Hi All,

I would be interested to get your opinions on this;

We are thinking of adding a utility room to our house
by using an area at the back of our garage. This
area sits directly behind the rear kitchen wall.

The idea would be that we would build either a stud
or cement block wall enclosing the area (just 2 walls
spanning a corner). A doorway would then need to
be added into the rear kitchen wall as an entrance
to the new utility room.

We are probably going to get some quotes from
builders in the near future for the cost of the job.
I do have two general questions.
Which is the preferred wall material, stud or cement?
How difficult is it to put a doorway in a load bearing wall?
Any idea what sort of cost for just the doorway and the walls?

Thanks for any opinions,
Matthew

Matthew wrote:
Hi All,

I would be interested to get your opinions on this;

We are thinking of adding a utility room to our house
by using an area at the back of our garage. This
area sits directly behind the rear kitchen wall.

The idea would be that we would build either a stud
or cement block wall enclosing the area (just 2 walls
spanning a corner). A doorway would then need to
be added into the rear kitchen wall as an entrance
to the new utility room.

We are probably going to get some quotes from
builders in the near future for the cost of the job.
I do have two general questions.
Which is the preferred wall material, stud or cement?
How difficult is it to put a doorway in a load bearing wall?
Any idea what sort of cost for just the doorway and the walls?

Thanks for any opinions,
Matthew

There are a few questions first:
1) do you mean you intend knocking through from the garage into the kitchen?
2) what do you men by load bearing walls? - what sits on the wall between
garage and kitchen now?

there is no problem knocking a doorway through, providing a proper lintel is
used above.
There may be a problem WRT fireproofing the utility/kitchen area from the
garage, studding may require two thicknesses of 30min fireboard on each side
and also a firedoor from the utility into the kitchen, depending on the
price of fireboard, it may be cheaper to do it in blocks.

"Matthew" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All,

I would be interested to get your opinions on this;

We are thinking of adding a utility room to our house
by using an area at the back of our garage. This
area sits directly behind the rear kitchen wall.

The idea would be that we would build either a stud
or cement block wall enclosing the area (just 2 walls
spanning a corner). A doorway would then need to
be added into the rear kitchen wall as an entrance
to the new utility room.

We are probably going to get some quotes from
builders in the near future for the cost of the job.
I do have two general questions.
Which is the preferred wall material, stud or cement?
How difficult is it to put a doorway in a load bearing wall?
Any idea what sort of cost for just the doorway and the walls?

Thanks for any opinions,
Matthew


Matthew, before you start talking to builders about prices or about what
materials to use, it's important to find out if you need Planning Permission
and whether there might be any problems with that. You will also certainly
need Building Regulations approval, and to do that you'll need to get plans
drawn up. You can discuss the project with builders and get two or three
lined up ready, but if you get prices from them before the work has been
properly designed, each builder will quote for something different and you
won't know which one to choose. Also, if they quoted you before you get
Building Regulations it is absolutely certain they will find something
they'll claim they didn't include for and charge you extra.

You'll find lots of helpful leaflets at the Planning Desk at your council
offices.

To give you some idea of cost before you step off, as a rule of thumb you
can work out the rough cost of the extension by calculating the plan area
(outside measurements) in square feet and multiplying by £100 (might be a
bit cheaper where you are). Then add VAT. Forming the new door opening is
not a major job as long as there's a bit of solid wall each side to support
the ends of the new lintel. Allow about £800 + VAT for a simple job.

Peter

Phil L wrote:


There are a few questions first:
1) do you mean you intend knocking through from the garage into the kitchen?

Yes thats the intended plan.

2) what do you mean by load bearing walls? - what sits on the wall between
garage and kitchen now?

The front wall of the house

there is no problem knocking a doorway through, providing a proper lintel is
used above.
There may be a problem WRT fireproofing the utility/kitchen area from the
garage, studding may require two thicknesses of 30min fireboard on each side
and also a firedoor from the utility into the kitchen, depending on the
price of fireboard, it may be cheaper to do it in blocks.

Yes I did wonder about fireproofing which is why I thought cement was
better...

Hi Peter,

I wasnt sure about planning permission will find out
if its necessary. A builder is coming to have a look
for us tonight so I can quiz him on that aspect.
Useful figures thanks.
My main concern was that if a hole was knocked in
the wall for a door the wall would collapse!

Matthew

"Matthew" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Peter,

I wasnt sure about planning permission will find out
if its necessary. A builder is coming to have a look
for us tonight so I can quiz him on that aspect.
Useful figures thanks.
My main concern was that if a hole was knocked in
the wall for a door the wall would collapse!

