DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from
the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new
combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro
(Non-condensing).
I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as
Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True?

Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how?
Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need?
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.

Thanks

Tony

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

tonyjeffs submitted this idea :
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.

The plume will depend upon the weather, as in the the outdoor
temperature and humidity - just like a cold car engine exhaust in
winter. Talking of which, the sizes of the two are quite similar.

Our opposite neighbour had one fitted recently and in cold sunny
weather I saw the plume reflected in the TV screen. I at first thought
the house had caught fire.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:47:33 -0700, tonyjeffs wrote:

After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from
the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new
combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro
(Non-condensing).
I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as
Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True?

Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how?
Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need?
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.


Have you read all the FAQs below?
Including the DIY section in the BoilerChoice FAQ?

It is possible for a competent person to change the boiler
safely enough. It is difficult for anyone (including
professionals! ) to do so and comply with _all_ the
current regulations.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from
the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new
combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro
(Non-condensing).
I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as
Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True?

Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how?
Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need?
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.

How do you propose to get BCO approval?

Peter Crosland

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

tonyjeffs wrote:

How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.

Make sure the plume isn't going to be directed towards, eg any wooden
soffits though; otherwise they'll end up being warm and damp most of the
time and will rot.

David

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

tonyjeffs wrote:

I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as
Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True?

Probably. You can download the service and install manuals for most
boilers from the makers web sites.

Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how?

Not really. The only main difference are the need to provide a drain
connection for the condensate. When you drill the flue hole you need a
sight upward slope on it.

Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need?

Over and above that required for any other boiler? Not that springs to
mind.

How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.

Worst case would be about as bad as a kettle boiling.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.

Worst case would be about as bad as a kettle boiling.

Some kettle. My brother's one is badly sited and on some days in the NE of
Scotland it completely blocks out the view from the kitchen window...

--
*Cover me. I'm changing lanes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

I'll speak to Building Control Tuesday.
Good point, Lobster re potential rotting wood. I could go out through
the wall and add a rt angle plus vertical extension flue to avoid the
eaves.
I'll consider going straight up through the ceiling and roof if I can
do it without trimming joists/rafters.
Owain, I could hire a flue gas analyser. Would it be for 'information
only', or would I be able to make adjustments in the boiler to correct
the emissions -eg adjust air/gas ratio for better combustion.

Thanks to all,

Tony

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the
Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances.

I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it
inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant.

Check with CORGI first just in case.

http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/

Nemo.




"tonyjeffs" wrote in message
oups.com...
After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from
the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new
combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro
(Non-condensing).
I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as
Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True?

Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how?
Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need?
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.

Thanks

Tony

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
nemo wrote:
Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under
the Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances.

You believe wrong.

I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have
it inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant.

Check with CORGI first just in case.

http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/

The notes on DIY on thus site is written in an ambiguous way. It implies
it may be illegal to DIY in your own house but doesn't actually say so.
Exactly what you'd expect of a paid for trade body trying to protect their
income.

You may work on gas pipework and appliances in your own home if you are
competent to do so. You are not allowed by law to do this for reward
unless a member of an approved body.

--
*Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:39:57 +0000, nemo wrote:

Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the
Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances.

I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it
inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant.

Check with CORGI first just in case.

http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/

Nemo.


Why don't you read the FAQs first.
It is difficult but not quite impossible to fit your own boiler.
The sections in the Gas Fitting and the Boiler Choice FAQs may prove
helpful.

The bottom line is that whilst the Gas Fitting is not illegal if you are
competent. Building control and the manufacturers are surmountable
stumbling blocks.


---
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
"nemo" writes:
Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the

You believe wrongly.

Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances.

Long superseded.

--
Andrew Gabriel

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:39:57 GMT, "nemo" wrote:

Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the
Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances.

I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it
inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant.

Check with CORGI first just in case.

http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/

Nemo.


Please do not top post.

Your comments are incorrect.

1) The Gas Act 1969 was superceded a log time ago by the Gas Safety
(Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.

2) Refer to Section 3 of the Statutory Instrument.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/19982451.htm

The first requirement is that one is competent.

The second requirement is that anybody doing gas fitting
professionally must be a memeber of a class of persons approved by the
HSE. In practice that does mean CORGI.

