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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
I've got an eberspacher heater for my motorhome, runs on diesel, but at
almost a quid a litre i'm not happy running it on road diesel, red diesel is apparantly not recomended for these heaters, lots of problems running on red, and at a grand for the heater, if eberspacher say dont use red diesel, then i'm not gonna use red. they do say you can use paraffin tho, however it seems no where sells paraffin from a pump anymore, all i can get is a 4 litre bottle of the stuff for a daft price, i'm fitting a 45 litre tank for the heater fuel, so a couple of 25 litre drum of paraffin would do, but where do you get it from, bulk paraffin means 500 litres or more it seems when searching for paraffin in bulk, don't quite want that much. i'm near nottingham, but will travel to get the tank filled if there is a place that pumps paraffin left anywhere in the midlands, or on the way dfown south to dover as that's where i'm going in 2 weeks. |
#2
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
CampinGazz wrote:
I've got an eberspacher heater for my motorhome, runs on diesel, but at almost a quid a litre i'm not happy running it on road diesel, red diesel is apparantly not recomended for these heaters, lots of problems running on red, and at a grand for the heater, if eberspacher say dont use red diesel, then i'm not gonna use red. There are various grades of diesel. they do say you can use paraffin tho, 'Phone your local oil fuel distributer/supplier, who will tell you about diesel (ask about the "char value", and tell them what you're thinking of putting it in). You should be able to get paraffin at £0.65/L (I enquired a month or two ago). |
#3
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
CampinGazz wrote in message ... however it seems no where sells paraffin from a pump anymore, all i can get is a 4 litre bottle of the stuff for a daft price, Im surprised by that, my local (independent) petrol station has both paraffin and red (gas oil) diesel pumps on the forecourt Perhaps you need to have a drive out into the countryside and find a non essobpshellelf garage. im in Sussex which would Probably be too far... ;-( - |
#4
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
"CampinGazz" wrote in message ... I've got an eberspacher heater for my motorhome, runs on diesel, but at almost a quid a litre i'm not happy running it on road diesel, red diesel is apparantly not recomended for these heaters, lots of problems running on red, and at a grand for the heater, if eberspacher say dont use red diesel, then i'm not gonna use red. they do say you can use paraffin tho, however it seems no where sells paraffin from a pump anymore, all i can get is a 4 litre bottle of the stuff for a daft price, i'm fitting a 45 litre tank for the heater fuel, so a couple of 25 litre drum of paraffin would do, but where do you get it from, bulk paraffin means 500 litres or more it seems when searching for paraffin in bulk, don't quite want that much. i'm near nottingham, but will travel to get the tank filled if there is a place that pumps paraffin left anywhere in the midlands, or on the way dfown south to dover as that's where i'm going in 2 weeks. www.yell.com type in 'oil fuel' and 'nottingham' which will bring up all the oil fuel distributors. Paraffin is often called kerosene now or PBO (premium burning oil). I use it in my parts cleaning tank and just take an empty 25 litre drum to the local supplier when I need a refill. It ain't hard stuff to find. -- Dave Baker www.pumaracing.co.uk |
#5
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
Dave Baker wrote:
"CampinGazz" wrote in message ... I've got an eberspacher heater for my motorhome, runs on diesel, but at almost a quid a litre i'm not happy running it on road diesel, red diesel is apparantly not recomended for these heaters, lots of problems running on red, and at a grand for the heater, if eberspacher say dont use red diesel, then i'm not gonna use red. they do say you can use paraffin tho, however it seems no where sells paraffin from a pump anymore, all i can get is a 4 litre bottle of the stuff for a daft price, i'm fitting a 45 litre tank for the heater fuel, so a couple of 25 litre drum of paraffin would do, but where do you get it from, bulk paraffin means 500 litres or more it seems when searching for paraffin in bulk, don't quite want that much. i'm near nottingham, but will travel to get the tank filled if there is a place that pumps paraffin left anywhere in the midlands, or on the way dfown south to dover as that's where i'm going in 2 weeks. www.yell.com type in 'oil fuel' and 'nottingham' which will bring up all the oil fuel distributors. Paraffin is often called kerosene now or PBO (premium burning oil). I use it in my parts cleaning tank and just take an empty 25 litre drum to the local supplier when I need a refill. It ain't hard stuff to find. Thats what I thought...its what I run my central heating on? Or can do..I think its 'light fuel oil' or something like that. |
