is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar to a
shower pump for the whole house?

There are a couple of points that you might like to consider:

1. I do not believe that you are allowed to suck water from the mains -
after all that might result in air being drawn into other people's taps.
2. Low flow rate isn't necessarily associated with low water pressure. If
you have a long feed between the stopcock and your house that is small bore
and perhaps furred up then the pressure might be good but the flow will be
limited.

Southern Water will do a free check of the water pressure at the stopcock
and at your kitchen sink. Possibly your water board will do the same. I
think that they are obliged to ensure that the pressure is good at the
stopcock but they are not responsible for the pipe between there and your
house.

If you decide on implementing the header tank/pump scheme, I would suggest
that you do go for a shower pump. They have integral switches that detect a
small flow (resulting from the header tank) when you turn a tap on. This
small flow activates the pump. You can also get double pumps, of course, so
you could pressurise the hot as well as the cold system. Using one of these
pumps would also protect you from the possibility of damage when/if the
header tank empties. If this should happen the flow would cease and so the
pump would switch itself off and therefore protect itself.

Mike.

"Clive" wrote in message
...
is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar to
a
shower pump for the whole house?








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select a pump
with a compressor type impeller rather than just a paddle pattern, as this
will prevent any sudden pressure loss in the system by back flow when a tap
is turned off and the switching deactivates the pump.

I was thinking to do something like this - can you tell us how we can
distinguish between the two?

Is is possible (or logical) to use a pump from a combi or similar
(central heating circulation pump) - the shower pumps are a bit
expensive for me (and not available here, AFAIK)

Also an idea for a low-cost pressure switch - I used an oil pressure
switch as used in a car engine sump, the only problem is to keep it
dry by placing it on the top of a closed vertical pipe, otherwise it
rusts impressively! (and run it from 12 volt otherwise you risk
shorting out the supply to earth) maybe not such a good idea after all
- flames expected!!!)

is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar to
a shower pump for the whole house?

Exactly like a shower pump for the whole house, in fact. You may wish to
distinguish between outlets, however. The pump is noisy, which isn't a
problem with a shower or bath, but might wake people up if the turning on a
basin tap or the washing machine rinsing at night turns on the pump.

Christian.

In uk.d-i-y, Clive wrote:
is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar to a
shower pump for the whole house?

Yes, see http://www.bathstore.com/pumps.asp, especially "Whole house
pumps".


ObGripe: The company's called "bathstore.com" but if you put that into
your browser, you get "Page not found". To get to their site you need to
put "www.bathstore.com". Doesn't give you much faith, does it?

--
Mike Barnes

"John" wrote in message
...

Southern Water will do a free check of the water pressure at the
stopcock
and at your kitchen sink. Possibly your water board will do the same. I
think that they are obliged to ensure that the pressure is good at the
stopcock but they are not responsible for the pipe between there and
your
house.

Im thinking (back to A level physics) but not getting anywhere. Can anyone
help/

Water pressure is not the same as water flow.

i.e I could get 25ltrs a min at a very low pressure, or 1 ltr a min at
very
high pressure

If the incoming water pipe is at say 15mm an at 3 bar, and the stopcock is
partially closed the the amount of water from the tap will be reduced,
from
what I remember however the pressure will remain constant, even if the
stopcock would only be fractionally open when there is no demand for
water.

If, say the kitchen tap is fully opened (and all pipework in the house
except for the supply pipe) were 22mm then the pressure on the tap may
fall
(i.e the water flow aceheiveable from the 15mm pipe will have a larger
capacity pipe, so will reduce in pressure to compensate) - if the tap is
slighly open - i.e reducing the flow rate to below that acheiveable from
the
supply - then pressure will be the same?

Am I right?



The pressure will remain the same in any pipe connected to the supply set at
3bar and the only thing that will change is the flow rate. The only thing
to happen when you increase the pipe diameter, is that the water takes
longer to flow through it in accordance with the increase in volume of the
pipe and would seem as though you had a reduction in the pressure, but in
actual fact the water is still being supplied at 3bar.

