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OT. New online postage stamps?
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OT. New online postage stamps?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm someone on BBC business lunch today asked, what happens if your printer screws up and tears up the envelope. They say there's a fix for this. john2 |
OT. New online postage stamps?
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Well, it is and it isn't - we, and quite a few others, have been doing online barcode generation for discount vouchers, gift vouchers etc. for a good few years now. Several of the parcel service companies have also been using it. So the technology is not at all new, the only new thing is applying it to Royal Mail post. -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
john2 wrote:
someone on BBC business lunch today asked, what happens if your printer screws up and tears up the envelope. They say there's a fix for this. You put a new envelope in and print it again? -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
In message , at 14:01:34 on
Tue, 19 Sep 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked: I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Isn't this the same system that man businesses already use? I don't quite follow to reference to eBay, as many eBay items won't fit in a postbox, and some sort of proof of posting is often useful. And especially with the new rules (and dodgy kitchen scales) I'd normally want to visit the Post Office anyway to get an item priced. In the USA they have a better system: a set of scales in an open area at the Post Office so you don't have to join the main queue, and a vending machine with many different denominations of stamp in it. Of course, you then need a "fast drop" scheme if the resulting item doesn't fit a Postbox. -- Roland Perry |
OT. New online postage stamps?
I don't quite follow to reference to eBay, as many eBay items won't fit in
a postbox, and some sort of proof of posting is often useful. And especially with the new rules (and dodgy kitchen scales) I'd normally want to visit the Post Office anyway to get an item priced. However, if you had an eBay business selling large numbers of small items, it could be very useful. Christian. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Grunff wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Well, it is and it isn't - we, and quite a few others, have been doing online barcode generation for discount vouchers, gift vouchers etc. for a good few years now. Several of the parcel service companies have also been using it. So the technology is not at all new, the only new thing is applying it to Royal Mail post. And even that's not new. They've been doing "Smart Stamps" for a while. MBQ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Roland Perry wrote: In the USA they have a better system: a set of scales in an open area at the Post Office They do in all the POs I've been into in the UK, on the public side of the counter. I've never had a problem going up and weighing things and then joining the back of the queue if I determine I haven't got the correct stamps. MBQ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
wrote: So the technology is not at all new, the only new thing is applying it to Royal Mail post. And even that's not new. They've been doing "Smart Stamps" for a while. MBQ I looked into it but it was a subcription service. I haven't looked yet but the news makes it sound like the service itself is free. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
The message
from Grunff contains these words: someone on BBC business lunch today asked, what happens if your printer screws up and tears up the envelope. They say there's a fix for this. You put a new envelope in and print it again? Seems reasonable. After all, the whole point of using unique barcodes is so you can't reproduce them fraudulently. Printing it again should be easy. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Guy King wrote:
Seems reasonable. After all, the whole point of using unique barcodes is so you can't reproduce them fraudulently. Printing it again should be easy. With it being browser based, you can print it as many times as you like. The anti-fraud system will have to kick in when two identically-coded packages are scanned through the system. -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Except noone can post things to me because it doesn't recognise our new (CB25) postcode. Grr! Tony |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:24:27 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:01:34 on Tue, 19 Sep 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked: I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Isn't this the same system that man businesses already use? Presumably the RM save a bundle on printing and distribution costs, whilst collectively the consumers pay for the ink / printer wear. BBC website doesn't say that the stamps are any cheaper to account for this - anyone know? especially with the new rules (and dodgy kitchen scales) I'd normally want to visit the Post Office anyway to get an item priced. I went into the PO recently for that very reason and the person behind the counter drooled for a bit whilst they figured out why someone would want to weigh but not send an item... Have since found some proper letter-pricing scales that were being thrown out (presumably because the recent changes in the pricing system made them useless) so the dodgy kitchen scales can go back in the cupboard. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
In message , at 14:39:00 on
Tue, 19 Sep 2006, Christian McArdle remarked: I don't quite follow to reference to eBay, as many eBay items won't fit in a postbox, and some sort of proof of posting is often useful. And especially with the new rules (and dodgy kitchen scales) I'd normally want to visit the Post Office anyway to get an item priced. However, if you had an eBay business selling large numbers of small items, it could be very useful. How difficult is it to buy a book of 100 First Class Stamps (if what you are selling is small items)? Much easier (and cheaper) than printing lots of these new thingys onto [presumably] label paper then peeling them off and putting them on the item. -- Roland Perry |
OT. New online postage stamps?