#6
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... Dave Baker wrote: "CampinGazz" wrote in message ... Paraffin is often called kerosene now or PBO (premium burning oil). I use it in my parts cleaning tank and just take an empty 25 litre drum to the local supplier when I need a refill. It ain't hard stuff to find. Thats what I thought...its what I run my central heating on? Or can do..I think its 'light fuel oil' or something like that. Ahha, that's what i was thinking last night, other names for the stuff, Guess i need to pop over to chandlers oil and gas up the road and see if they can help this time, never have been able before when i was after an argon/co2 gas mix for the mig welder, they seemed to have every other gas but an argon mix, There are a few places that have the old parafin pumps on the forecourts, but they've all been de-commsioned years ago, all these new regs mean the old pumps arent accurate enough it seems, and it's not worth the expence for a new pump when they can sell gallon cans of the stuff for 6 times the price, they rekon most people want it for those garden lamps anyway, or a little bit for the greenhouse heater, not 45 litres at a time into a tank mounted on a vehicle. I'm weary of running the heater on red diesel, there's lots of doccumented problems on the canal boating forums about the problems, coking up of the heater when run on red, one person had a brand new boat with a D10w heater in it, his is a live aboard and he was getting about a month of use before the thing coked up and wouldent fire, eberspacher came out lots of times and kept warning him that it's keep happening if he continued to run on red, there's even bulitens out from eberspacher saying not to use red with their heaters, but apparantly only the boat builders get these, not the general public. I know canal diesel is supposed to be worse than road diesel, the red variety that is, but when my local garage that sells red diesel dosent even know what's at the pump nozzle, price board says gas oil, pump says red diesel, the 2 are different oils, one's heating oil, the other's road diesel with red dye and none of the addetives in it, It does seem there are different internals to these heaters, i have the D5ws, 12 volt version, the eberspacher docs that came with the heater that specified what fuels to use (white road diesel and parafin for my heater) say you can run the 24 volt version of this heater on bio-diesel, but not the 12 volt version, yet no explnation why, Which is why i'm fitting a seperate tank in the first place, as i run my van's engine on bio-diesel for about 5 months of the year when i'm living in it abroad, |
#7
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
"CampinGazz" wrote in message
news I know canal diesel is supposed to be worse than road diesel, the red variety that is, but when my local garage that sells red diesel dosent even know what's at the pump nozzle, price board says gas oil, pump says red diesel, the 2 are different oils, one's heating oil, the other's road diesel with red dye and none of the addetives in it, I don't think you'll find any clear idea of the difference between 'red diesel' and 'gas oil' and '35 second oil', because almost everyone treats them as synonyms. The stuff is white diesel with a red dye and another tracer added. There is no 'road variety' of red diesel, and there is no distinction between the 'heating fuel' (domestically, people don't tend to heat with 35-second oil nowadays) and the 'road diesel with additives'. At a certain point in the distribution chain (it used to be surprisingly close to the end-user, I don't know if it still is), red diesel is made from white diesel by adding the dye and tracer and performing the appropriate bits of tax-related paperwork. I would be interested to read Eberspacher's precise words on this - at first glance, it seems a little unlikely that there would be something in red diesel which didn't harm a modern tractor engine but did harm something as simple as a space heater. Do you have a reference? But if it burns kerosene (28-second oil, burning oil), then I'm sure you'll find that cleaner - and if nothing else you'll be saving a few pence per litre in duty. It still has the tracer additive, and I think it's dyed nowadays - just not red) Basically: "Gas oil" is "35 second oil" is "red diesel" "Burning oil" is "28 second oil" is "kerosene" Will |
#8
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
Andy wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote 'Phone your local oil fuel distributer/supplier, who will tell you about diesel (ask about the "char value", and tell them what you're thinking of putting it in). You should be able to get paraffin at £0.65/L (I enquired a month or two ago). I've seen it sold in 20 litre blue plastic containers, at about 85p/litre in a country sell-everything emporium, but not near Nottingham. The £0.65/L is based on filling up your own container which you take along to a proper oil distributor (who delivers domestic fuel, etc.). |