3) If you look at the information on the HSE web site and in
particular reports from meetings and studies that they have carried
out, they are fully aware that gas fitting does happen as a DIY
activity. At no point do they say that it is illegal, and also
comment that because there are little or no problems from it in terms
of accidents, it is not a priority to address it either. They are
far more interested in targetting so-called cowboy fitters and
landlords who do not pay for appliances to be maintained in good
repair.

4) CORGI are a privileged and monopoly trade organisation. One could
not expect to receive an unbiassed view from them.

Having said all of that, the emphasis is on *competent*. The
legislation does not define competence in this regard and the issue
has not been tested in court. However, if something bad were to
happen, the outcome is unpredictable, so it would be sensible to weigh
that into the pros and cons.








"tonyjeffs" wrote in message
roups.com...
After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from
the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new
combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro
(Non-condensing).
I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as
Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True?

Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how?
Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need?
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never
seen one in action.
I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that
should help keep the plume at bay.

Thanks

Tony



--

..andy

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

The message
from "nemo" contains these words:

Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the
Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances.

Then you believe wrong.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Thinking some more about the legal aspect, the legality itself is not
an issue.
The real problems are
1) Buildings Insurance (If a claim was disputed , how do you prove
'competence' in a civil court?),
and
2) Selling your Home (Do you have the correct paperwork to satisfy the
buyer's solicitors?)
Tony

Thanks everyone.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article .com,
tonyjeffs wrote:
1) Buildings Insurance (If a claim was disputed , how do you prove
'competence' in a civil court?),

How do 'they' prove who did the work? And when it was done?

--
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

tonyjeffs wrote:
Thinking some more about the legal aspect, the legality itself is not
an issue.
The real problems are
1) Buildings Insurance (If a claim was disputed , how do you prove
'competence' in a civil court?),

Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been
installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to
that, the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine
the fire brigade and/or insurance loss-adjusters would usually be able
to determine the cause of a gas or boiler-related fire, and if it proved
that poor installation was the cause, the insured may have problems if
they can't say which installer was responsible (or demonstrate that any
such predates the insured's ownership of the building.

and
2) Selling your Home (Do you have the correct paperwork to satisfy the
buyer's solicitors?)

Done to death in this ng many times!

David

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
tonyjeffs wrote:

Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been
installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to that,
the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine

Since when are qualifications necessary? Suitably qualified means just
that!

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Fred wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message
...

tonyjeffs wrote:

Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been
installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to that,
the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine


Since when are qualifications necessary? Suitably qualified means just
that!

That's semantics, but I think if you found yourself in a court of law
suing an insurance company who were refusing to pay out, I don't fancy
your chances if you tried to claim that you, a self-proclaimed
"competent" d-i-y'er, was the same thing as what the insurance company
define as a "suitable-qualified workman"?

David

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
That's semantics, but I think if you found yourself in a court of law
suing an insurance company who were refusing to pay out, I don't fancy
your chances if you tried to claim that you, a self-proclaimed
"competent" d-i-y'er, was the same thing as what the insurance company
define as a "suitable-qualified workman"?

Has an insurance company ever refused to pay a claim due to faulty DIY gas
work? Or indeed cowboy gas fitters which are *far* more common?

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Fred wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message
...

tonyjeffs wrote:

Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been
installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to
that, the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine


Since when are qualifications necessary? Suitably qualified means just
that!

That's semantics, but I think if you found yourself in a court of law
suing an insurance company who were refusing to pay out, I don't fancy
your chances if you tried to claim that you, a self-proclaimed "competent"
d-i-y'er, was the same thing as what the insurance company define as a
"suitable-qualified workman"?

David

In some respects you may be right. But if the DIYer can produce a folder of
material which covers the installation of a boiler then I doubt there would
be an issue that he wasn't competent through doing his homework etc.

