Hi everyone,

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space. I have taken a few pictures and made
a drawing of the roof. I can supply measurements of the timber pieces.

thanks for any advice

pictures he

http://branoblogging.blogspot.com/20...-pictures.html

Brano wrote:
Hi everyone,

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space. I have taken a few pictures and made
a drawing of the roof. I can supply measurements of the timber pieces.

thanks for any advice

pictures he

http://branoblogging.blogspot.com/20...-pictures.html

Matchwood needs to be replaced with proper wood trusses that dont need
lots of latticework to survive. That means either replacing the whole
roof structure, or else cutting the matchsticks out one truss at a time
and reinforcing whats there to make it strong enough. You'd need some
qualified advice on doing that.

Also check your headroom, you lose some during a conversion.


NT

Brano wrote:
Hi everyone,

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space. I have taken a few pictures and made
a drawing of the roof. I can supply measurements of the timber pieces.

thanks for any advice

pictures he

http://branoblogging.blogspot.com/20...-pictures.html

Brano,

Sorry to rain on the parade, but if you have to ask that question here, you
are not really proficient to do the work.

You are talking about major structural changes, and with the roof timbers
and tiles alone weighing in at around twenty tons, then if you make a
mistake, you wil have a big headache to sort out - and remember, a decent
fall of snow can add a few more tons to that!

You will also require to insert new floor joists etc to carry the loading -
along with building reg approval and possibly planning permission.

My advice is to consult either a structural engineer, architect or loft
conversion specialist for further advice.



Brian G

"Brano" wrote ...
I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space. I have taken a few pictures and made
a drawing of the roof. I can supply measurements of the timber pieces.

Unfortunately Brano, in the late '60's / early '70's penny-pinching builders
started adopting the "fink truss" roof, found in your house. This was
invented in the 1940's during the War Effort to save decent timber for
building aircraft etc. by reducing the strength (read size) of timber for
roofing. There was no consideratioin given to the likelihood of anyone
wanting to use the space in the loft, and other aspects of houses built this
way are affected - the ceiling joists are designed only to support the
plaster and loft insulation, for instance (water tanks often have to be sat
on specially constructed platforms of "proper sturdy wood" to pass the loads
to the walls), the upper wall structure is designed to take smaller dead
loads as the fink truss is lighter by far than the traditional "cut roof"
joists anad purlins. A by-product of this change is that roof pitches
decreased from around 45 degrees to between 20 and 30 degrees, with a
corresponding loss of loft height - to make an usable room one needs a
height of at least 7' over most of the floor.

To even consider a loft conversion, you *need* the services of a structural
engineer as the fink truss is an unitary structure - all the elements are
required to share the loadings - and removing one element will quite likely
mean that other elements are taken beyond their permitted loads, with the
risk of collapse... it'll need a complete new roof strucure of full-sized
timber, probaly steelwork as (for example) the spans betwen supports for the
roof will exceed the building regulation defined maximum for unsupported
purlins . While designing the new roof structure it''s likely that the
architect / structural engineer will consider that the wall structure isn't
adequate for the new loadings (particularly if there are stud-and-plaster
internal walls or timber-frame external walls, requiring additional
structural work down to foundation level... you'll need to install new floor
joists alongside the existing ceiling joists (which can't be removed in
advance, as they tie the building walls together and prevent the outward
roof load toppling them), probably 8" by 2" minimum, raising the current
"floor" level by 4" or so. The increase in "floor" height will reduce
headroom, meaning you'l need to either raise the ridge line or install
dormer windows... it goes on and on.

G/f and I are in the final stages of buying a house together, with the
possibility (or probability) of converting the loft firmly in mind - we
eliminated anything built since 1960 - 1970 for just these reasons!

My considered advice is:
..
..
..
Move house [1]. It'll be cheaper and less disruptive.

Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)


[1] to a nice trad house made of bricks with a nice trad roof made of 8x2"
and bigger timbers

Brano wrote:

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space. I have taken a few pictures and made
a drawing of the roof. I can supply measurements of the timber pieces.