Matthew


Take a 'look' at your wall . Each brick is supporting the one above it....
[A bond should ensure that one brick is supporting the two above it ... but
never mind].
If you remove a door size clump of bricks then the bricks above the opening
'would collapse' UNLESS they're supported. That's why people have said ;
'Install a lintel'.
In this case a lintel is a beam extending wider than the aperture for the
door onto which the bricks _above_ are given support ... the lintel
transfers the load onto the bricks either side of the door opening. it's not
exactly rocket science - but you'll need a structural engineer to guarantee
that the lintel is specified correctly for the loads and that there's a
sufficient load-resistant path to the foundations. The builders will need to
support the weight of the wall _while_ the opening is made and until the
lintels are installed to absorb the weight.

--

Brian

Matthew wrote:
Hi Peter,

I wasnt sure about planning permission will find out
if its necessary. A builder is coming to have a look
for us tonight so I can quiz him on that aspect.
Useful figures thanks.
My main concern was that if a hole was knocked in
the wall for a door the wall would collapse!

Matthew

Some builders will tell you that you don't need planning (or even
building regs) when in fact you do.
The usual practice is to support the wall above with big jacks while
the doorway is knocked out although some people don't bother.

Sorry for the confusion.
I wasnt very clear in my mail.
I understand the need for a lintel etc.

My issue is how do they knock a hole
whilst trying to support the wall?
Surely for a period of time just before
the lintel goes in the wall is unsupported....

Matthew

wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Hi Peter,

I wasnt sure about planning permission will find out
if its necessary. A builder is coming to have a look
for us tonight so I can quiz him on that aspect.
Useful figures thanks.
My main concern was that if a hole was knocked in
the wall for a door the wall would collapse!

Matthew

Some builders will tell you that you don't need planning (or even
building regs) when in fact you do.

In fact you often do *not* need planning permission for a garage
conversion. it depends upon your permitted development rights and
whether you have already used them.

MBQ

Matthew wrote:
Sorry for the confusion.
I wasnt very clear in my mail.
I understand the need for a lintel etc.

My issue is how do they knock a hole
whilst trying to support the wall?
Surely for a period of time just before
the lintel goes in the wall is unsupported....

Matthew

They put in "needles" which are horizontal beams through the wall above
where
the hole is to be made, and support them on "acros", which are steel
props that can
be raised on lowered. They can then fit the lintel and remove the
bricks below.
After this is done, the props and needles can be removed.
Simon.

Peter Taylor wrote:
"Matthew" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All,

I would be interested to get your opinions on this;

We are thinking of adding a utility room to our house
by using an area at the back of our garage. This
area sits directly behind the rear kitchen wall.

The idea would be that we would build either a stud
or cement block wall enclosing the area (just 2 walls
spanning a corner). A doorway would then need to
be added into the rear kitchen wall as an entrance
to the new utility room.

We are probably going to get some quotes from
builders in the near future for the cost of the job.
I do have two general questions.
Which is the preferred wall material, stud or cement?
How difficult is it to put a doorway in a load bearing wall?
Any idea what sort of cost for just the doorway and the walls?

Thanks for any opinions,
Matthew


Matthew, before you start talking to builders about prices or about what
materials to use, it's important to find out if you need Planning Permission
and whether there might be any problems with that. You will also certainly
need Building Regulations approval, and to do that you'll need to get plans
drawn up. You can discuss the project with builders and get two or three
lined up ready, but if you get prices from them before the work has been
properly designed, each builder will quote for something different and you
won't know which one to choose. Also, if they quoted you before you get
Building Regulations it is absolutely certain they will find something
they'll claim they didn't include for and charge you extra.

You'll find lots of helpful leaflets at the Planning Desk at your council
offices.

To give you some idea of cost before you step off, as a rule of thumb you
can work out the rough cost of the extension by calculating the plan area
(outside measurements) in square feet and multiplying by £100 (might be a
bit cheaper where you are). Then add VAT. Forming the new door opening is
not a major job as long as there's a bit of solid wall each side to support
the ends of the new lintel. Allow about £800 + VAT for a simple job.

Peter

Glad I did my own two doorways into the extension !!! - couple of
holes, acroprops, peppered the door and lintel shape with 8mm holes and
got to it with the SDS on rotostop.
bobs yer uncle!! as long as you make sure the lintels have at least
150mm each side to rest on you'll be OK, lots told me beforehand no
need for supports as long ure careful but better safe than sorry and
£20 a day for renting acroprops you'd ne daft not too!!

"Staffbull" wrote in message
oups.com...

Peter Taylor wrote:
"Matthew" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All,

I would be interested to get your opinions on this;

We are thinking of adding a utility room to our house
by using an area at the back of our garage. This
area sits directly behind the rear kitchen wall.

The idea would be that we would build either a stud
or cement block wall enclosing the area (just 2 walls
spanning a corner). A doorway would then need to
be added into the rear kitchen wall as an entrance
to the new utility room.

