Hi all

I am looking to replace a rad or at least re-valve it.
As it is close to the hall stat, I believe it should have fixed valves not
thermostatic.
I like to fit Pegler Terriers as they seem reasonable quality - these have a
length (from rad connection to centre of tail pipe of 48mm)

To fit these will mean increasing the distance between the tail pipes by
15mm.
This rad is ground floor and the floor is concrete.
I tried to remove the rad at the weekend, but found that (a) one of the
valves was passing significantly and (b) the rad must have been crow barred
in between the valves (I couldn't move the valves far enough to get the rad
out)

So I need a plan of action. I can drain the whole system to allow removal
of the rad complete with valves and re-valve rad OK.
But how do I generate the 15mm extra distance between tail pipe centres?
I do not like the "street elbow straight into the valve" approach.
Is it possible to put a "set" or "crank" (not sure of the correct
terminology) in a pipe to give a 15mm offset in 75mm length using bending
spring?

Any other options?


TIA

Phil

In article ,
TheScullster wrote:
To fit these will mean increasing the distance between the tail pipes by
15mm. This rad is ground floor and the floor is concrete. I tried to
remove the rad at the weekend, but found that (a) one of the valves was
passing significantly and (b) the rad must have been crow barred in
between the valves (I couldn't move the valves far enough to get the rad
out)

Remember the valve fits into a taper on the rad tail, so if the pipes are
firmly fixed as in concrete they will need springing apart. Slackening the
pipe ends of the valves would have allowed enough movement. But not of
course without draining down.

So I need a plan of action. I can drain the whole system to allow
removal of the rad complete with valves and re-valve rad OK. But how do
I generate the 15mm extra distance between tail pipe centres? I do not
like the "street elbow straight into the valve" approach. Is it possible
to put a "set" or "crank" (not sure of the correct terminology) in a
pipe to give a 15mm offset in 75mm length using bending spring?

I would think this impossible - you'd not get enough purchase, and you
need a straight end for the valve compression fitting. And of course when
you bend something in that way the top of the pipe will move downwards so
may not reach into the valve correctly.

But I'd get some tube and anneal it. Then see if you can form the
required offset with a spring. You could then fit that to the existing
pipe with a end feed straight coupler at floor level which shouldn't be
that noticeable - and neater than using elbows.

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 08:40:33 +0100, TheScullster wrote:

Hi all

I am looking to replace a rad or at least re-valve it.
As it is close to the hall stat, I believe it should have fixed valves not
thermostatic.
I like to fit Pegler Terriers as they seem reasonable quality - these have a
length (from rad connection to centre of tail pipe of 48mm)

To fit these will mean increasing the distance between the tail pipes by
15mm.
This rad is ground floor and the floor is concrete.

If the pipes are set directly in the concrete they are likely to be
corroding. This will in due course be a bigger problem than just
replacing the rad valves, but if you strain the pipes trying to
change the valves you may cause them to leak which will turn it into an
immediate problem. Still, at least you're doing this in the summer :-)


Any other options?

Longer valve tails (from BES & other good plumbers' merchants) or DIY with
chromed 1/2" BSP M * 15mm compression + length of chromed 15mm pipe +
chromed compression nut & olive onto the rad valve

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote


But I'd get some tube and anneal it. Then see if you can form the
required offset with a spring. You could then fit that to the existing
pipe with a end feed straight coupler at floor level which shouldn't be
that noticeable - and neater than using elbows.

Thanks Dave

Yes I should have made it clear, intend to cut back existing upstand of pipe
and pre-form the necessary off-set.
Then couple to the shorter stub at ground level.
Not sure whether this amount of bend is achievable in this length of pipe -
that was the real question.

Phil

"John Stumbles" wrote

If the pipes are set directly in the concrete they are likely to be
corroding.

1970s build - all ground floor mains wrapped in "material" laid in sand
filled channels and covered with concrete capping.
All rad tails simply concreted in place. Gas pipes installed similarly.

Phil

On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:54:34 +0100, TheScullster wrote:

Not sure whether this amount of bend is achievable in this length of
pipe - that was the real question.

I doubt very much with that length of pipe, by hand, using a spring. You
can probably do it with a new, longer, length of pipe and a proper bender
no trouble, it might even be possible with by hand and a spring.

The snag is you need two bends one to start the widening and another to
stop it and get the pipe end vertical again to fit the valve.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article om,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I doubt very much with that length of pipe, by hand, using a spring. You
can probably do it with a new, longer, length of pipe and a proper
bender no trouble, it might even be possible with by hand and a spring.

A proper bender works to a fixed radius, and it's definitely possible to
get tighter than this with a spring and soft pipe, although not as tight
as two 45 degree elbows back to back. Or at least I couldn't. ;-)

The snag is you need two bends one to start the widening and another to
stop it and get the pipe end vertical again to fit the valve.

Yes, but the idea is to make a new section and fit that to where the
original emerges from the floor.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:05:36 +0100, TheScullster wrote:


"John Stumbles" wrote

If the pipes are set directly in the concrete they are likely to be
corroding.

1970s build - all ground floor mains wrapped in "material" laid in sand
filled channels and covered with concrete capping.
All rad tails simply concreted in place. Gas pipes installed similarly.

Nasty. When I've come across corroding copper pipes in concrete it seems
to be the bits nearest the surface that corrode worst.

TheScullster wrote:

But how do I generate the 15mm extra distance between tail pipe centres?
I do not like the "street elbow straight into the valve" approach.
Is it possible to put a "set" or "crank" (not sure of the correct
terminology) in a pipe to give a 15mm offset in 75mm length using bending
spring?

Easy enough with a pipe bender on a new stub of pipe, you may be able to
do it with a spring, but tricky...

Could you not use a couple of end feed 45 degree bends? That ought to
give you a pipe widths offset nicely.


--
Cheers,

John.

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"John Rumm" wrote

Could you not use a couple of end feed 45 degree bends? That ought to give
you a pipe widths offset nicely.


John, you might have solved it with that one!
Being an amateur, I have always tended to use solder-ring fittings. So my
measurement of the throw of a 45 degree elbow is based on those.
Will check this out next time I'm in B&Q.

Thanks

Phil

In article ,
TheScullster wrote:
John, you might have solved it with that one! Being an amateur, I have
always tended to use solder-ring fittings. So my measurement of the
throw of a 45 degree elbow is based on those. Will check this out next
time I'm in B&Q.

You can also trim the ends of end feed elbows to get an exact fit.
Obviously not by much, though. And if you make up the 'tail' off the job
you could make sure the joint is invisible by using excess solder then
sanding, etc.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

TheScullster wrote:

Could you not use a couple of end feed 45 degree bends? That ought to give
you a pipe widths offset nicely.



John, you might have solved it with that one!
Being an amateur, I have always tended to use solder-ring fittings. So my
measurement of the throw of a 45 degree elbow is based on those.
Will check this out next time I'm in B&Q.

You may be able to get one "street" 45 deg elbow - that would fit
directly into the next ordinary one. That may get the offset closer
still and eliminate the need for the small stub of pipe between them.

If you are used to making solder ring joints you wont have any
difficulty making an end feed.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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