Any ideas? Unlike most houses, getting the cable from the fuse box to
the bathroom is easy in our house. However, getting the cable to a
switch in the ceiling and then back to the shower is much more
problematic. I can get the switch easily into the cupboard with the
storage tank and wondered if this was a good idea.

Not being a plumber or electrician I would really appreciate any
thoughts on this topic. Also, is electric really the way to go? I'm
assuming their cheaper to run; we currently have a gravity fed system
but our cold water supply from the mains is good.

Thanks in anticipation of some expert advice - Bear

"nonymouse" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any ideas? Unlike most houses, getting the cable from the fuse box to
the bathroom is easy in our house. However, getting the cable to a
switch in the ceiling and then back to the shower is much more
problematic. I can get the switch easily into the cupboard with the
storage tank and wondered if this was a good idea.

Not being a plumber or electrician I would really appreciate any
thoughts on this topic. Also, is electric really the way to go? I'm
assuming their cheaper to run;

You assume incorrectly if you have a gas boiler :-) heating with electricity
is far more expencive then gas.

we currently have a gravity fed system
but our cold water supply from the mains is good.

If it were me, I would go for a power shower (rather then an electric
shower)
You would need to run a hot pipe from your hot water tank, and also a cold
water pipe from your cold water tank.
You will also need a low current electrical feed (Personally I would always
RCD protect this, although I am not sure it is against the regs to not do
so)

This type of shower pumps the water from the hot and cold feeds (so you must
NOT connect it directly to the mains water supply) they produce a much
higher flow rate then electric showers.


Sparks...

Thanks Sparks...

Do I assume correctly that most gravity fed showers can be pumped then?


Our current shower has something called a Venturi valve - apparently a
way of boosting the flow without the need for electricity. As we're
having the bathroom napalmed we thought it wise to update the shower -
but nothing is simple! Our shower ideally needs to have the pipes
exposed - and using a power shower would require two pipes running down
the wall as oppose to one (with an electric system).

Using a pump presumably does not draw too much electricity then? I know
electric showers are typically 8.5 - 10.5 Kw meaning a current draw of
around 40 amps. I have no idea how much current pumps draw (although
I'm assuming it's obviously related to their Kwattage)

"nonymouse" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Sparks...

Do I assume correctly that most gravity fed showers can be pumped then?

I can't see why not, even if your shower does not have a pump, and was never
designed to have one, adding a pump is very easy - to the shower, it's just
like having more height between it and the tank.
Adding somthin like this is fairly straight foward
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=70280

Our current shower has something called a Venturi valve - apparently a
way of boosting the flow without the need for electricity. As we're
having the bathroom napalmed we thought it wise to update the shower -
but nothing is simple! Our shower ideally needs to have the pipes
exposed - and using a power shower would require two pipes running down
the wall as oppose to one (with an electric system).

Can't you chase them in the wall if you are nuking the room anyway!?

Using a pump presumably does not draw too much electricity then? I know
electric showers are typically 8.5 - 10.5 Kw meaning a current draw of
around 40 amps. I have no idea how much current pumps draw (although
I'm assuming it's obviously related to their Kwattage)

We are talking hundreds of watts rather than thousands, so probably around
500-600 watts (2.5A)

When I do our bathroom (Gravity fed hot and cold water, like you), I will
probably have a thermostatic valve in the bathroom, and stick a shower pump
up in the loft, because:-
I don't like the idea of having a box with mains electricity in front of me
when I am naked and wet!
I don't like the look of a big box screwed on the wall when I don't have to
have one,
If the pump breaks, I expect it would be easier to replace, as it doesn't
matter if it looks different/is a different size etc.

Sparks...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
nonymouse wrote:
Any ideas? Unlike most houses, getting the cable from the fuse box to
the bathroom is easy in our house. However, getting the cable to a
switch in the ceiling and then back to the shower is much more
problematic. I can get the switch easily into the cupboard with the
storage tank and wondered if this was a good idea.

The switch must be within sight of the shower or of the type that is
lockable-off for maintenance.

A friend of mine has an electric shower, but the isolator is a switch
outside the room above the light switch for the bathroom - as this switch
can't "see" the shower (It is on the other side of the wall to the shower
unit), should this be a lockable one then?
Has there always been this requirement, as this was installed, maybe, 10
years ago.

Do you know where one could be obtained - Screfix and TLC don't seem to do
one!

Ta, and, to the OP, sorry for hijacking the thread!

Sparks...

In message , Sparks
writes

"Owain" wrote in message
...
nonymouse wrote:
Any ideas? Unlike most houses, getting the cable from the fuse box to
the bathroom is easy in our house. However, getting the cable to a
switch in the ceiling and then back to the shower is much more
problematic. I can get the switch easily into the cupboard with the
storage tank and wondered if this was a good idea.