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OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:39:30 +0000, Jules put finger to keyboard and
typed: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:24:27 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 14:01:34 on Tue, 19 Sep 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked: I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Isn't this the same system that man businesses already use? Presumably the RM save a bundle on printing and distribution costs, whilst collectively the consumers pay for the ink / printer wear. BBC website doesn't say that the stamps are any cheaper to account for this - anyone know? They're the same price as ordinary stamps. The process of buying them looks a bit convoluted - you need to enter the recipient address when purchasing, which then forms part of the label that you print. There's no explanation on the site as to why this is necessary, or what happens if you cut that bit off and use the printed stamp part on an envelope which already has a (different) address label. This also means that you can only print off one at a time, which is likely to be a pain if you've got more than one item to send. Also, they have to be used before the end of the day after they're printed (eg, any printed today have to be posted by the end of tommorrow), so you can't store them up for later use. I can understand why this is the case (it stops people hoarding postage just before a price increase, and presumably they also have the posting date encoded into them so that the PO can know how long the package has been sitting in their system without needing to frank them first), but it adds to the general hassle. I can see this system being handy for the occasional unusual item, or for people who regularly send small packages by post and have the facility to weigh them accurately at home (such as regular eBay sellers), but I can't see any benefits over simply buying a book of stamps for ordinary letters. Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison wrote:
I suspect that it will involve some sort of Java applet that will only print what it is allowed to, the browser's direct printing ability will have to be suspended for this to work. No, just tried it - it generates a pdf which you can print as many times as you like. -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison wrote:
[Post Office online postage purchase] I suspect that it will involve some sort of Java applet that will only print what it is allowed to, the browser's direct printing ability will have to be suspended for this to work. It generates a PDF for you to print. -- Selah |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:08:21 +0100, Grunff put finger to keyboard and
typed: Brian Morrison wrote: I suspect that it will involve some sort of Java applet that will only print what it is allowed to, the browser's direct printing ability will have to be suspended for this to work. No, just tried it - it generates a pdf which you can print as many times as you like. Does it have any kind of "memory"? That is, can you log in again tomorrow and ask it to print another label to the same address as last time? Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
In message e.net, at
16:06:30 on Tue, 19 Sep 2006, Mark Goodge remarked: you need to enter the recipient address when purchasing, which then forms part of the label that you print. There's no explanation on the site as to why this is necessary, Does the barcode include the destination address, for use in automatic sorting machinery? -- Roland Perry |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Mark Goodge wrote:
Does it have any kind of "memory"? That is, can you log in again tomorrow and ask it to print another label to the same address as last time? I've just logged back in, and no, it doesn't keep a record of previous send addresses. -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison wrote:
Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? I doubt it - I suspect the second (and subsequent) letters bearing the same stamp will simply count as unstamped, and the recipient will be asked to pay. -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison wrote on 19/09/2006 16:27
Grunff wrote: Brian Morrison wrote: I suspect that it will involve some sort of Java applet that will only print what it is allowed to, the browser's direct printing ability will have to be suspended for this to work. No, just tried it - it generates a pdf which you can print as many times as you like. Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? A bloke on "Today" implied that they'd consider the postage to have been not paid on packages whose stamp barcode has previously been scanned. S. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
... Simon Morris wrote: Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? A bloke on "Today" implied that they'd consider the postage to have been not paid on packages whose stamp barcode has previously been scanned. So they've designed a broken system and then dropped the broken pieces on the general public. I can't see how this is any better than a book of stamps. Not smart :( Eh? It's the only way this sort of thing can sensibly be done. Or do you have a better idea? clive |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:34:48 +0100, Grunff wrote:
Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? I doubt it - I suspect the second (and subsequent) letters bearing the same stamp will simply count as unstamped, and the recipient will be asked to pay. I tried it as a test earlier. I've been charged for 4 X 32p stamps when I only wanted 1. I only printed once although I looked at the pdf a few times before printing - guess this is the reason. I've requested a refund but it had to be for the full amount (£1.28) although I did want the 1 stamp - guess I'd better not post it now :-) Also I had to select one of their reasons why I wanted a refund, none of which was my reason :-( -- Regards, Hugh Jampton |
OT. New online postage stamps?
