Hi everyone

I recently employed a local plumber to install a shower enclosure using
materials that I supplied i.e. quad enclosure, shower tray and wetwall
panelling. The shower looks great.....but the enclosure leaks.

To be fair to the plumbers they have returned several times to
re-silicone the joints but everything so far has failed. Trouble is
they are now obviously fed up and have decided to go AWOL. They
promised to come out on Wednesday but they didn't show - not the first
time they have done this. The buggers are now ignoring my phonecalls.

Unfortunately I paid them after it was installed (in cash of course) -
now that they have their money they seem to have given up on customer
service. They have complained that I got the stuff in "from the
internet" - but I had everything in advance of the work starting so that
they could check it all through as requested. Of course, they didn't
bother. My position is that they had the opportunity to check the
materials before they started - if they didn't like them they could have
turned the job down.

The leak appears to be coming from between the shower enclosure and the
top of the tray. More worryingly it now seems to be leaking somewhere
at the back because I have started to see some water coming from under
the tray. Obviously I need to get this sorted before more problems set
in...

Any advice on how I can take this further? Is it worth pursuing this or
should I just bite the bullet and pay for another plumber or tackle this
myself. Now that all the pipework is in place I am confident enough to
tackle dismantling the enclosure and re-siliconing everything as it is
reassembled. It is more the principle - I paid someone to do the job
and I would expect not to have to clear the mess up after them.

I seem to remember a website that has a database of tradesmen and
customer comments - does anyone have any links??

Thanks for the advice

M

magpie wrote:

To be fair to the plumbers they have returned several times to
re-silicone the joints but everything so far has failed.

So where is it leaking from...the siliconed joints, trap, door?


Unfortunately I paid them after it was installed (in cash of course) -
now that they have their money they seem to have given up on customer
service.

The fact that they came a few times suggest that they weren't out to
rip you off.
Did you ask for and get a receipt for the work?


They have complained that I got the stuff in "from the internet"

Did they complain that they didn't supply hence lost on profits or that
internet goods are sometimes truly rubbish?


but I had everything in advance of the work starting so that
they could check it all through as requested. Of course, they didn't
bother. My position is that they had the opportunity to check the
materials before they started - if they didn't like them they could have
turned the job down.

That's a fair point but sometimes you can visually inspect things and
only when it's fitted together the poor design and manufacture really
shows.



The leak appears to be coming from between the shower enclosure and the
top of the tray. More worryingly it now seems to be leaking somewhere
at the back because I have started to see some water coming from under
the tray. Obviously I need to get this sorted before more problems set
in...

Do you have any access to under the tray? Shine a light under and see
where water is running down.


Any advice on how I can take this further? Is it worth pursuing this or
should I just bite the bullet and pay for another plumber or tackle this
myself. Now that all the pipework is in place I am confident enough to
tackle dismantling the enclosure and re-siliconing everything as it is
reassembled.

If you're confident then do it yourself. That way you'll may see for
yourself what the problem is and not end up with another potentially
dodgy plumber (who will no doubt moan about the previous guys work and
your materials).


It is more the principle - I paid someone to do the job and I would expect not to have to clear the mess up after them.

Fair point again but a little to late for that unfortunately... unless
they come back.


I seem to remember a website that has a database of tradesmen and
customer comments - does anyone have any links??

Is that to find a plumber or complain about the one you dealt with?

Thanks for the reply cucumber! I have tried to answer your points...



So where is it leaking from...the siliconed joints, trap, door?

It is leaking between the bottom of the enclosure and the top of the
tray. Looks as if the join between wetwall panel and tray is also leaking.


The fact that they came a few times suggest that they weren't out to
rip you off.
Did you ask for and get a receipt for the work?

I am sure that they didn't set out to rip me off. I reckon that they
have been out so many times now that they have decided that the profit
margin on this job is now negligible. I asked for a receipt but so far
haven;t received one. Naive of me, I know.