#9
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Baker wrote: Paraffin is often called kerosene now or PBO (premium burning oil). Thats what I thought...its what I run my central heating on? Or can do..I think its 'light fuel oil' or something like that. Paraffin is not the same as domestic heating oil. |
#10
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
Chris Bacon wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Dave Baker wrote: Paraffin is often called kerosene now or PBO (premium burning oil). Thats what I thought...its what I run my central heating on? Or can do..I think its 'light fuel oil' or something like that. Paraffin is not the same as domestic heating oil. well, I run an Aga, and that needs the lighter grade - 28sec? something like that..and its a lot better in a wick/vaporizer burner than standard CH 'diesel'; and is noticeably different. Doesn't coke up so much. Jet fuel is pretty much similar too..paraffin as such is a very vague term. Its all various mixes of long chain hydrocarbons anyway. |
#11
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote: Paraffin is not the same as domestic heating oil. well, I run an Aga, and that needs the lighter grade - 28sec? something like that..and its a lot better in a wick/vaporizer burner than standard CH 'diesel'; and is noticeably different. Doesn't coke up so much. It depends on the "char value" - fuels with a higher value will clog wicks faster. Paraffin has a lower char value than central heating fuel. Is your Aga one designed for heating oil, or a converted one with a wick? Jet fuel is pretty much similar too..paraffin as such is a very vague term. Paraffin is only a vague term now that terminology is being abused. Its all various mixes of long chain hydrocarbons anyway. Longer than some, shorter than others! P.S. I thought you said I was in your killfile? Perhaps it was someone else. |
#12
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "CampinGazz" saying something like: i'm fitting a 45 litre tank for the heater fuel, so a couple of 25 litre drum of paraffin would do, but where do you get it from, bulk paraffin means 500 litres or more it seems when searching for paraffin in bulk, don't quite want that much. i'm near nottingham, but will travel to get the tank filled if there is a place that pumps paraffin left anywhere in the midlands, or on the way dfown south to dover as that's where i'm going in 2 weeks. Why not pay someone to allow you to siphon off a few gallons of heating kerosene? -- Dave |
#13
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
"Chris Bacon" wrote in message ... Andy wrote: "Chris Bacon" wrote 'Phone your local oil fuel distributer/supplier, who will tell you about diesel (ask about the "char value", and tell them what you're thinking of putting it in). You should be able to get paraffin at £0.65/L (I enquired a month or two ago). I've seen it sold in 20 litre blue plastic containers, at about 85p/litre in a country sell-everything emporium, but not near Nottingham. The £0.65/L is based on filling up your own container which you take along to a proper oil distributor (who delivers domestic fuel, etc.). If i wasnt so busy today i'd have niped upto chandlers oil and gas in town and seen what they do, as they do heating oil in bulk deliveries, so they must do parafin, kerosene, 28 sec oil or what ever it's called, i wonder how they'll be with me wanting to fill a tank that's fitted to the motorhome, i guess a diesel engine wont run on 28 sec oil, so hopefully they wont refuse because they think i'm running the engine on it, 45 litres wont get me very far anyway, the engine tanks take 140 litres, and the parafin tank will be right at the back of the van, on the oposite side to the engine fuel tanks. But i guess if they do get stroppy, i'll have to buy a 25 litre jerry can, park up outside the dopot, walk in and fill it, walk out and empty it into the tank, walk back in and fill it once more, and that's my onboard tank filled (well, overflowed if i empty all of the last can in) |
#14
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
CampinGazz wrote:
"Chris Bacon" wrote The £0.65/L is based on filling up your own container which you take along to a proper oil distributor (who delivers domestic fuel, etc.). i wonder how they'll be with me wanting to fill a tank that's fitted to the motorhome, i guess a diesel engine wont run on 28 sec oil, so hopefully they wont refuse because they think i'm running the engine on it, 45 litres wont get me very far anyway, the engine tanks take 140 litres, and the parafin tank will be right at the back of the van, on the oposite side to the engine fuel tanks. It's not up to them - anyway, you are not doing anything underhand. You may need a container anyway, some outlets ("back of a garage") that I've used have a tank of paraffin with a cock on the bottom, and no measuring gear! |
