. That way I can replace fence panels
from my side.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So the posts are on your neighbours' property?

Yes. But the *fence* (which is about 40mm wide at the top) runs dead
central from the edge of our building (i.e 20mm into our and 20mm into
theirs) along the garden.

When they need replacing I'll unscrew the fence panels (what's left of
them :-( ) and do the work from my side.

On 30 Jan, 10:59, "John" wrote:

Mine is end and right according to the deeds.

Thanks - not a convention then.

On the contrary - unfortunately like many conventions however there're
more than one! ;-)

Mathew

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:59:32 GMT, "John"
wrote:


"Steve Rainbird" wrote in message
...
"John" wrote in message
...
A fence has got damaged in the wind and according to my deeds it is not
mine. My fence is the one at the end of my garden and to the left as I
stand with my back to the house. I believe this is a convention.

I want to tactfully tell my neighbour that I will not be fixing it (I get
the impression they are waiting for me to do something). I don't see
them very often and they feel I am opting out of my responsibilities.

Any suggestions - is the boundary "to the left and at the end" a formal
convention?

--


--
John




Mine is end and right according to the deeds.

--
Steve




Thanks - not a convention then. Will dig out my plan and show it my
neighbour.

I always thought that the side the fence posts were on indentified the
owner...