"Benjamin Aldred" wrote in message
...

"Clive" wrote in message
...
is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar
to
a
shower pump for the whole house?



If your system is tank fed Clive, then yes it is possible to supply a pump
from the cold water outlet of it. The only thing about doing this, is
that
you'll need a switching device to energise the pump only when you are
demanding water from the tank, because a pump running continually would
soon
burn out if it doesn't have a water to dissipate a bit of the heat away.

It is not advisable to try and supply a pump with water directly from your
mains water supply, as this will not be possible to differentiate an
effective pressure coefficient between the supply inlet and the pump
outlet
without some kind of restriction valve(s) which is kind of defeating the
purpose of the pump.

If you are thinking of going down this road, then I'd also advise you to
make sure the tank is appropriately sized so as not to run dry due to the
increase in draw off by the pump demand, and also that you select a pump
with a compressor type impeller rather than just a paddle pattern, as this
will prevent any sudden pressure loss in the system by back flow when a
tap
is turned off and the switching deactivates the pump.

Many hotels I maintain have installed larger tanks and pumped water
systems
to help stop people complaining about not getting a proper shower at high
demand times when everyone else is taking a shower. The principle is
feasible, but it can be expensive on the initial outlay for the proper
equipment.

tank = cold water tank.
cylinder = hot water cylinder.


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Mike Barnes wrote:

In uk.d-i-y, Clive wrote:

is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar to a
shower pump for the whole house?


Yes, see http://www.bathstore.com/pumps.asp, especially "Whole house
pumps".


ObGripe: The company's called "bathstore.com" but if you put that into
your browser, you get "Page not found". To get to their site you need to
put "www.bathstore.com". Doesn't give you much faith, does it?



(i) flow ios a funcion of pressure and bore, the more of either, the
bigger the flow.

(ii) adding a pumpo will work UP TO A PO*INT.

(iii) THAT POINT is when the flow hrough teh mains supply frim teh water
company exceeds the pressure with which they sup[ply it, and teh dameter
of their pipe.

Or to put it another way, their supply is at a certain pressure, and
just e.. taking teh tap off teh mains supply and letting it gush is
*almost* as fast a flow rate as you can get. Addoung a pump can lower
the pressure at your end of the pipe to (almost) 0, from 1 bar. but not
any more.

So if the water mains can't do the flow rate, no amount of pumping is
going to help on the suction side of the pipe. You need a pump at the
water companies pumping station :-) Or a bigger pipe from them.

To put it another way. A pump can remedy deficencies in YOUR plumbing,
but not the water companies...or only a bit anyway.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Benjamin Aldred" wrote in message
...

"Clive" wrote in message
...
is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow? similar
to
a
shower pump for the whole house?



If your system is tank fed Clive, then yes it is possible to supply a
pump
from the cold water outlet of it. The only thing about doing this, is
that
you'll need a switching device to energise the pump only when you are
demanding water from the tank, because a pump running continually would
soon
burn out if it doesn't have a water to dissipate a bit of the heat away.

It is not advisable to try and supply a pump with water directly from
your
mains water supply, as this will not be possible to differentiate an
effective pressure coefficient between the supply inlet and the pump
outlet
without some kind of restriction valve(s) which is kind of defeating the
purpose of the pump.

If you are thinking of going down this road, then I'd also advise you to
make sure the tank is appropriately sized so as not to run dry due to
the
increase in draw off by the pump demand, and also that you select a pump
with a compressor type impeller rather than just a paddle pattern, as
this
will prevent any sudden pressure loss in the system by back flow when a
tap
is turned off and the switching deactivates the pump.

Many hotels I maintain have installed larger tanks and pumped water
systems
to help stop people complaining about not getting a proper shower at
high
demand times when everyone else is taking a shower. The principle is
feasible, but it can be expensive on the initial outlay for the proper
equipment.

tank = cold water tank.
cylinder = hot water cylinder.



http://www.hartons.co.uk/gifs/tanks1.gif

bottom of page:

http://www.hartons.co.uk/accs.html


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"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Benjamin Aldred" wrote in message
...