#15
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:49:58 +0100, Will Dean wrote:
I would be interested to read Eberspacher's precise words on this - at first glance, it seems a little unlikely that there would be something in red diesel which didn't harm a modern tractor engine but did harm something as simple as a space heater. Do you have a reference? Agreed, if it runs fine on road duty paid "white" diesel it should run fine on rebated red diesel. But if it burns kerosene (28-second oil, burning oil), then I'm sure you'll find that cleaner - And I can see if the heater is designed to run on 28 sec (domestic heating oil, kerosene) that running it on 35sec may well cause problems with coking up. I suspect it that a simple adjustment and/or a different jet is all that would be required to change the fuel requirement. It still has the tracer additive, and I think it's dyed nowadays - just not red) 28sec is now yellow and also has "invisible" tracers as well like red. "Gas oil" is "35 second oil" is "red diesel" and is road diesel when the duty has been applied but not the dye and tracers. "Burning oil" is "28 second oil" is "kerosene" and is parafin. Though stuff for lamps/room heaters etc might be better refined and have a perfume added. The "28 second" and "35 second" refer to a viscosity test, how long it takes a standard quantity of the oil to flow through a standard hole in a standard container. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
#16
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
Chris Bacon wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote: Chris Bacon wrote: Paraffin is not the same as domestic heating oil. well, I run an Aga, and that needs the lighter grade - 28sec? something like that..and its a lot better in a wick/vaporizer burner than standard CH 'diesel'; and is noticeably different. Doesn't coke up so much. It depends on the "char value" - fuels with a higher value will clog wicks faster. Paraffin has a lower char value than central heating fuel. Is your Aga one designed for heating oil, or a converted one with a wick? I haven't a clue. Like all oil burning agas it has a wick to start it, but works by vaporising the oil once its actually hot. Its brand new - well 4 years old.. I do know that I have to burn a slightly lighter grade of oil than the boiler would otherwise tolerate/ Jet fuel is pretty much similar too..paraffin as such is a very vague term. Paraffin is only a vague term now that terminology is being abused. Its all various mixes of long chain hydrocarbons anyway. Longer than some, shorter than others! Exactly. P.S. I thought you said I was in your killfile? Perhaps it was someone else. No, only Drivel |
#17
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
CampinGazz wrote:
i guess a diesel engine wont run on 28 sec oil, Diesels run on almost anything. In the paraffin/kerosene/central heating oil/JP-whatever military fuel for everything-that-moves-in-NATO etc etc. I certainly have a friend who regularly tops up his car from his central heating tank... |
#18
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paraffin in larger than gallon cans
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:49:58 +0100, Will Dean wrote: I would be interested to read Eberspacher's precise words on this - at first glance, it seems a little unlikely that there would be something in red diesel which didn't harm a modern tractor engine but did harm something as simple as a space heater. Do you have a reference? Agreed, if it runs fine on road duty paid "white" diesel it should run fine on rebated red diesel. But if it burns kerosene (28-second oil, burning oil), then I'm sure you'll find that cleaner - And I can see if the heater is designed to run on 28 sec (domestic heating oil, kerosene) that running it on 35sec may well cause problems with coking up. I suspect it that a simple adjustment and/or a different jet is all that would be required to change the fuel requirement. It still has the tracer additive, and I think it's dyed nowadays - just not red) 28sec is now yellow and also has "invisible" tracers as well like red. "Gas oil" is "35 second oil" is "red diesel" and is road diesel when the duty has been applied but not the dye and tracers. "Burning oil" is "28 second oil" is "kerosene" and is parafin. Though stuff for lamps/room heaters etc might be better refined and have a perfume added. The "28 second" and "35 second" refer to a viscosity test, how long it takes a standard quantity of the oil to flow through a standard hole in a standard container. Right. Useful explanation of the nomenclature. Agas coke up anyway, even on 28sec, bit they coke up faster on 35 sec, and may run into problems with gravity feed on cold weather. |
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