Did they complain that they didn't supply hence lost on profits or that
internet goods are sometimes truly rubbish?

When I asked them round for the estimate they asked me to supply the
materials. The stuff seems well enough made (to me).

That's a fair point but sometimes you can visually inspect things and
only when it's fitted together the poor design and manufacture really
shows.

Point taken...

Do you have any access to under the tray? Shine a light under and see
where water is running down.

I will have a look this afternoon.

If you're confident then do it yourself. That way you'll may see for
yourself what the problem is and not end up with another potentially
dodgy plumber (who will no doubt moan about the previous guys work and
your materials).

That route is looking increasingly likely. The reason that I got a
plumber in was a lack of time on my part and trying to ensure that the
job was done properly first time. I reckon that I could have done the
job myself but obviously it would have taken me three times as long as a
plumber...

My original post was really trying to get at is it really worth pursuing
these matters further? If so, how have people tackled their own
problems? The absolute disregard for customer satisfaction in what is a
service industry really bugs me sometimes. I know that lots of
tradesmen are decent and honest but the naff few really cause lots of
disruption. Not turning up for appointments without so much as a
phonecall is my biggest bugbear - especially when you have taken the day
off.


It is more the principle - I paid someone to do the job and I would expect not to have to clear the mess up after them.
Fair point again but a little to late for that unfortunately... unless
they come back.

Point taken...again :-)


I seem to remember a website that has a database of tradesmen and
customer comments - does anyone have any links??

Is that to find a plumber or complain about the one you dealt with?

Both!!! It would be interesting to see if anyone has left reports on
these guys. Anyone have any links?


Thanks again for the input. Would be good to hear others opinions.

Just in relation to the last point really . . .


Since being ripped off by a rogue electrician, I decided to go ahead
and set up a site to allow users to feedback on builders/handymen and
the likes. I'm at the stage now where I need to build up the database
so if you know anyone who may want to advertise for free, tell them
about it!!! (However its only based in the north west uk at the moment)

Obviously I don't want to be lynched by the google crew for advertising
the site on here (I'm not sure exactly what the etiquette is for
advertising websites on groups!), but if you are interested in knowing
more, please feel free to mail me.

PS - Its not for profit, its all free - even for posting adverts on.
Just want to try to only get the good builders to get the work and stop
what happened to me happening to others.

Martin






magpie wrote:
Thanks for the reply cucumber! I have tried to answer your points...



So where is it leaking from...the siliconed joints, trap, door?

It is leaking between the bottom of the enclosure and the top of the
tray. Looks as if the join between wetwall panel and tray is also leaking.


The fact that they came a few times suggest that they weren't out to
rip you off.
Did you ask for and get a receipt for the work?

I am sure that they didn't set out to rip me off. I reckon that they
have been out so many times now that they have decided that the profit
margin on this job is now negligible. I asked for a receipt but so far
haven;t received one. Naive of me, I know.

Did they complain that they didn't supply hence lost on profits or that
internet goods are sometimes truly rubbish?

When I asked them round for the estimate they asked me to supply the
materials. The stuff seems well enough made (to me).

That's a fair point but sometimes you can visually inspect things and
only when it's fitted together the poor design and manufacture really
shows.

Point taken...

Do you have any access to under the tray? Shine a light under and see
where water is running down.

I will have a look this afternoon.

If you're confident then do it yourself. That way you'll may see for
yourself what the problem is and not end up with another potentially
dodgy plumber (who will no doubt moan about the previous guys work and
your materials).

That route is looking increasingly likely. The reason that I got a
plumber in was a lack of time on my part and trying to ensure that the
job was done properly first time. I reckon that I could have done the
job myself but obviously it would have taken me three times as long as a
plumber...

My original post was really trying to get at is it really worth pursuing
these matters further? If so, how have people tackled their own
problems? The absolute disregard for customer satisfaction in what is a
service industry really bugs me sometimes. I know that lots of
tradesmen are decent and honest but the naff few really cause lots of
disruption. Not turning up for appointments without so much as a
phonecall is my biggest bugbear - especially when you have taken the day
off.