One solution is to simply ignore the existing woodwork and build
yourself a new roof structure inside the loft using more traditional
joinery (i.e. rafters, purlins etc). Since the use of trusses allows
wide roof spans without need for an intermediat supporting wall it may
also be that you have nothing to support an traditional loft stucture.
If this were the case then you would probably need do find a way of
intalling a beam across the middle of the properties.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Brano" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi everyone,

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space. I have taken a few pictures and made
a drawing of the roof. I can supply measurements of the timber pieces.

thanks for any advice

pictures he

http://branoblogging.blogspot.com/20...-pictures.html


My mate used these guys.
http://www.trussloft.co.uk/
Baz

Hi everyone,

guys firstly thanks for all your advice. Just to confirm some things. I
have checked the headroom and it will still make a nice bedroom the
highest point of the roof is about 3 meters high. One of you was saying
about old houses my house was build in 2005 and you see what it has
instead of roof... It's terrible the way houses are build in UK.

Oh as far as the snow goes there is none here where I live... so no
worries there


As far as the flooring is concerned i have walked about the roof (on
the joints) and they seem fine they are 2x4 my house is also adjoining
another and thats why my roof is basically just a half of a proper
roof. But in the middle between the two houses there are big big beams
that can be used to put the other timber pieces on them.

Does anyone know how to do the calculations of loadings to determine
what timber you need to use?

The idea of building another roof support is what i basically thought i
will need to do I think i would need to add a piece of timer to every
existing one on the ones that hold the roof the only question is how
strong it should be?

and for the people who were talking about that I am not qualified to do
this sort of job and posting adverts on their own companies thanks but
I am no looking for any replies from you guys...

for everyone else thanks for any more advice you can give

Brano wrote:

Oh as far as the snow goes there is none here where I live... so no
worries there

you're not in the uk? Im not aware of any uk location that never gets
snow.


As far as the flooring is concerned i have walked about the roof (on
the joints) and they seem fine

and for the people who were talking about that I am not qualified to do
this sort of job and posting adverts on their own companies thanks but
I am no looking for any replies from you guys...

for everyone else thanks for any more advice you can give

They may be right. If youre going to do it yourself you need to learn
more first.


NT

"Brano" wrote ...


Oh as far as the snow goes there is none here where I live... so no
worries there

All the same, to pass building regulations approval you *must* factor in
snow loading for the one time in 50 years it falls! There's also wind
loading to be allowed for (the highest speed measured in 50 years as a
basis).

As far as the flooring is concerned i have walked about the roof (on
the joints) and they seem fine they are 2x4

Again, building regs mean you'll need much larger floor joists - you walking
around on your own is not the same as the added weight of flooring,
furniture etc

my house is also adjoining
another and thats why my roof is basically just a half of a proper
roof. But in the middle between the two houses there are big big beams
that can be used to put the other timber pieces on them.

So you have a party wall - see below for warnings!

Does anyone know how to do the calculations of loadings to determine
what timber you need to use?


Yes - a structural engineer or architect, whose calculations will be checked
by the building control officer

The idea of building another roof support is what i basically thought i
will need to do I think i would need to add a piece of timer to every
existing one on the ones that hold the roof the only question is how
strong it should be?


See answer above...

If you go ahead and carry out the work without building control (assuming
you're in the UK) the local authority can engage a reputable structural
engineer or architect to prescribe remedies for any deficiencies and
builders to carry out the remedial works, all at your expense. If your works
affect a party wall (and you've stated that it does in your posting), the
Party Wall Act comes into play and you'll need a legal agreement with your
neighbour before commencing work - a solicitor will advise them to engage an
architect or structural engineer, again this will be at your expense so you
may as well do it anyway! The local authority also has powers to demolish an
unsafe structure (at your expense, of course) if they consider it
irrepairable...

If you get it badly wrong, you could find yourself liable for substantial
financial damages to recompense your nrighbours for the collapse of their
roof, as well as ours, possibly damages for injuries to 3rd parties...

Either pay the professionals (who you can sue if things go wrong) or move to
somewhere bigger - either will be financially better than bankruptcy brought
about by legal liabilities and/or possible criminal prosecution!