So they've designed a broken system and then dropped the broken pieces
on the general public. I can't see how this is any better than a book of stamps. Very simple. I can never find a book of stamps. I can pretty much always find a computer and printer. No need to go shopping or rummaging through old drawers in a desperate attempt to find some. Christian. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:19:26 +0100, Roland Perry put finger to
keyboard and typed: In message e.net, at 16:06:30 on Tue, 19 Sep 2006, Mark Goodge remarked: you need to enter the recipient address when purchasing, which then forms part of the label that you print. There's no explanation on the site as to why this is necessary, Does the barcode include the destination address, for use in automatic sorting machinery? I don't know - that's the question I was hoping that the FAQ section would answer, but it doesn't! You can use the offline "SmartStamp" system to print stamps without addresses, and this looks as if it's just a cut-down version of SmartStamps, so I'd be surprised if it is encoded into it. I suspect that it's more to do with ensuring that you pay the correct amount of postage. Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... How difficult is it to buy a book of 100 First Class Stamps (if what you are selling is small items)? It means a trip to a post office whilst same is open. This is not something I normally do. So it's quite a big deal actually. -- Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb Cambridge City Councillor |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison writes:
Grunff wrote: Brian Morrison wrote: I suspect that it will involve some sort of Java applet that will only print what it is allowed to, the browser's direct printing ability will have to be suspended for this to work. What on earth would be the point? No, just tried it - it generates a pdf which you can print as many times as you like. Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? I would hope not! Otherwise you end up subsidizing anyone smart enough to duplicate your stamp. -- http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Grunff wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Well, it is and it isn't - we, and quite a few others, have been doing online barcode generation for discount vouchers, gift vouchers etc. for a good few years now. Several of the parcel service companies have also been using it. So the technology is not at all new, the only new thing is applying it to Royal Mail post. h - definitely i didn't mean the technology was cunning, just that they can now sell stamps for **** all overhead.. |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison wrote:
To endure that printing the stamp is done from within the Java sandbox so that only one print attempt per bar-code can be made. Well, yes, but if they display it full size, you can always screen-grab it. While Java is beautiful, I have never liked Java applets. There is *always* a better, neater way of achieving the task. It seems many developers agree with me, since the use of Java applets is dropping like a stone. Exactly why I would have thought it's important not to allow multiple printing if it worked this way. But it wouldn't be fraud-proof, you'd still need duplicate checking at the scanning end. If you didn't have that, I could simply scan the printout and make as many copies as I want. Checking at the point of printing is totally pointless. -- Grunff |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:37:23 UTC, Brian Morrison
wrote: What on earth would be the point? To endure that printing the stamp is done from within the Java sandbox so that only one print attempt per bar-code can be made. An over-complex and ultimately useless solution! One can always hold the print job at the spooler, and ask it to print multiple times...so that would not be secure at all. That's why it has to be done with unique barcodes. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
OT. New online postage stamps?
Brian Morrison wrote:
Clive George wrote: "Brian Morrison" wrote in message ... Simon Morris wrote: Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? A bloke on "Today" implied that they'd consider the postage to have been not paid on packages whose stamp barcode has previously been scanned. So they've designed a broken system and then dropped the broken pieces on the general public. I can't see how this is any better than a book of stamps. Not smart :( Eh? It's the only way this sort of thing can sensibly be done. Or do you have a better idea? Yes, I can. Ensure that the same bar code cannot be printed more than once by doing the printing from inside a custom application in Java or possibly something that is downloaded and installed? And this will stop them from using a driver that prints to a file that can be repeatedly printed? Or photocopied? |
OT. New online postage stamps?