The switch must be within sight of the shower or of the type that is
lockable-off for maintenance.

A friend of mine has an electric shower, but the isolator is a switch
outside the room above the light switch for the bathroom - as this switch
can't "see" the shower (It is on the other side of the wall to the shower
unit), should this be a lockable one then?
Has there always been this requirement, as this was installed, maybe, 10
years ago.


Pass.

Do you know where one could be obtained - Screfix and TLC don't seem to do
one!

you can Fan Isolator 3 pole switches which are lockable. Or FCU's
normally seem to have fuse holders with a hole for a padlock to lock
them
--
Chris French

.... returning to the electric versus pumped argument...I read a lot on
the Internet that suggests electric is cheaper than other types of
shower as you only heat the hot water that you are going to use.

I'm also a little concerned as during the winter we have to turn the
thermostat on our storage tank up to 70°C to get decent hot water for
our shower - and even then I wouldn't say it's as hot as we would like.


Does a pumped shower require a separate isolater switch similar to an
electric one then ...

On 28 May 2006 23:57:46 -0700 someone who may be "nonymouse"
wrote this:-

... returning to the electric versus pumped argument...I read a lot on
the Internet that suggests electric is cheaper than other types of
shower as you only heat the hot water that you are going to use.

As with most interesting things there is no simple answer. Electric
showers have relatively low flows. A gravity shower of similarly low
flow will use relatively little water and that would be heated
anyway. If the hot water cylinder is well insulated then the
electric shower is probably about the same running cost in winter,
as the water would be heated anyway. In summer the electric shower
may cost a little less, though this depends on how much water is
being heated anyway.

High flow showers can almost empty a typical hot water cylinder.
Heating this water by a gas boiler and heat exchanger will cost
about half of the price to heat it by day rate electricity.

If the water is heated by sunshine then the running cost of a high
flow shower is almost nothing, unless two people want a shower in
rapid succession.

I'm also a little concerned as during the winter we have to turn the
thermostat on our storage tank up to 70°C to get decent hot water for
our shower - and even then I wouldn't say it's as hot as we would like.

Where is the thermostat on the cylinder? What sort of system do you
have?

Does a pumped shower require a separate isolater switch similar to an
electric one then ...

Yes and no. Such things are generally best fed from the ring main
via a switched fused connection unit. The wiring and switch are
rated at rather less than half those for an electric shower.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

As far as I understand, we have a gas boiler and a gravity fed shower
system with a hot water storage tank upstairs. There is a cold water
header tank in the loft, and a separate one that supplies the
radiators.

Sorry for being a little thick here but I don't see how an electric
shower is cheaper in the Summer...surely it takes less energy (gas) to
heat the water during the summer...is this not cheaper than turning on
an electric shower (pulling potentially 45amps!) ... although granted
the shower would probably only be on for about 10 mins :-)

Oh, if I install a power shower I'm guessing there's no need to wire up
to the mixer in that the pump etc. are all isolated and presumably the
pump automatically fires up when the mixer is activated???

The switch must be within sight of the shower or of the type that is
lockable-off for maintenance.
A friend of mine has an electric shower, but the isolator is a switch
outside the room above the light switch for the bathroom - as this switch
can't "see" the shower (It is on the other side of the wall to the shower
unit), should this be a lockable one then?


It should be, so that there is no risk of someone switching on when
someone else is working on the shower.


Has there always been this requirement, as this was installed, maybe, 10
years ago.


16th Ed regulations were in force 10 years ago, so yes.


This is in reply to Owain's message 12/13 but I get a fault message
when I try to respond directly to either message.

I have just re-read BS 7671 (latest Brown cover edition) and cannot
find any reference to such a requirement, only to a general requirement
to reduce the risk of inadvertant re-connection of an isolator
(Sections 461, 462 and 537). Maybe I have missed it - can you quote
the reference please?

Incidentally, I have also checked back on the installation instructions
for a Wickes shower and a B&Q shower that I installed 5 years and 7
years ago and there was no mention in these instructions of such a
requirement either.

CRB

Owain wrote:

Inadvertant reconnection of an isolator would cover it, as would good
practice.

For motors, Electricity Regulation 11 and IEE Regulation (15th Ed) 476-5
referred.

So, as I thought, there is no such specific requirement then, either
currently or in the past.

CRB

crb wrote:

For motors, Electricity Regulation 11 and IEE Regulation (15th Ed) 476-5
referred.


So, as I thought, there is no such specific requirement then, either
currently or in the past.

panto_mode

Oh yes there is!

/panto_mode


Try 476-02-02


--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

panto_mode

Oh yes there is!


/panto_mode


Try 476-02-02

Well spotted - I missed that. So Owain was right after all - sorry
Owain!

CRB

crb wrote:

Try 476-02-02

Well spotted - I missed that. So Owain was right after all - sorry
Owain!

He usually is! ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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