We are probably going to get some quotes from
builders in the near future for the cost of the job.
I do have two general questions.
Which is the preferred wall material, stud or cement?
How difficult is it to put a doorway in a load bearing wall?
Any idea what sort of cost for just the doorway and the walls?

Thanks for any opinions,
Matthew


Matthew, before you start talking to builders about prices or about what
materials to use, it's important to find out if you need Planning
Permission
and whether there might be any problems with that. You will also
certainly
need Building Regulations approval, and to do that you'll need to get
plans
drawn up. You can discuss the project with builders and get two or three
lined up ready, but if you get prices from them before the work has been
properly designed, each builder will quote for something different and you
won't know which one to choose. Also, if they quoted you before you get
Building Regulations it is absolutely certain they will find something
they'll claim they didn't include for and charge you extra.

You'll find lots of helpful leaflets at the Planning Desk at your council
offices.

To give you some idea of cost before you step off, as a rule of thumb you
can work out the rough cost of the extension by calculating the plan area
(outside measurements) in square feet and multiplying by £100 (might be a
bit cheaper where you are). Then add VAT. Forming the new door opening
is
not a major job as long as there's a bit of solid wall each side to
support
the ends of the new lintel. Allow about £800 + VAT for a simple job.

Peter

Glad I did my own two doorways into the extension !!! - couple of
holes, acroprops, peppered the door and lintel shape with 8mm holes and
got to it with the SDS on rotostop.
bobs yer uncle!! as long as you make sure the lintels have at least
150mm each side to rest on you'll be OK, lots told me beforehand no
need for supports as long ure careful but better safe than sorry and
£20 a day for renting acroprops you'd ne daft not too!!

Did you fit a new door and frame, make good the floor, plaster the reveals,
do all the decorating, fit the ironmongery. The £800 included all that

Often you don't need to put in needles. You can use the Strongboy type of
Acrows which have a steel plate that goes into a brick joint.

Peter Taylor wrote:
"Staffbull" wrote in message
oups.com...

Peter Taylor wrote:
"Matthew" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi All,

I would be interested to get your opinions on this;

We are thinking of adding a utility room to our house
by using an area at the back of our garage. This
area sits directly behind the rear kitchen wall.

The idea would be that we would build either a stud
or cement block wall enclosing the area (just 2 walls
spanning a corner). A doorway would then need to
be added into the rear kitchen wall as an entrance
to the new utility room.

We are probably going to get some quotes from
builders in the near future for the cost of the job.
I do have two general questions.
Which is the preferred wall material, stud or cement?
How difficult is it to put a doorway in a load bearing wall?
Any idea what sort of cost for just the doorway and the walls?

Thanks for any opinions,
Matthew


Matthew, before you start talking to builders about prices or about what
materials to use, it's important to find out if you need Planning
Permission
and whether there might be any problems with that. You will also
certainly
need Building Regulations approval, and to do that you'll need to get
plans
drawn up. You can discuss the project with builders and get two or three
lined up ready, but if you get prices from them before the work has been
properly designed, each builder will quote for something different and you
won't know which one to choose. Also, if they quoted you before you get
Building Regulations it is absolutely certain they will find something
they'll claim they didn't include for and charge you extra.

You'll find lots of helpful leaflets at the Planning Desk at your council
offices.

To give you some idea of cost before you step off, as a rule of thumb you
can work out the rough cost of the extension by calculating the plan area
(outside measurements) in square feet and multiplying by £100 (might be a
bit cheaper where you are). Then add VAT. Forming the new door opening
is
not a major job as long as there's a bit of solid wall each side to
support
the ends of the new lintel. Allow about £800 + VAT for a simple job.

Peter

Glad I did my own two doorways into the extension !!! - couple of
holes, acroprops, peppered the door and lintel shape with 8mm holes and
got to it with the SDS on rotostop.
bobs yer uncle!! as long as you make sure the lintels have at least
150mm each side to rest on you'll be OK, lots told me beforehand no
need for supports as long ure careful but better safe than sorry and
£20 a day for renting acroprops you'd ne daft not too!!

Did you fit a new door and frame, make good the floor, plaster the reveals,
do all the decorating, fit the ironmongery. The £800 included all that

Often you don't need to put in needles. You can use the Strongboy type of
Acrows which have a steel plate that goes into a brick joint.

yes did all of the above, fitting the doors were a doddle, used a door
casement set ready rebated for the door, just fit it square and level
n' hang the door!! good old electric plane! 22mm flat bit and decent
stanley chisel for fitting the ironmongery job done :-)
had practice with hanging doors when I replaced 9 through the house
some years ago

Hi All,

The builder turned up last night to give us a quote
for the utility room.
He said the job would take about 2-3 weeks be built
out of two cement block walls (4m x 2m) in the corner
of the garage. A doorway and lintel would be put in the
back kitchen wall. A concrete raft added to the garage
floor to bring it level with the kitchen floor (approx 6").
Cost would be about £3K to £3.5K. This is our first
quote Ill probably get another two for comparison.
Having no idea really of the cost of a job like this,
does it sound reasonable?