Dave H.
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Brano" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi everyone,

SNIP
and for the people who were talking about that I am not qualified to do
this sort of job and posting adverts on their own companies thanks but
I am no looking for any replies from you guys...

for everyone else thanks for any more advice you can give


Brano.
The link I sent you was sent in good faith.
I hope you took the time to take a look.
As I had taken the time to reply to your post.
I have nothing to do with the company, apart from "My Mate Used Them"
And they where very good, and there are quite a few good suggestions on the
web site.

See this is how it works, you ask for advice and you get advice.

Baz.

Brano wrote:
Hi everyone,

guys firstly thanks for all your advice. Just to confirm some things.
I have checked the headroom and it will still make a nice bedroom the
highest point of the roof is about 3 meters high. One of you was
saying about old houses my house was build in 2005 and you see what
it has instead of roof... It's terrible the way houses are build in
UK.

Oh as far as the snow goes there is none here where I live... so no
worries there

Yes there is! Very high winds can give the roof an excessive loading at
times and in the UK, YOU WILL get snow at some stage wherever you are!

As far as the flooring is concerned i have walked about the roof (on
the joints) and they seem fine they are 2x4 my house is also adjoining
another and thats why my roof is basically just a half of a proper
roof. But in the middle between the two houses there are big big beams
that can be used to put the other timber pieces on them.

Great just walking on the 4 x 2s, you can do that forever and all you'll get
is cracking of the ceiling below - stick a "dead load" of furniture on
those, plus a couple of fast-asleep bodies plus all the other paraphernalia
of the bedroom and loads increase dramatically with undesirable effects.

Does anyone know how to do the calculations of loadings to determine
what timber you need to use?

For what you are asking, you really don't have the knowledge to carry out
the works and you need to take professional advice - to put it bluntly, you
are risking lives if you muck up!

The idea of building another roof support is what i basically thought
i will need to do I think i would need to add a piece of timer to
every existing one on the ones that hold the roof the only question
is how strong it should be?

Take professional advice please, I have seen a bedroom ceiling bending
nearly a foot in the middle of the room with just floor decking and a train
set in the attic - along with the furniture required to support the train
set.

and for the people who were talking about that I am not qualified to
do this sort of job and posting adverts on their own companies thanks
but I am no looking for any replies from you guys...

Take it from me, I am qualified (and from your questions, you certainly are
not) and in my working career within building maintenance both as a
tradesman and manager, I've seen the real scary results of some of the
'fixes' that have been suggested here (that's I why I am so direct in my
wording) and not just a harbinger of doom and gloom.

Remember the following:

1. Do the conversion *WITHOUT* building reg approval etc, and when you come
to sell the house, you may have quite a surprise at what you will lose
financially.

2. The TDRA roof-truss is structurally designed to make the best use of what
are comparatively short lengths of timber that will support the dead load of
a roof that itself can weigh in excess of 20 tons, plus weather loading.
The ceiling rafters (effectively the bottom of the roof truss) are designed
to carry and disperse the downward loads of the roof and the ceiling plus a
person walking along them for maintenance purposes. Start cutting this
about and/or applying higher than designed loads, then you will have
problems.

3. If, after carrying out the works yourself, something goes wrong, see how
quick your insurance company will invoke the clauses in their small print so
that they will not have to pay - along with the possibilty of you appearing
in the 'dock' in front of the fella with the red robes and funny wig facing
a serious charge!

4. If you have a mortgage, and you carry out the works *WITHOUT* the lenders
knowledge or permission - and they find out, you are literally up the creek
without a paddle, as you are effectively reducing the value of their
invesment - read the small print in your mortgage contract/agreement about
various permissions that are required for virtually all works on a mortaged
property - the can be quite restrictive.

for everyone else thanks for any more advice you can give

Yes, if you really want to do the works yourself -- visit a good structural
engineer, architect or loft conversion specialist and pay them to design
what you want and to carry out all the calculations.