"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
... A bloke on "Today" implied that they'd consider the postage to have been not paid on packages whose stamp barcode has previously been scanned. So they've designed a broken system and then dropped the broken pieces on the general public. I can't see how this is any better than a book of stamps. Not smart :( Eh? It's the only way this sort of thing can sensibly be done. Or do you have a better idea? Yes, I can. Ensure that the same bar code cannot be printed more than once by doing the printing from inside a custom application in Java or possibly something that is downloaded and installed? It's rather easy to capture what's sent to the printer and use that to repeatedly print other copies. (eg by using a 'print to file' option - like for postscript). Ie it isn't even slightly secure enough. Hence the scanning at the RM end is the only sensible way this can be done. clive |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:38:38 +0100, Brian Morrison put finger to
keyboard and typed: Clive George wrote: "Brian Morrison" wrote in message ... Simon Morris wrote: Strange, so does this mean that if you use a stamp multiple times they will charge your account or credit card? A bloke on "Today" implied that they'd consider the postage to have been not paid on packages whose stamp barcode has previously been scanned. So they've designed a broken system and then dropped the broken pieces on the general public. I can't see how this is any better than a book of stamps. Not smart :( Eh? It's the only way this sort of thing can sensibly be done. Or do you have a better idea? Yes, I can. Ensure that the same bar code cannot be printed more than once by doing the printing from inside a custom application in Java or possibly something that is downloaded and installed? How do you stop someone photocopying it once it's been printed? And what do you do if the printer jams halfway through? The "one-scan" barcode method has been working perfectly well with the existing SmartStamp system, so there's no reason why it shouldn't work here. And franking systems create "stamps" that are copyable quite easily, and thus have to be validated in other ways. There are problems with this system, but they're more about usability as regards buying the online stamps than with concerns about multiple use. Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:41:41 +0100, Grunff put finger to keyboard and
typed: Brian Morrison wrote: To endure that printing the stamp is done from within the Java sandbox so that only one print attempt per bar-code can be made. Well, yes, but if they display it full size, you can always screen-grab it. You could also print to a virtual printer (or Postscript/PDF creator) and then reprint the captured file later. It's impossible to make it impossible to print something more than once. You can make it difficult, but if you rely on it being difficult as a method of validation then all you do is encourage people to explore ways of defeating it. Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:32:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher put finger
to keyboard and typed: Grunff wrote: The Natural Philosopher wrote: I think this is rather cunning...actually. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5358436.stm Well, it is and it isn't - we, and quite a few others, have been doing online barcode generation for discount vouchers, gift vouchers etc. for a good few years now. Several of the parcel service companies have also been using it. So the technology is not at all new, the only new thing is applying it to Royal Mail post. h - definitely i didn't mean the technology was cunning, just that they can now sell stamps for **** all overhead.. Not entirely zero overhead, since it's increasing the number of items in the system that need to have the barcode scanned and logged rather than simply franking the stamp by a mechanical process. So there is a significant IT overhead involved, although it's minimised by the fact that this is an extension of the existing SmartStamp product rather than an entirely new system. Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:51:52 +0100, Brian Morrison put finger to
keyboard and typed: Bob Eager wrote: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:37:23 UTC, Brian Morrison wrote: What on earth would be the point? To endure that printing the stamp is done from within the Java sandbox so that only one print attempt per bar-code can be made. An over-complex and ultimately useless solution! One can always hold the print job at the spooler, and ask it to print multiple times...so that would not be secure at all. That's why it has to be done with unique barcodes. Except that they're not unique if they can be printed multiple times. The barcode is unique to the purchase. Once scanned on its way through the postal system, it will generate an error if scanned in again and hence prevent re-use of the same code. Mark -- Please help a cat in need: http://www.goodge.co.uk/cat/ |
OT. New online postage stamps?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:51:52 UTC, Brian Morrison
wrote: Bob Eager wrote: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:37:23 UTC, Brian Morrison wrote: What on earth would be the point? To endure that printing the stamp is done from within the Java sandbox so that only one print attempt per bar-code can be made. An over-complex and ultimately useless solution! One can always hold the print job at the spooler, and ask it to print multiple times...so that would not be secure at all. That's why it has to be done with unique barcodes. Except that they're not unique if they can be printed multiple times. That's merely terminology. Perhaps I should have said 'use once'. The Java solution doesn't stop things being printed more than once - it is trivial to circumvent that (really trivial on my system). But, even if it were a bit more tricky, it's a whopping hole. The bar code can be printed as many times as you wish. Use it more than once and only the first letter to be franked will get through without postage due charges being raised. Seems a solid solution. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk |
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