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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: What would be the range of a Ferrari when it does 130mph continuously? At 130mph it will be in single figures, so not long at all. Another figure plucked from thin air. Since you're so good at quoting other's figures please give a source for this one. My jag did about 15mpg at 130mph, so about 280 miles range probably. So not single figures from a heavy car with poor CD and a less than state of the art engine? Good CD and state of the art engine please. Just an awful plot of stuff like aircon, supercharger, Getrag box and torque converter, hanging off it.And tryes to absorb the 380- bhp. The point was not that its vile on fuel consumption, but how MUCH that consumption is a function of how its driven. My previous XK8, as opposed to the XKR (only difference is the supercharger, and even fatter tyres) would if drivcen never more than 70 and ceraflly, turn in as much as 27mpg. The XKR only ever managed 24..there is a LOT of rolling resistance on tyres designed to corner a 2 ton car at 1g.. I used to be able to get better than 50mpg out of a 1970's spitfire 1300, driven carefully and below 60mph. Not that I ever did that more than once, when 2" of snow on the ground necessitated it. Todays fat soft tyres and larger than needed engines (makes for more frictional losses at lower power) are very much against the economy. Under about 55mph the CD makes very little odds. Leccy cars will score because they can be optimised for whatever driving speed you choose, efficiency wise. They use nothing apart from cooling fans when stationary, and instantaneous fuel consumption is as simple to display as a ammeter in the dashboard :D. Add in regenerative braking and you claw back quite a bit more as well. |
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"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... "nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... Modern generating equipment, transmissions, localised power stations, modern batteries in cars etc, proves that is total balls. You appear to be talking about efficiency of energy conversion, which is not the same as the type or amount of pollution produced in converting that energy. Energy used to propel n amount of cars of same size x number of miles. 1. Using electric 2. Using petrol. Also factor in the energy sued in the refining and distribution process for car fuel too. That is what it is about. EVs win. They also don't ruin millions of lungs in towns and cities too. However, I was not talking about energy efficiency. I was talking about pollution levels and the fact that electric cars produce around three times as much as an IC engine. .... Current petrol engine efficiency averages 32%, Nope. 25% You are on about peak. 32% is average for modern cars and that is what electric vehicles should be compared with, as it is new car buyers who will choose which technology is used. .... although most generating plant in use is nearer 40% efficient. The old stuff. The majority of the generating capacity is still in the older plant. Transmission losses in the UK average around 7.4% and the non-zero charge recharging efficiency of traction batteries is around 80-85%, although that can drop off dramatically as the charge level approaches 90%. Not with the Tesla. Read what they have done to make it viable and double range. If electric cars are going to sell in volume, they will have to compete on cost, which means that most will use conventional traction batteries for a very long time yet. snip out of date stuff about EV efficiencies The data was about six months old, but you would have to snip it, as it showed that electric vehicles have about the same overall efficiency as a petrol car, which gives no reason to accept the higher levels of pollution involved in powering them. Colin Bignell |
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... However..consider. 1/. Service costs. There is virtually nothing to wear out on an electric car - brake pads/discs/tyres are it, really. No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. |
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"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... "Doctor Drivel" wrote in message reenews.net... "nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... Modern generating equipment, transmissions, localised power stations, modern batteries in cars etc, proves that is total balls. You appear to be talking about efficiency of energy conversion, which is not the same as the type or amount of pollution produced in converting that energy. Energy used to propel n amount of cars of same size x number of miles. 1. Using electric 2. Using petrol. Also factor in the energy sued in the refining and distribution process for car fuel too. That is what it is about. EVs win. They also don't ruin millions of lungs in towns and cities too. However, I was not talking about energy efficiency. I was talking about pollution levels and the fact that electric cars produce around three times as much as an IC engine. THEY DO NOT!!! Read again. Don't go on outdated myths. Current petrol engine efficiency averages 32%, Nope. 25% You are on about peak. 32% is average for modern cars Nope 25%. although most generating plant in use is nearer 40% efficient. The old stuff. The majority of the generating capacity is still in the older plant. It is gradually being renewed, do those figures are false as wehn EVs come in, in big way the new effuicient and "cleaner" plant will be almost in place. Transmission losses in the UK average around 7.4% and the non-zero charge recharging efficiency of traction batteries is around 80-85%, although