You then apply for the necessary permissions from your local authority and
mortgage lender, then arm yourself with the practical knowledge, tools, a
couple of good mates to give a hand as and when needed and get in with a
good builders merchant to get the best material prices - that way, you can
safely and economically carry out a D-I-Y a loft conversion and add value
to the property - along with the proud feeling of having done a damn good
job!


Best of luck in you efforts Brano.

Brian G

A quick question before we get to the detail:

Do you understand that work of this type needs to be notified to, be
supervised by, and ultimately approved by, the building control
department of the local council?

[note this is notthing to do with planning permission which is a
separate unrelated issue]

[If so were you intending to notify and use the building control
department for this work]



Brano wrote:

guys firstly thanks for all your advice. Just to confirm some things. I
have checked the headroom and it will still make a nice bedroom the
highest point of the roof is about 3 meters high. One of you was saying

Which would suggest plenty of height...

Oh as far as the snow goes there is none here where I live... so no
worries there

You still need to take these things into account even if they are only
rare in frequency.

As far as the flooring is concerned i have walked about the roof (on
the joints) and they seem fine they are 2x4 my house is also adjoining
another and thats why my roof is basically just a half of a proper
roof. But in the middle between the two houses there are big big beams
that can be used to put the other timber pieces on them.

This may be the case, but you will need to prove this via calculation.
This in turn means you need a very good understanding of how the current
loft structure works structurally. Note that changes you make might also
affect the neighbours.

To give you some idea of the work involved in constructing the new floor
you can see what I needed to do with my one he

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/floor.htm

Does anyone know how to do the calculations of loadings to determine
what timber you need to use?

Yes...

The idea of building another roof support is what i basically thought i
will need to do I think i would need to add a piece of timer to every
existing one on the ones that hold the roof the only question is how
strong it should be?

and for the people who were talking about that I am not qualified to do
this sort of job and posting adverts on their own companies thanks but
I am no looking for any replies from you guys...

As long as you are prepared to learn (and there is plenty you will need
to get to grips with if you want to do the whole job yourself) then you
should be OK. The danger comes if you end up having to make guesses or
failyng that, rejecting good advice because you believe you know better.

for everyone else thanks for any more advice you can give

Have a look around my site link above, see if that helps get started

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30 Jun 2006 13:05:11 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named "Brano"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters.

http://branoblogging.blogspot.com/20...-pictures.html

Your section appears to show that the roof is a monopitch. Is that
the case, and if so, is it supported on a load-bearing wall at the
top? If so, then you can support your new rafters (or a dormer) from
this wall to the wallplate. If not, then you would have to install a
steel beam at the ridge.

It can be done, but it is a lot more work than a 'conventional' loft
(as said elsewhere, it virtually involves replacing your roof).
Consult a structural engineer in the first instance to see if it's
feasible. If you decide to go ahead, then get a surveyor or architect
to draw up the plans for Building Regulations. Don't be tempted to
let the engineer do more than draw up the structural details, as IME,
they don't have enough of a grasp on the details of the Building
Regulations to do more than **** the BCO off.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

"Brian G" wrote in message
...

mistake, you wil have a big headache to sort out - and remember, a decent
fall of snow can add a few more tons to that!

That's "summer" these days isn't it ;-)

Cheers
Dan.

I'm in Belfast there was no snow that would stay on the roof for the
last 5 years...

Yes that is exactly what I am looking to do here.
thanks

wrote:
Brano wrote:

Oh as far as the snow goes there is none here where I live... so no
worries there

you're not in the uk? Im not aware of any uk location that never gets
snow.


As far as the flooring is concerned i have walked about the roof (on
the joints) and they seem fine

and for the people who were talking about that I am not qualified to do
this sort of job and posting adverts on their own companies thanks but
I am no looking for any replies from you guys...

for everyone else thanks for any more advice you can give

They may be right. If youre going to do it yourself you need to learn
more first.


NT

I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space.

The cheapest method is probably to remove the entire roof and build it again
properly. Trussed systems are simply unsuited to conversion. They are
computer designed to save every cm of wood and only resist the loads used in
design, which did not include several people and furniture.

Modification of the existing would be fiddly, and, in all probability, more
expensive because of the labour cost.