In practice, apart from of course being totally incompetent, there would
have to be a secondary fault in the boiler for serious consequential damage.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

It all comes down to the building regulations. If your not a competant
person then you can make a building regulations application for the
installation of the boiler.The Council will probably ask for a report
on the installation from a Corgi or similar approved installer on your
work. The only bit as I understand it that you could not do under any
circumstances is connect the boiler to the gas supply. It is illegal to
work on the gas supply full stop unless you hold the relevant
qualifications

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

The message .com
from "norwegionblue" contains these words:

It is illegal to work on the gas supply full stop unless you hold the
relevant
qualifications

Really? Where does it say that?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article .com,
norwegionblue wrote:
It is illegal to work on the gas supply full stop unless you hold the
relevant qualifications

Don't you read any other posts here? You're wrong.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Appologies I rang CORGI tech help and he confirmed that you can diy on
gas in your own house. The work would fall under your Building Regs
application
With Home Information Packs coming in June 2007 it becomes quite
important for the home owner to get a completion cert off building
control

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Thanks All, and thanks Norwegionblue for checking with CORGI, something
i should've done. I thought (incorrectly) that they would give an
inaccurate and biased answer.

.......................
Quotes I've had:
I pointed out the proposed position of the new kitchen sink, asking
that they include water points in the quote. I don't think any of them
picked up on the possibility that the boiler might be too close to the
sink. Am I correct in thinking it must be a min of 600mm away from
any metal part of the sink & drainer.
(hypothetically, perhaps they wouldn't be technically in breach, since
the sink won't be there at the time of installation.)


I have asked for a few more quotes - and if I get a reasonable one, I
will scrap my diy plans.
I have also contacted Building Control.
They at first said I needed to contact a CORGI reg'd fitter, but
accepted my explanation and are sending me the appropriate forms.

It will be very interesting to do it myself, not just the job, but also
the legal side. It'd be a good example case for this group, and useful
to others with the same project in mind.



tony

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article .com,
norwegionblue wrote:
Appologies I rang CORGI tech help and he confirmed that you can diy on
gas in your own house.

At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be braking
the law in so doing.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be
braking the law in so doing.

Or even breaking. ;-)

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

On 2 May 2006 01:30:00 -0700, "norwegionblue"
wrote:

With Home Information Packs coming in June 2007 it becomes quite
important for the home owner to get a completion cert off building
control

Why?
--
Chris Cowley

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:25:29 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article .com,
norwegionblue wrote:
Appologies I rang CORGI tech help and he confirmed that you can diy on
gas in your own house.

At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be braking
the law in so doing.



Somebody should certainly *brake* the law....



--

..andy

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Andy Hall wrote:

Somebody should certainly *brake* the law....


I must get some therapy for myself - I still have an overwhelming
cringe
when people type "incompetAnt" - its so ironic innit?

Mungo :-)

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Mungo wrote:

I must get some therapy for myself - I still have an overwhelming
cringe
when people type "incompetAnt" - its so ironic innit?

... or even "competAnt" ... told you I must get myself some therapy!

MH

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be
braking the law in so doing.

Somebody should certainly *brake* the law....

I posted about my mistake two days ago...;-)

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article .com, Mungo
wrote:

.. or even "competAnt" ... told you I must get myself some therapy!

The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we
come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-)

--
AJL

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
In article .com, Mungo
wrote:

.. or even "competAnt" ... told you I must get myself some therapy!

The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we
come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-)

Apo's trophy?

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we
come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-)

I get many offers to "bare with me" ...

--
Andy

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Andy Wade wrote:
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we
come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-)

I get many offers to "bare with me" ...


... but definitely not under a lathe and plaster ceiling.


--
Ian White

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

Ian White wrote:
Andy Wade wrote:
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we
come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-)

I get many offers to "bare with me" ...

... but definitely not under a lathe and plaster ceiling.

"noone" (no-one).
"The car breaked hard".
"French doors".
"Dumb" (stupid).
"Meter" (metre).
"Draw" (drawer).

Ect.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

In article ,
Ian White wrote:
I get many offers to "bare with me" ...

... but definitely not under a lathe and plaster ceiling.

Indeed not. Imagine the size of the joists.

--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
 

The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words:

"noone" (no-one).
"The car breaked hard".
"French doors".
"Dumb" (stupid).
"Meter" (metre).
"Draw" (drawer).

From one of the local FreeCycle groups...

"wanted wardrobe +chester drawes; my daughters chesterdrawes has fell
too pices the wardrobe the chip has gone to dust iam in bedworth; can
collect distends no truble"

You couldn't make it up, could you?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.