that can drop off dramatically as the charge level approaches 90%. Not with the Tesla. Read what they have done to make it viable and double range. If electric cars are going to sell in volume, they will have to compete on cost, The Tesla competes on cost. It is a Porsche type of car, which out performs and costs the same. which means that most will use conventional traction batteries for a very long time yet. You just made that up, and it is plain you are unaware of battery and power generation efficiency and pollution cleaning advances. snip out of date stuff about EV efficiencies The data was about six months old, but you would have to snip it, as it showed that electric vehicles have about the same overall efficiency as a petrol car, They DO NOT. And those figures do take into account the Tesla which power management software gets far more out of a battery. snip misguided comments |
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"Mike Dodd" wrote in message ... Doctor Drivel wrote: "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... However..consider. 1/. Service costs. There is virtually nothing to wear out on an electric car - brake pads/discs/tyres are it, really. No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. You just made that up. I actually have a Prius and the pads are like new, as they rarely get used. |
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. You just made that up. I actually have a Prius and the pads are like new, as they rarely get used. Plenty of pads for sale online. Must be upsetting for these companies not to actually be able to sell them, then. Interestingly, a few articles about brake failure on the Prius, too, many of which the dealers can't reproduce and won't repair. I'd be afraid, if I was you. Or near you. |
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In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Those figures are very poor - but it is a design dating from the '60s and far too heavy with poor CD so the only way to get decent performance was with vastly powerful engines. No, its just an utterly over engined car - 4 liter superharged with an auto box. Design from the 90's actually :-) It is still the basic XJ6 from the '60s. Later Jags are a great step forward with lightweight construction involving ally body parts. And supercharging is simply a brute force way to power - it always results in worse consumption than an equivalent normally aspirated engine. -- *It was all so different before everything changed. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Fully Electric Car available soon
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Todays fat soft tyres and larger than needed engines (makes for more frictional losses at lower power) are very much against the economy. Under about 55mph the CD makes very little odds. Leccy cars will score because they can be optimised for whatever driving speed you choose, efficiency wise. They use nothing apart from cooling fans when stationary, and instantaneous fuel consumption is as simple to display as a ammeter in the dashboard If they decide not to fit vast tyres etc. And of course you don't need too much heating or cooling which comes nearly free on an IC engine. Trouble is luxury cars like this are bought by people who don't care about fuel consumption - and are unlikely to buy an electric car unless it matches it in all ways. So sumptuous (and heavy) interior, lots of sound proofing including double glazing to keep extraneous noise out. 5 kW heating and equivalent air-con so you don't have to wait for them to take effect. Etc etc. All of which will not help the range of a battery car. -- *If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article ,
Mike Dodd wrote: Doctor Drivel wrote: "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... However..consider. 1/. Service costs. There is virtually nothing to wear out on an electric car - brake pads/discs/tyres are it, really. No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. The reason could be they're so slow and unsporting to drive they're always driven gently. And only used in towns, so mileage is low. -- *Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: I actually have a Prius [snip further lies] -- *Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Mike Dodd" wrote in message ... Doctor Drivel wrote: No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. You just made that up. I actually have a Prius and the pads are like new, as they rarely get used. Plenty of pads for sale online. Must be upsetting for these companies not to actually be able to sell them, then. Interestingly, a few articles about brake failure on the Prius, too, many of which the dealers can't reproduce and won't repair. I'd be afraid, if I was you. Or near you. You made all that up. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Those figures are very poor - but it is a design dating from the '60s and far too heavy with poor CD so the only way to get decent performance was with vastly powerful engines. No, its just an utterly over engined car - 4 liter superharged with an auto box. Design from the 90's actually :-) It is still the basic XJ6 Richard it is still kaka. An IC engine so kaka. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article , The Natural Philosopher wrote: Todays fat soft tyres and larger than needed engines (makes for more frictional losses at lower power) are very much against the economy. Under about 55mph the CD makes very little odds. Leccy cars will score because they can be optimised for whatever driving speed you choose, efficiency wise. They use nothing apart from cooling fans when stationary, and instantaneous fuel consumption is as simple to display as a ammeter in the dashboard If they decide not to fit vast tyres etc. And of course you don't need too much heating or cooling which comes nearly free on an IC engine. Richard, it comes free? Nothing is free. Tut, tut. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article , Mike Dodd wrote: Doctor Drivel wrote: "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... However..consider. 1/. Service costs. There is virtually nothing to wear out on an electric car - brake pads/discs/tyres are it, really. No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. The reason could be they're so slow and unsporting to drive Richard, they are great fun to drive. That is their appeal, beside just about every other aspect of it. Tut, tut. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: I actually have a Prius snip senile Richard Cranium drivel Sad but true. |
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
Toshiba have announced a battery that can take 80% of the charge in 3 mins, full in 5. Tesla are looking to the new batteries that will emerge in nest few years. That only solves a part of the problem. You then need a recharging point that can deliver the 100s or 1000's of amps required to take advantage of the fast charge rate. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:59:34 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:
"John Stumbles" wrote in message [1] Oh! that a certain contributor to this group were so enlightened. Then he might be making something like this instead of drooling about it. Would this contributor put wood behind shower mixers? That's right: I was referring to the same contributor who thought a brittle, hard-to-work and expensive material was more appropriate than plywood as a temporary former for moulding plaster. |
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"John Stumbles" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:59:34 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote: "John Stumbles" wrote in message [1] Oh! that a certain contributor to this group were so enlightened. Then he might be making something like this instead of drooling about it. Would this contributor put wood behind shower mixers? That's right: Well that contributor is a total pillock. |
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: The reason could be they're so slow and unsporting to drive Richard, they are great fun to drive. Proves you've never driven one - or a decent car. They handle like a pile of poo. The steering is unpleasant as well. Feels like a US 'small' car. -- *'ome is where you 'ang your @ * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... Current petrol engine efficiency averages 32%, Nope. 25% You are on about peak. Waiting at a traffic lights with the running engine, the efficiency of a petrol engine is 0% When an electric car is at the traffic lights it is at 100% efficiency. IC engine efficiency decreases very, very much at low power demand. Diesel engines loose efficiency at low power demand too, but not as much as a petrol engine. Both as still crap. So when a 200hp engine has to deliver only 5hp for crawling in city traffic, the efficiency is extremely low indeed. And they also pollute like hell and ruin people's lungs. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: The reason could be they're so slow and unsporting to drive Richard, they are great fun to drive. Proves Richard here is drivelling again. snip senile drivel Sad isn't it. |
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel writes How is that grotty town you live in? The grotty town where Tiger Woods just won the latest Open, you mean? Whereas you're living in that ******** known as Milton Keynes laughs -- (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination. |
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 01:04:51 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel writes How is that grotty town you live in? The grotty town where Tiger Woods just won the latest Open, you mean? Whereas you're living in that ******** known as Milton Keynes laughs No, really? Oh well that would explain why he wants everyone to live in a ****box constructed from ticky-tacky. He doesn't want to feel alone. Hey, Drivel! Milton Keynes is where the UK would get piles if it had them. |
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Waiting at a traffic lights with the running engine, the efficiency of a petrol engine is 0% In practice not if it's running air con or heating. When an electric car is at the traffic lights it is at 100% efficiency. In practice not if it's running air con or heating. BTW - love the idea of a stationary car being 100% efficient. So a car with no engine at all is 100% efficient... -- *Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: So when a 200hp engine has to deliver only 5hp for crawling in city traffic, the efficiency is extremely low indeed. And they also pollute like hell and ruin people's lungs. A petrol car with a catalytic convertor actually produces less pollutants than exist in city air. The main by product of combustion is CO2, and that doesn't damage lungs. Of course it may on the planet you come from. -- *I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Waiting at a traffic lights with the running engine, the efficiency of a petrol engine is 0% In snip disjointed babbling Richard Cranium is a David Hasselhof fan you know. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: So when a 200hp engine has to deliver only 5hp for crawling in city traffic, the efficiency is extremely low indeed. And they also pollute like hell and ruin people's lungs. A petrol car well more snipped illogical babble Richard Cranium here is Matt Monroe fan. |