An additional advantage of entirely reroofing is that the roof covering gets
relaid and you get to install breathable membrane felt which lets you
install more effective insulation.

Christian.

Flooring Ok could you tell me what flooring i need then if 4 x 2 is not
enough I believe that the flooring timer piecies are on a load bearing
wall on both sides...

What is the clear span of the timbers?

Assuming no heavy fixed dead loads (i.e. just normal flooring, no partition
walls). 600mm spacing between joists.

4x2 (50x97) = 1.58m
5x2 (50x122) = 2.37m
6x2 (50x147) = 2.86m
7x2 (50x170) = 3.29m
8x2 (50x195) = 3.73m
9x2 (50x220) = 4.17m

You get a bit extra span by spacing joists more closely. You get a bit less
if you have some heavy dead load.

Christian.

"Brano" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm in Belfast there was no snow that would stay on the roof for the
last 5 years...

In that case you need to study this.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/index/laws-a...g-regulations/

Jim A

Brano wrote:
I'm in Belfast there was no snow that would stay on the roof for the
last 5 years...

do you only epect this to last 4 years then??

NT

Christian McArdle wrote:
I am looking to do a loft conversion in my house, but the roof is
supported with trussed rafters. I am looking for some advice on how to
create an alternative support for the roof so i can take take these
out and create some usable space.

The cheapest method is probably to remove the entire roof and build it again
properly. Trussed systems are simply unsuited to conversion. They are
computer designed to save every cm of wood and only resist the loads used in
design, which did not include several people and furniture.

Modification of the existing would be fiddly, and, in all probability, more
expensive because of the labour cost.

An additional advantage of entirely reroofing is that the roof covering gets
relaid and you get to install breathable membrane felt which lets you
install more effective insulation.

Christian.

I dont know whether in such situations you could stretch to another 2'
of wall height added on, but if you can that will much increase the
usable space up there.

NT

"Jim Alexander" wrote in message
news

"Brano" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm in Belfast there was no snow that would stay on the roof for the
last 5 years...

In that case you need to study this.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/index/laws-a...g-regulations/

Jim A

and specifically your Techical Booklet D regarding the need to consider snow
loading

Jim A

On 3 Jul 2006 02:23:26 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named "Brano"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

I have contacted the council and they have basically say that I can do
either an application with submiting the plans or without submiting the
plans just a notice of building or something like that both are going
to cost me 180 GBP

Then either:
a) you haven't been completely honest with them as to the extent of
the work you're proposing;
b) they have misinterpreted what you're proposing to do; or
c) as a Council tax payer you should be asking why your Council is
only charging half what the rest of the country is and losing money on
loft conversions hand-over-fist.

You say you know how to calc this could you tell me how?

....for free?

The council (building regulations) said i do not have to submit plans
that I can just submit a building notice and start the work.

Legally, yes you can. However, practically speaking unless you can
answer the following questions, I would suggest you need to work from
plans:
1. Do you have an enclosed escape route and an alternative exit from
the loft, or will you have a completely protected route with 30
minutes fire resistance?
2. What size will your rafters, floor joists and trimmers, etc. be?
3. Will you be removing the ties at wallplate level, and if so how
will you prevent lateral movement?
4. What insulation will you be using between and under your rafters,
and how are you going to maintain cross ventilation?
5. What wattage will your radiators be?
6. How many energy-efficient light fittings will you be providing?

With a Building Notice, there's a presumption that you know the
answers to these questions (and more) and that you have a modicum of
ability in what is needed to comply with the Building Regulations. If
not, then you really should take professional advice before starting.
It's like learning to drive without an instructor by reading the car's
handbook.

Oh, BTW, one of the questions is not covered by the Building
Regulations. See if you can spot which one.

I will keep posting here about the progress.

I'll wait to hear on the news, "man dies as roof collapses".
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

"Brano" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly Thanks everyone for your posts.

Just to answer few queries he

I have contacted the council and they have basically say that I can do
either an application with submiting the plans or without submiting the
plans just a notice of building or something like that both are going
to cost me 180 GBP

Dave H. :

The adjoining part of the house I believe that there is a load bearing
wall between my house and neighbours house and that the big big timber
structures are on both sides of it so I will only be working with mine
ones not the neighbours...

