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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro (Non-condensing). I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True? Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how? Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need? How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. Thanks Tony |
#2
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
tonyjeffs submitted this idea :
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. The plume will depend upon the weather, as in the the outdoor temperature and humidity - just like a cold car engine exhaust in winter. Talking of which, the sizes of the two are quite similar. Our opposite neighbour had one fitted recently and in cold sunny weather I saw the plume reflected in the TV screen. I at first thought the house had caught fire. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk |
#3
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:47:33 -0700, tonyjeffs wrote:
After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler, in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro (Non-condensing). I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True? Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how? Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need? How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. Have you read all the FAQs below? Including the DIY section in the BoilerChoice FAQ? It is possible for a competent person to change the boiler safely enough. It is difficult for anyone (including professionals! ) to do so and comply with _all_ the current regulations. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html |
#4
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler,
in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro (Non-condensing). I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True? Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how? Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need? How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. How do you propose to get BCO approval? Peter Crosland |
#5
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
tonyjeffs wrote:
How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. Make sure the plume isn't going to be directed towards, eg any wooden soffits though; otherwise they'll end up being warm and damp most of the time and will rot. David |
#6
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
tonyjeffs wrote:
I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True? Probably. You can download the service and install manuals for most boilers from the makers web sites. Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how? Not really. The only main difference are the need to provide a drain connection for the condensate. When you drill the flue hole you need a sight upward slope on it. Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need? Over and above that required for any other boiler? Not that springs to mind. How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. Worst case would be about as bad as a kettle boiling. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#7
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
John Rumm wrote: How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. Worst case would be about as bad as a kettle boiling. Some kettle. My brother's one is badly sited and on some days in the NE of Scotland it completely blocks out the view from the kitchen window... -- *Cover me. I'm changing lanes. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#8
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
I'll speak to Building Control Tuesday.
Good point, Lobster re potential rotting wood. I could go out through the wall and add a rt angle plus vertical extension flue to avoid the eaves. I'll consider going straight up through the ceiling and roof if I can do it without trimming joists/rafters. Owain, I could hire a flue gas analyser. Would it be for 'information only', or would I be able to make adjustments in the boiler to correct the emissions -eg adjust air/gas ratio for better combustion. Thanks to all, Tony |
#9
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the
Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances. I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant. Check with CORGI first just in case. http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/ Nemo. "tonyjeffs" wrote in message oups.com... After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler, in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro (Non-condensing). I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True? Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how? Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need? How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. Thanks Tony |
#10
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
nemo wrote: Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances. You believe wrong. I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant. Check with CORGI first just in case. http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/ The notes on DIY on thus site is written in an ambiguous way. It implies it may be illegal to DIY in your own house but doesn't actually say so. Exactly what you'd expect of a paid for trade body trying to protect their income. You may work on gas pipework and appliances in your own home if you are competent to do so. You are not allowed by law to do this for reward unless a member of an approved body. -- *Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#11
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:39:57 +0000, nemo wrote:
Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances. I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant. Check with CORGI first just in case. http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/ Nemo. Why don't you read the FAQs first. It is difficult but not quite impossible to fit your own boiler. The sections in the Gas Fitting and the Boiler Choice FAQs may prove helpful. The bottom line is that whilst the Gas Fitting is not illegal if you are competent. Building control and the manufacturers are surmountable stumbling blocks. --- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html |
#12
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
"nemo" writes: Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the You believe wrongly. Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances. Long superseded. -- Andrew Gabriel |
#13
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:39:57 GMT, "nemo" wrote:
Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances. I'm not sure, but you may be able to do the job if you undertake to have it inspected afterwards. This might be what the HSE website meant. Check with CORGI first just in case. http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/ Nemo. Please do not top post. Your comments are incorrect. 1) The Gas Act 1969 was superceded a log time ago by the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. 2) Refer to Section 3 of the Statutory Instrument. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/19982451.htm The first requirement is that one is competent. The second requirement is that anybody doing gas fitting professionally must be a memeber of a class of persons approved by the HSE. In practice that does mean CORGI. 3) If you look at the information on the HSE web site and in particular reports from meetings and studies that they have carried out, they are fully aware that gas fitting does happen as a DIY activity. At no point do they say that it is illegal, and also comment that because there are little or no problems from it in terms of accidents, it is not a priority to address it either. They are far more interested in targetting so-called cowboy fitters and landlords who do not pay for appliances to be maintained in good repair. 4) CORGI are a privileged and monopoly trade organisation. One could not expect to receive an unbiassed view from them. Having said all of that, the emphasis is on *competent*. The legislation does not define competence in this regard and the issue has not been tested in court. However, if something bad were to happen, the outcome is unpredictable, so it would be sensible to weigh that into the pros and cons. "tonyjeffs" wrote in message roups.com... After receiving some incredibly high quotes for replacing the boiler, in a different position, and having established ftom the FAQ, and from the H&S website that it isn't illegal, I'm going to fit my own new combi boiler. I'm sure I'd have no trouble fitting an Ariston Micro (Non-condensing). I haven't examined others, but imagine most standard combis such as Bosch Worcester are similar to fit. True? Is a condensing boiler significantly more tricky to fit? If so, how? Is there additional specialist equipment that I'd need? How big & intrusive is the plume from a condensing boiler? I've never seen one in action. I will fit it as close as allowed to eaves level (first floor), so that should help keep the plume at bay. Thanks Tony -- ..andy |
#14
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
The message
from "nemo" contains these words: Unless you're CORGI qualified, I believe it's a criminal offence under the Gas Act 1969 to fit your own gas appliances. Then you believe wrong. -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#15
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Thinking some more about the legal aspect, the legality itself is not
an issue. The real problems are 1) Buildings Insurance (If a claim was disputed , how do you prove 'competence' in a civil court?), and 2) Selling your Home (Do you have the correct paperwork to satisfy the buyer's solicitors?) Tony Thanks everyone. |
#16
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article .com,
tonyjeffs wrote: 1) Buildings Insurance (If a claim was disputed , how do you prove 'competence' in a civil court?), How do 'they' prove who did the work? And when it was done? -- *Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#17
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
tonyjeffs wrote:
Thinking some more about the legal aspect, the legality itself is not an issue. The real problems are 1) Buildings Insurance (If a claim was disputed , how do you prove 'competence' in a civil court?), Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to that, the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine the fire brigade and/or insurance loss-adjusters would usually be able to determine the cause of a gas or boiler-related fire, and if it proved that poor installation was the cause, the insured may have problems if they can't say which installer was responsible (or demonstrate that any such predates the insured's ownership of the building. and 2) Selling your Home (Do you have the correct paperwork to satisfy the buyer's solicitors?) Done to death in this ng many times! David |
#18
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
"Lobster" wrote in message ... tonyjeffs wrote: Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to that, the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine Since when are qualifications necessary? Suitably qualified means just that! |
#19
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Fred wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message ... tonyjeffs wrote: Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to that, the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine Since when are qualifications necessary? Suitably qualified means just that! That's semantics, but I think if you found yourself in a court of law suing an insurance company who were refusing to pay out, I don't fancy your chances if you tried to claim that you, a self-proclaimed "competent" d-i-y'er, was the same thing as what the insurance company define as a "suitable-qualified workman"? David |
#20
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
Lobster wrote: That's semantics, but I think if you found yourself in a court of law suing an insurance company who were refusing to pay out, I don't fancy your chances if you tried to claim that you, a self-proclaimed "competent" d-i-y'er, was the same thing as what the insurance company define as a "suitable-qualified workman"? Has an insurance company ever refused to pay a claim due to faulty DIY gas work? Or indeed cowboy gas fitters which are *far* more common? -- *Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#21
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
"Lobster" wrote in message ... Fred wrote: "Lobster" wrote in message ... tonyjeffs wrote: Well my buildings insurance excludes "systems... which have not been installed or fitted by a suitably-qualified workman" so according to that, the "competency" issue is not relevant to the claim. I imagine Since when are qualifications necessary? Suitably qualified means just that! That's semantics, but I think if you found yourself in a court of law suing an insurance company who were refusing to pay out, I don't fancy your chances if you tried to claim that you, a self-proclaimed "competent" d-i-y'er, was the same thing as what the insurance company define as a "suitable-qualified workman"? David In some respects you may be right. But if the DIYer can produce a folder of material which covers the installation of a boiler then I doubt there would be an issue that he wasn't competent through doing his homework etc. In practice, apart from of course being totally incompetent, there would have to be a secondary fault in the boiler for serious consequential damage. |
#22
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
It all comes down to the building regulations. If your not a competant