Thanks,
Matthew

Matthew wrote:
Hi All,

The builder turned up last night to give us a quote
for the utility room.
He said the job would take about 2-3 weeks be built
out of two cement block walls (4m x 2m) in the corner
of the garage. A doorway and lintel would be put in the
back kitchen wall. A concrete raft added to the garage
floor to bring it level with the kitchen floor (approx 6").
Cost would be about £3K to £3.5K. This is our first
quote Ill probably get another two for comparison.
Having no idea really of the cost of a job like this,
does it sound reasonable?

Thanks,
Matthew

Whatever you do, write up a contract with a service level agreement.
Write everything down than needs doing and penalise for delays.
Builders' "2-3 weeks" often turn into 2-3 months with actual work being
2-3 days.

Sounds a lot to me but then most building work always does.

PS I think you mean concrete not cement.

Yes sorry I meant concrete!

I thought it was expensive.
However if it is 2 weeks work then
that would be say £200 a day plus
1K for materials, maybe its not too bad.
Lets face it I cant get a tradesman in
berkshire for less than £200 a day.
Not sure what to do really.....
Probably get some more quotes.....

Matthew wrote:
Yes sorry I meant concrete!

I thought it was expensive.
However if it is 2 weeks work then
that would be say £200 a day plus
1K for materials, maybe its not too bad.
Lets face it I cant get a tradesman in
berkshire for less than £200 a day.
Not sure what to do really.....
Probably get some more quotes.....

Would the quote get more reasoanble the longer they tell you it'll take
to do? Personally I don't understand why it should take any more than
a week. ...of actual work, whether that's spread over 2-3 weeks or
not.

If you draw up a detailed list of what needs doing then it's easier to
associate the amount of time needed.

....but it's supply and demand. If you want it you have to pay for it
or do it yourself.

Matthew wrote:
Hi All,

The builder turned up last night to give us a quote
for the utility room.
He said the job would take about 2-3 weeks be built
out of two cement block walls (4m x 2m) in the corner
of the garage. A doorway and lintel would be put in the
back kitchen wall. A concrete raft added to the garage
floor to bring it level with the kitchen floor (approx 6").
Cost would be about £3K to £3.5K. This is our first
quote Ill probably get another two for comparison.
Having no idea really of the cost of a job like this,
does it sound reasonable?

Thanks,
Matthew

No, it's bordering on being extortionate.
The walls can easily be built in one day by one man, even if he's labouring
on himself..he's only putting up 6m of block walls, lets say 2.5m high,
meaning it's 15m2...that'll be 150 blocks @ 80p per block = £120 for blocks,
say £30 for sand/cement, a roll of DPC and some screw-in ties = £150

Floor is 1m3 of concrete @ £120 per m3, + visqueen = £130

Lintel is about £60, plus sand/cement, bits and peices = £180

Plaster and lights/electricals, door frame and door = £300

Grand total is about £760 and this is top prices..even if you call it a
grand, he's still charging you 2.5k for labour, there is less than a week's
work for two men:
Day one: knock out doorway and insert lintel and make good brickwork, take
delivery of blocks and everything else and get them round to work area.
Day two: Build block wall and get floor ready for concrete (one man), other
man gets cables in place for sockets, puts in boxes for lights etc
Day three: lay concrete floor (two hours work) go home before dinnertime.
Day four: dryline and skim walls, ceiling will probably not need anything
doing assuming ceiling already in garage
Day five : second fix electricals, clean site, affix door and frame, do any
small bits and pieces, home before dinner (again)


He's charging you over £400 per day per man.

Phil L wrote:
He's charging you over £400 per day per man.

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the info.
The breakdown of cost is very useful...
I thought it was expensive and would at the most
be about 7 days work.
The problem is I suppose finding a builder in the
local area that isnt charging a fortune!

Do you know any good builders in the Reading area?

Matt

Matthew wrote:
Phil L wrote:
He's charging you over £400 per day per man.

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the info.
The breakdown of cost is very useful...
I thought it was expensive and would at the most
be about 7 days work.
The problem is I suppose finding a builder in the
local area that isnt charging a fortune!

Do you know any good builders in the Reading area?

Matt

Unfortunately no...you could try asking work colleagues if they know anyone
relaible and reasonably priced...'word of mouth' accounts for about 70% of
my work.