NO, its between the properties and shared, it's a PARTY WALL and you need to
comply with the Party Wall Act - you'll need a legal agreement from your
neighbours to do anything that impinges on the wall or the attached
structure - please believe me, I have to get agreement from neighbours in
order to convert my loft, as despite the wall between properties being the
demarcation, it's a party wall because we both have it as our boundary.

Dave H,
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Dave H." wrote in message
...

"Brano" wrote in message
oups.com...
Firstly Thanks everyone for your posts.

Just to answer few queries he

I have contacted the council and they have basically say that I can do
either an application with submiting the plans or without submiting the
plans just a notice of building or something like that both are going
to cost me 180 GBP

Dave H. :

The adjoining part of the house I believe that there is a load bearing
wall between my house and neighbours house and that the big big timber
structures are on both sides of it so I will only be working with mine
ones not the neighbours...

NO, its between the properties and shared, it's a PARTY WALL and you need
to comply with the Party Wall Act - you'll need a legal agreement from
your neighbours to do anything that impinges on the wall or the attached
structure - please believe me, I have to get agreement from neighbours in
order to convert my loft, as despite the wall between properties being the
demarcation, it's a party wall because we both have it as our boundary.

I think we're in new territory here in this group regarding Northern
Ireland. Hate to give any credence to emissions from two shag's
department, the Party Wall Act probably makes sense, but does it apply in
Northern Ireland?

Jim A

Jim Alexander :

thanks a lot those booklets look very useful.

Christian McArdle :

I will get the span measurements tonight...

:

;o) hehe

Hugo Nebula :

Then either:
a) you haven't been completely honest with them as to the extent of
the work you're proposing;
b) they have misinterpreted what you're proposing to do; or
c) as a Council tax payer you should be asking why your Council is
only charging half what the rest of the country is and losing money on
loft conversions hand-over-fist.

Well I double checked that is what they charge for it it doesnt matter
what type of work it is that is the charge for the building notice.

...for free?

Well if you have enough time to read google groups surely you have
enough time to do it for me? You wouldn't want money for it would you?
Money only destroys character believe me...

1. Do you have an enclosed escape route and an alternative exit from
the loft, or will you have a completely protected route with 30
minutes fire resistance?
2. What size will your rafters, floor joists and trimmers, etc. be?
3. Will you be removing the ties at wallplate level, and if so how
will you prevent lateral movement?
4. What insulation will you be using between and under your rafters,
and how are you going to maintain cross ventilation?
5. What wattage will your radiators be?
6. How many energy-efficient light fittings will you be providing?

I am aware of these questions and seen them several times befo

1. yes window, 30min fire res is the insulation and floorboards and
firedoor
2. thats what i am looking to find out here
3. no as I am looking to rebuild the roof support from inside rafter by
rafter.
4. the yellow stuff from B&Q not sure what you call it. Ventilation
never heard of that pls explain.
5. I am looking to put a normal radiator there not an electric one...
6. what is this do do with anything? Probably just one at the top as it
would be a smallish room.

Oh, BTW, one of the questions is not covered by the Building
Regulations. See if you can spot which one.

It's got to be the one about lights or radiators...


I'll wait to hear on the news, "man dies as roof collapses".

You seem like a very optimistic guy I can see that you will achieve a
lot in your life.


Dave H.:

NO, its between the properties and shared, it's a PARTY WALL and you need to

Actually there will be nothing touching the neighbours wall just stuff
attached to MY wooden construction on MY side of MY house behind this
there is a wall that I would not touch. And anyways there is noone
living there and i belive its going to be rented out by someone welthy
who bought it on a BUY TO LET mortgage.



Guys THANKS for all your quotes again...

I have a couple of new questions too:


What would be the difference if I only want to clasify this conversion
as a roof storage?

Does anyone know more about what needs to be done about the mortgage
company and loft conversion as the house is mortgaged?

THANKS everyone

1. yes window, 30min fire res is the insulation and floorboards and
firedoor

I presume you are aware of the specific requirements for escape windows.

