I'm preparing for a new boiler installation in a new kitchen. Space is
tight, and I am running all 5 pipes to/from the boiler at ceiling level
in a narrow gap (about 30mm?) between the top of the upper wall
cupboards and the ceiling, which will be boxed in.

Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?). Will
have to pass inspection later on.

If I haven't got room then I know I could go wireless, but would rather
not have to.

Thanks
David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...


Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?).

25mm for gas, I don't know of a reg for water.

--
Mike W

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:35 +0000, VisionSet wrote:


"Lobster" wrote in message
...


Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?).

25mm for gas, I don't know of a reg for water.

BS6891-2005 (thanks Ed:-) actually says:

8.16.2 Separation of installation pipework from other services

/Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating
material/, they shall be spaced as follows: a) at least 150 mm away from
electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical
switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units; b) at least 25
mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

(My /emphasis/).

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:35 +0000, VisionSet wrote:


"Lobster" wrote in message
...


Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?).

25mm for gas, I don't know of a reg for water.

You must allow for the heat from the heating pipes to affect the rating of
the cable. So if you can avoid the hottest pipe(s) you would do well.





--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

On 2006-10-02 19:46:53 +0100, John Stumbles said:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:35 +0000, VisionSet wrote:


"Lobster" wrote in message
...


Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?).

25mm for gas, I don't know of a reg for water.

BS6891-2005 (thanks Ed:-) actually says:

8.16.2 Separation of installation pipework from other services

/Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating
material/, they shall be spaced as follows: a) at least 150 mm away from
electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical
switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units; b) at least 25
mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

(My /emphasis/).

So no suggestion of sensitivity of cables to heat?

I'm not sure that I've seen anything specific on this in BS7671 either.

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:35 +0000, VisionSet wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?).
25mm for gas, I don't know of a reg for water.

You must allow for the heat from the heating pipes to affect the rating of
the cable. So if you can avoid the hottest pipe(s) you would do well.

Great, thanks all. So - no reason why it can't butt up against the cold
water pipe feeding the boiler then?

(What would consitute the "electrical insulating material" regs-wise,
which John mentioned?)

Thanks
David

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:56:01 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

So no suggestion of sensitivity of cables to heat?

Well you wouldn't expect that in BS6891 since if gas pipes are getting hot
their effect on nearby electrics are probably some way down your list of
concerns:-)

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
On 2006-10-02 19:46:53 +0100, John Stumbles said:

8.16.2 Separation of installation pipework from other services

/Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating
material/, they shall be spaced as follows: a) at least 150 mm away from
electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical
switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units; b) at least 25
mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

(My /emphasis/).

Such as the cable sheath?

So no suggestion of sensitivity of cables to heat?

I'm not sure that I've seen anything specific on this in BS7671 either.

Depends on the cable. 70C max for standard T&E. Since boilers can
typically go up to 85C, you will need to use higher temperature
cable in this circumstance.

--
Andrew Gabriel

The message
from John Stumbles contains these words:

8.16.2 Separation of installation pipework from other services

/Where installation pipes are not separated by electrical insulating
material/, they shall be spaced as follows: a) at least 150 mm away from
electricity meters and associated excess current controls, electrical
switches or sockets, distribution boards or consumer units; b) at least 25
mm away from electricity supply and distribution cables.

You may have me worried. Since fitting a wider consumer unit my main
cold water feed (22mm copper) is only about 1.75" from the closest
corner. Does the plastic consumer unit box satisfy the bit about
"separated by electrical insulating material" or do I have to reroute
the cold water? It is more than 25 mm away from the nearest wire and as
it's cold water there is no question about excess heat.

--
Roger Chapman

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:42:35 +0000, VisionSet wrote:

"Lobster" wrote in message
...

Unfortunately for various reasons the wiring has gone slightly awry in
that at a late stage I need to add a new 3C&E (mains) cable to provide
for a room stat, and this really needs to be run in the same gap - which
is now full of pipes! How close can the cable be regs-wise to the
pipes (presuambly it doesn't matter which, as in gas/water/CH?).
25mm for gas, I don't know of a reg for water.

You must allow for the heat from the heating pipes to affect the rating of
the cable. So if you can avoid the hottest pipe(s) you would do well.





I have 2 ring circuit cables running within the 150mm channel below the
ceiling. Is it acceptable to run the cables behind dry
lining/plasterboard and have the pipes mounted on top of the
plasterboard? Would the cables need further protection? The cables
would be running at 90degrees (as in angle, not temperature ) to the
pipes only for the width of the pipes (~100mm)

Roger wrote:

You may have me worried. Since fitting a wider consumer unit my main
cold water feed (22mm copper) is only about 1.75" from the closest
corner. Does the plastic consumer unit box satisfy the bit about
"separated by electrical insulating material" or do I have to reroute
the cold water? It is more than 25 mm away from the nearest wire and as
it's cold water there is no question about excess heat.

BS 6891 is only concerned with gas installation pipes, not water.

--
Andy