person then you can make a building regulations application for the installation of the boiler.The Council will probably ask for a report on the installation from a Corgi or similar approved installer on your work. The only bit as I understand it that you could not do under any circumstances is connect the boiler to the gas supply. It is illegal to work on the gas supply full stop unless you hold the relevant qualifications |
#23
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
The message .com
from "norwegionblue" contains these words: It is illegal to work on the gas supply full stop unless you hold the relevant qualifications Really? Where does it say that? -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
#24
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article .com,
norwegionblue wrote: It is illegal to work on the gas supply full stop unless you hold the relevant qualifications Don't you read any other posts here? You're wrong. -- *Why is the word abbreviation so long? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#25
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Appologies I rang CORGI tech help and he confirmed that you can diy on
gas in your own house. The work would fall under your Building Regs application With Home Information Packs coming in June 2007 it becomes quite important for the home owner to get a completion cert off building control |
#26
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Thanks All, and thanks Norwegionblue for checking with CORGI, something
i should've done. I thought (incorrectly) that they would give an inaccurate and biased answer. ....................... Quotes I've had: I pointed out the proposed position of the new kitchen sink, asking that they include water points in the quote. I don't think any of them picked up on the possibility that the boiler might be too close to the sink. Am I correct in thinking it must be a min of 600mm away from any metal part of the sink & drainer. (hypothetically, perhaps they wouldn't be technically in breach, since the sink won't be there at the time of installation.) I have asked for a few more quotes - and if I get a reasonable one, I will scrap my diy plans. I have also contacted Building Control. They at first said I needed to contact a CORGI reg'd fitter, but accepted my explanation and are sending me the appropriate forms. It will be very interesting to do it myself, not just the job, but also the legal side. It'd be a good example case for this group, and useful to others with the same project in mind. tony |
#27
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article .com,
norwegionblue wrote: Appologies I rang CORGI tech help and he confirmed that you can diy on gas in your own house. At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be braking the law in so doing. -- *Virtual reality is its own reward* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#28
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be braking the law in so doing. Or even breaking. ;-) -- *Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#29
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
On 2 May 2006 01:30:00 -0700, "norwegionblue"
wrote: With Home Information Packs coming in June 2007 it becomes quite important for the home owner to get a completion cert off building control Why? -- Chris Cowley |
#30
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:25:29 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article .com, norwegionblue wrote: Appologies I rang CORGI tech help and he confirmed that you can diy on gas in your own house. At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be braking the law in so doing. Somebody should certainly *brake* the law.... -- ..andy |
#31
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Andy Hall wrote: Somebody should certainly *brake* the law.... I must get some therapy for myself - I still have an overwhelming cringe when people type "incompetAnt" - its so ironic innit? Mungo :-) |
#32
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Mungo wrote: I must get some therapy for myself - I still have an overwhelming cringe when people type "incompetAnt" - its so ironic innit? ... or even "competAnt" ... told you I must get myself some therapy! MH |
#33
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: At least that's an improvement. Their website implies you might be braking the law in so doing. Somebody should certainly *brake* the law.... I posted about my mistake two days ago...;-) -- *Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#34
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article .com, Mungo
wrote: .. or even "competAnt" ... told you I must get myself some therapy! The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-) -- AJL |
#35
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote: In article .com, Mungo wrote: .. or even "competAnt" ... told you I must get myself some therapy! The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-) Apo's trophy? -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing |
#36
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-) I get many offers to "bare with me" ... -- Andy |
#37
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Andy Wade wrote:
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote: The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-) I get many offers to "bare with me" ... ... but definitely not under a lathe and plaster ceiling. -- Ian White |
#38
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
Ian White wrote:
Andy Wade wrote: Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote: The ones that never cease to irritate me are "Lose" and "Loose". Then we come to the "market trader's apostrophe". :-) I get many offers to "bare with me" ... ... but definitely not under a lathe and plaster ceiling. "noone" (no-one). "The car breaked hard". "French doors". "Dumb" (stupid). "Meter" (metre). "Draw" (drawer). Ect. |
#39
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
In article ,
Ian White wrote: I get many offers to "bare with me" ... ... but definitely not under a lathe and plaster ceiling. Indeed not. Imagine the size of the joists. -- *Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#40
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DIY Fitting Gas Combi (condensing?) Boiler
The message
from Chris Bacon contains these words: "noone" (no-one). "The car breaked hard". "French doors". "Dumb" (stupid). "Meter" (metre). "Draw" (drawer). From one of the local FreeCycle groups... "wanted wardrobe +chester drawes; my daughters chesterdrawes has fell too pices the wardrobe the chip has gone to dust iam in bedworth; can collect distends no truble" You couldn't make it up, could you? -- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. |
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