"Clive" wrote in message
...
is it possible to add a pump to increase waterpressure & flow?
similar
to
a
shower pump for the whole house?



If your system is tank fed Clive, then yes it is possible to supply a
pump
from the cold water outlet of it. The only thing about doing this, is
that
you'll need a switching device to energise the pump only when you are
demanding water from the tank, because a pump running continually
would
soon
burn out if it doesn't have a water to dissipate a bit of the heat
away.

It is not advisable to try and supply a pump with water directly from
your
mains water supply, as this will not be possible to differentiate an
effective pressure coefficient between the supply inlet and the pump
outlet
without some kind of restriction valve(s) which is kind of defeating
the
purpose of the pump.

If you are thinking of going down this road, then I'd also advise you
to
make sure the tank is appropriately sized so as not to run dry due to
the
increase in draw off by the pump demand, and also that you select a
pump
with a compressor type impeller rather than just a paddle pattern, as
this
will prevent any sudden pressure loss in the system by back flow when
a
tap
is turned off and the switching deactivates the pump.

Many hotels I maintain have installed larger tanks and pumped water
systems
to help stop people complaining about not getting a proper shower at
high
demand times when everyone else is taking a shower. The principle is
feasible, but it can be expensive on the initial outlay for the proper
equipment.

tank = cold water tank.
cylinder = hot water cylinder.



http://www.hartons.co.uk/gifs/tanks1.gif

bottom of page:

http://www.hartons.co.uk/accs.html

If a hot water vessel is square it is then a "tank". The domestic
terminology convention is what I wrote above, otherwise you may confuse.
Also when going to trade places it is best to know the terminology,
otherwise they smell a total amateur.


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Addoung a pump can lower the pressure at your end of the pipe to (almost)
0, from 1 bar. but not any more.

Well it can go below zero (assuming we are relative to atmospheric pressure,
not absolute zero). The problem is that negative pressure means that the
company's leaky pipes start leaking in the other direction, so you get the
earthy skank in the fresh water, rather than fresh water in the earthy
skank. This is why you are not allowed to pump a mains supply.

Christian.

The pressure will remain the same in any pipe connected to the supply set
at
3bar and the only thing that will change is the flow rate. The only thing
to happen when you increase the pipe diameter, is that the water takes
longer to flow through it in accordance with the increase in volume of the
pipe and would seem as though you had a reduction in the pressure, but in
actual fact the water is still being supplied at 3bar.

Thanks what I meant - but didnt explain very well.

Thanks

Christian McArdle wrote:

Addoung a pump can lower the pressure at your end of the pipe to (almost)
0, from 1 bar. but not any more.


Well it can go below zero (assuming we are relative to atmospheric pressure,


We are not.


not absolute zero). The problem is that negative pressure means that the
company's leaky pipes start leaking in the other direction, so you get the
earthy skank in the fresh water, rather than fresh water in the earthy
skank. This is why you are not allowed to pump a mains supply.


I didn't know you weren't, but it ceertainly makes sense.

My real point was to show that there is a limit to how fast you can
deliver water from a mains supply - and tanks will ultimately empty if
pumped faster than replenished. Even IMM should be able to figure that
one out.



Christian.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:

Addoung a pump can lower the pressure at your end of the pipe to
(almost)
0, from 1 bar. but not any more.


Well it can go below zero (assuming we are relative to atmospheric
pressure,


We are not.

not absolute zero). The problem is that negative pressure means that the
company's leaky pipes start leaking in the other direction, so you get
the
earthy skank in the fresh water, rather than fresh water in the earthy
skank. This is why you are not allowed to pump a mains supply.


I didn't know you weren't, but it ceertainly makes sense.

My real point was to show that there is a limit to how fast you can
deliver water from a mains supply - and tanks will ultimately empty if
pumped faster than replenished. Even IMM should be able to figure that
one out.

Amazing! From someone who didn't know why you can't pump the mains.


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