4. the yellow stuff from B&Q not sure what you call it. Ventilation
never heard of that pls explain.

You could be in trouble here. One of the fundamental issues with loft
conversions is deciding on the insulation and ventilation requirements. You
could write a book about it. I doubt that most B&Qs could supply you with
any of the sensible competing materials. If you want to maximise space and
headroom, these days you basically have a choice of Kingspan/Celotex type
rigid boards between and under or Tri-iso Super X, which some people think
doesn't work.

If you have existing sarking to the roof, then you must have a 50mm gap
between the insulation and the sarking and this must be ventilated to the
soffit below and the ridge at the top.

5. I am looking to put a normal radiator there not an electric one...

Normal radiators are also specified in watts.

6. what is this do do with anything? Probably just one at the top as it
would be a smallish room.

There's a silly law requiring you to install a ridiculous expensive and ugly
fitting that will take up landfill space approximately 15 seconds after the
BCO has left.

What would be the difference if I only want to clasify this conversion
as a roof storage?

You would be committing a criminal offence if you tried to pass this off as
roof storage.

Does anyone know more about what needs to be done about the mortgage
company and loft conversion as the house is mortgaged?

Personally, I would tell the insurance company, but the mortgage company
could wait. They're not going to sue you if you add additional room (unless
you cock it up badly and don't go through building and/or planning regs).

Christian.

NO, its between the properties and shared, it's a PARTY WALL and you need
to
comply with the Party Wall Act - you'll need a legal agreement from your
neighbours to do anything that impinges on the wall or the attached
structure - please believe me, I have to get agreement from neighbours in
order to convert my loft, as despite the wall between properties being the
demarcation, it's a party wall because we both have it as our boundary.

Actually, the Party Wall Act means you don't need permission or agreement
from your neighbour. It gives you the entitlement to modify, strengthen
repair or use it. The main thing it gives your neighbour is the right to be
informed of the work and the right to appoint a surveyor at your expense to
ensure that the works are done safely and compensation for damage is paid.
They can't refuse you permission. If they try, the courts can (and will)
issue injunctions against them interfering with the work.

Christian.

"Brano" wrote...


Dave H.:

NO, its between the properties and shared, it's a PARTY WALL and you need
to

Actually there will be nothing touching the neighbours wall just stuff
attached to MY wooden construction on MY side of MY house behind this
there is a wall that I would not touch

To which your roof structure attaches, I presume, or will it be suspended on
skyhooks? If any of the roof timbers attach to the party wall, you are
liable if anything you do affects the adjoining building. I have to make a
PWA agreement with my next-door neighbours because I want to remove the
purlins in a trad' cut roof after installing new steelwork to take the roof
loadings, despite the fact that they don't extend into the adjoining
property - they attach to the party wall, so they affect the neighbours'
property.


.. And anyways there is noone
living there and i belive its going to be rented out by someone welthy
who bought it on a BUY TO LET mortgage

Who can probably afford an expensive civil lawyer to sue you into bankruptcy
if anything goes wrong (as can his mortgage lender), or if all goes well and
the PWA or similar applies, make you reinstate or modify the structure to
his satisfaction.


I have a couple of new questions too:


What would be the difference if I only want to clasify this conversion
as a roof storage?

It's not really a question of how you classify it, it's down to the local
authority building control officer, if he thinks it's an habitable room, it
has to meet the regulations.

Does anyone know more about what needs to be done about the mortgage
company and loft conversion as the house is mortgaged?

The mortgage company will want to see your architect's or structural
engineer's plans and the building control notice and will want an indemnity
in case you wreck their property (having a charge over it, they have as much
of an interest in the building's remaining upright and sound as you do).

Dave H. wrote:

The mortgage company will want to see your architect's or structural
engineer's plans and the building control notice and will want an indemnity
in case you wreck their property (having a charge over it, they have as much
of an interest in the building's remaining upright and sound as you do).

As it happes they were not in the slightest bit interested in my
conversion. I phoned them to query the bit in the policy doc that said
"you must not make any changes to the property without our agreement"
etc. and it was a case of "yeah whatever!".