It is more the principle - I paid someone to do the job and I would expect not to have to clear the mess up after them.
Fair point again but a little to late for that unfortunately... unless
they come back.

Point taken...again :-)


I seem to remember a website that has a database of tradesmen and
customer comments - does anyone have any links??

Is that to find a plumber or complain about the one you dealt with?

Both!!! It would be interesting to see if anyone has left reports on
these guys. Anyone have any links?


Thanks again for the input. Would be good to hear others opinions.

In message . com,
writes
Just in relation to the last point really . . .


Since being ripped off by a rogue electrician, I decided to go ahead
and set up a site to allow users to feedback on builders/handymen and
the likes. I'm at the stage now where I need to build up the database
so if you know anyone who may want to advertise for free, tell them
about it!!! (However its only based in the north west uk at the moment)

Obviously I don't want to be lynched by the google crew for advertising
the site on here (I'm not sure exactly what the etiquette is for
advertising websites on groups!), but if you are interested in knowing
more, please feel free to mail me.

Advertising is not your sin

Being a top posting, non snipping , clueless retard however ...


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message . com,
writes
Just in relation to the last point really . . .


Since being ripped off by a rogue electrician, I decided to go ahead
and set up a site to allow users to feedback on builders/handymen and
the likes. I'm at the stage now where I need to build up the database
so if you know anyone who may want to advertise for free, tell them
about it!!! (However its only based in the north west uk at the moment)

Obviously I don't want to be lynched by the google crew for advertising
the site on here (I'm not sure exactly what the etiquette is for
advertising websites on groups!), but if you are interested in knowing
more, please feel free to mail me.

Advertising is not your sin

Being a top posting, non snipping , clueless retard however ...

I'd prefer top-posting to people who write abuse like that..

BTW names start with a capital.



--
geoff

The message . com
from contains these words:

Obviously I don't want to be lynched by the google crew for advertising
the site on here

What the hell's it got to do with Google? They're nothing to do with
newsgroups.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

PS - Its not for profit, its all free - even for posting adverts on.
Just want to try to only get the good builders to get the work and stop
what happened to me happening to others.

Good enough idea as it would be in a many other areas too.

The only problem would be the abuse of your website. Dodgy builders
leaving themselves many good reports or someone with a grudge leaving a
decent tradesmen many bad reports. If you have a way of filtering the
fake reports then you're on to a winner, otherwise......

Thanks for the comments folks -

geoff (with the small g) - Not sure how I offended you but apologies on
me posting something that has caused you to react the way you have
done. I wouldn't want you to be offended any more so please do not read
on.

Everyone else who kindly got back to me - thanks for your ideas.

Cucumber, I've got a restriction where it's only one IP address per
feedback comment per company and it records this address so its
possible for me to see who has posted what. I understand your points -
with manual verification occurring before the ad goes live though, this
should hopefully reduce this (although I'm aware it will not
eliminate abuse). I'm also working on an appeals process that will
allow declined ads to be reviewed.

It's only just going live, so the first month or so will decide whether
it will work or not. It is done more of as a hobby project rather than
a business venture so nothing to lose if it goes belly up.

Constructive criticism/feedback is definitely welcomed so if I've no
objections by folk, I'll post a link to the site. Obviously if this
is not the done thing - I'll leave it. Please let me know though -
I'm relatively new to Google groups ( as pointed out - advertising is
not my sin.)










cucumber wrote:
PS - Its not for profit, its all free - even for posting adverts on.
Just want to try to only get the good builders to get the work and stop
what happened to me happening to others.

Good enough idea as it would be in a many other areas too.

The only problem would be the abuse of your website. Dodgy builders
leaving themselves many good reports or someone with a grudge leaving a
decent tradesmen many bad reports. If you have a way of filtering the
fake reports then you're on to a winner, otherwise......