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"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel writes How is that grotty town you live in? The grotty town where Tiger Woods just won the latest Open, you mean? No. That was the Royal Liverpool Golf Club ina town called "Hoylake", not the grotty one you live in. Whereas you're living in that ******** known as Milton Keynes laughs I am? New to me, although a fine city it is - unlike the grot one you live in. |
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"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in message ... No, really? snip ****kickerness A shame isn't it, the ****kicker is rambling on about well...****. Sad isn't it. |
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In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote: Whereas you're living in that ******** known as Milton Keynes laughs I am? New to me, although a fine city it is - unlike the grot one you live in. A city has a cathedral. MK's one is made of trees planted to resemble the outline of Norwich Cathedral. So a sham - rather like you, but probably in better taste. -- *If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" through a haze of senile flatulence wrote in message ... In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Whereas you're living in that ******** known as Milton Keynes laughs I am? New to me, although a fine city it is - unlike the grot one you live in. A city has a cathedral. Richard Cranium, they don't. snip senile babbling Sad isn't it. Very sad. I hope has cleaned the doggy doos off his loafers. |
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On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:47:29 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:
Waiting at a traffic lights with the running engine, the efficiency of a petrol engine is 0% When an electric car is at the traffic lights it is at 100% efficiency. Err no, it's at 0% efficiency since it is not converting power into motion. ****, but you're dumb. |
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:48:58 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:
A shame isn't it, the ****kicker is rambling on about well...****. Milton Keynes, ****. |
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"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in message ... On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:47:29 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote: Waiting at a traffic lights with the running engine, the efficiency of a petrol engine is 0% When an electric car is at the traffic lights it is at 100% efficiency. Err snip ****kicking stupidity Sad isn't it. There is not much that can done about him, it was the way he was brought up. |
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nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
However, I was not talking about energy efficiency. I was talking about pollution levels and the fact that electric cars produce around three times as much as an IC engine. In what way? I can only get to about the same as anything else, myself. ... Current petrol engine efficiency averages 32%, Nope. 25% You are on about peak. 32% is average for modern cars and that is what electric vehicles should be compared with, as it is new car buyers who will choose which technology is used. Depends very much on what type of driving is under coinsideration. If electric cars are going to sell in volume, they will have to compete on cost, which means that most will use conventional traction batteries for a very long time yet. I don't think so. |
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"Steve Firth" fresh in from kicking **** wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:48:58 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote: A shame isn't it, the ****kicker is rambling on about well...****. snip ****kicking drivel Sad isn't it. Very sad indeed. He is best mates with Richard Cranium. |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ews.net, Doctor Drivel wrote: Waiting at a traffic lights with the running engine, the efficiency of a petrol engine is 0% In practice not if it's running air con or heating. As far as exrtracting motive power, its 0%. When an electric car is at the traffic lights it is at 100% efficiency. In practice not if it's running air con or heating. Its also 0%..it may be 0% of nothing of course. ;-) BTW - love the idea of a stationary car being 100% efficient. So a car with no engine at all is 100% efficient... Indeed. 0/0 is anything you care to choose between 0 and 100%. |
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Mike Dodd wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote: "The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... However..consider. 1/. Service costs. There is virtually nothing to wear out on an electric car - brake pads/discs/tyres are it, really. No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. Agreed. |
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Mike Dodd wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote: No replacement disc pads have been sold for a Pirus yet, the brake regen does it all. Delusional. You just made that up. I actually have a Prius and the pads are like new, as they rarely get used. Plenty of pads for sale online. Must be upsetting for these companies not to actually be able to sell them, then. Interestingly, a few articles about brake failure on the Prius, too, many of which the dealers can't reproduce and won't repair. I'd be afraid, if I was you. Or near you. Oh definitely, even equipped only with a bicycle.;-) |
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