--
Cheers,

John.

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Brano wrote:

I have contacted the council and they have basically say that I can do
either an application with submiting the plans or without submiting the
plans just a notice of building or something like that both are going
to cost me 180 GBP

Sounds cheap, but perhaps things are different in NI. Cost me about
double that all in IIRC.

Brian G :

Flooring Ok could you tell me what flooring i need then if 4 x 2 is not
enough I believe that the flooring timer piecies are on a load bearing
wall on both sides...

I am not going to be doing this myself I am going to get my dad to do
this... but I am looking for ideas on how to do it from people who did
it themselves...

The table Christain gave is a start, but that does assume "normal" floor
loads. If you end up with partition walls etc on those floors then
needless to say that makes things somewhat different.

Calculations - The whole topic of calculations is for sure one school
lesson that is no longer than 3 hours so why make such a big deal out
of it there must be a mathematical solution to it could you tell me
this rather than anything else?

Alas it is not that simple. On my web site I have posted links to the
software that I and my architect used to do the calcs. Given the right
information it makes doing the sums very simple.

Understanding what information to feed into the software however is a
different question. The danger of the software, is that it will simply
help you design something wrongly much more quickly. The values you need
to feed in, will in turn depend on the existing construction, and how
you plan to modify it.

Mortgage - this bit was really interesting i didn't know this thanks I
will contact them and see what they need.

Worth doing to cover your arse if nothing else. You may find they are
not too fussed. (although when I phoned them and said "I am doing a loft
conversion" they may not have interpreted that "I" quite as literally as
I meant it! ;-)

John Rumm :

Your site looks definetly good just like the thing I am looking for.
But I havent find anything about supporting the roof there is this cos
your property had a proper roof before you started?

Yup mine was a traditional joinery roof so there was not much extra to
do to make it suitable. I did take out a purlin and replace it with a
dwarf wall, and I also took out the balancing rear section of roof. This
would normally require a beam along the ridge to carry (the now
unbalanced) load of the front roof, but since I was having a dividing
wall across the middle of the space, this was made load bearing and the
dormer ceiling joists take the load of the front roof in cantilever.

With 20/20 hindsight I may have also de-tiled the whole roof and re done
all the felt and battening. That way I could have used a breathable
sarking that would have allowed use of more insulation, and also saved
titting about with ridge and soffit ventilation.

Do you understand that work of this type needs to be notified to, be
supervised by, and ultimately approved by, the building control
department of the local council?


they only told me that I have to apply for a building notice (180 GBP)
and I can start doing the conversion. I am intending to do that.

Assuming things are the same where you are, you have the choice of going
the building notice route, or the full plans submission route. The
former is good if you know what you are doing and can work out the
detail on the fly. The latter is better if you would feel happier with a
general "ok" to the major aspects of the work in advance. The full plans
submission can save you some nasty (i.e. expensive) surprises later!

Does anyone know how to do the calculations of loadings to determine
what timber you need to use?


You say you know how to calc this could you tell me how?

You need some source data: things like loadings, and joist spans, and
how the joists will share loads (if at all). Some will come from your
plans (which you need to draw or get drawn)[1], some can come from an
architectural data source book (again see links on my web site).

From those you have something you can do some calcs with, and there is
software available that will automate much of the work for you.

[1] Even if just using a building notice, don't be tempted to carry out
this sort of job without detailed drawings of what you are doing.

Hugo Nebula :


Your section appears to show that the roof is a monopitch. Is that
the case, and if so, is it supported on a load-bearing wall at the
top? If so, then you can support your new rafters (or a dormer) from
this wall to the wallplate. If not, then you would have to install a
steel beam at the ridge.


Hi I am not sure what you mean by monopitch. But as you are looking at
the picture that I drawn both on the left and on the right they are
load-bearing walls. On the top it is supported on the big trussers that
are on a LBW.

I think he is referring to your drawing of the truss structure - you
have only shown one side of the truss - i.e. it only slopes only one way
and does not have a pointy bit in the middle!


--
Cheers,

John.

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