Hi,

I have a Menvier TS2500 alarm panel.

It supports fire detection zones, but I can only find 24v detectors.
Are there 12v smoke and heat detectors available? or do I need to install a
separate 24v power supply?

For the kitchen, should I install a rate of rise heat detector, or a fixed
one?

Do I install a detector in the loft - if so, what type would be the best bet
(It's all boarded, so not particularly dusty - it is a converted bungalow,
so the loft space is quite limited, and hoes all around the two rooms up
there, so I would guess I would need 4-5 detectors if that is worth doing.

Is it best to have a detector in every room, or just the bedrooms and hall?
I guess I wouldn't put one in the bathroom as it is humid, and there isn't
that much chance of a fire in there anyway.

We currently have 2 battery operated standalone smoke alarms in the house,
one at the top of the stairs, and one in the hall near the kitchen as these
are pretty old, I was going to replace them anyway, so I though it would be
a good idea to just use the alarm panel to do everything.
I set a normal PIR up as a fire zone, and when it was triggered, the
internal sounder made a different noise to a normal alarm noise, and it
pulses the external sounders all with the system unset - so this looks like
it works to me!
(I have loads of spare AUX outputs too, so I can wire in additional fire
only sounders if required)

Do I need to use Firetuf cables for the fire detectors, sounders & power
feed to panel?
If I need to use it for the power feed, should I take it all the way back to
the CU (I currently have a radial that serves the Fridge, freezer and alarm)

Thanks for any pointers!

Sparks...

Sparks wrote:
Hi,

I have a Menvier TS2500 alarm panel.

It supports fire detection zones, but I can only find 24v detectors.
Are there 12v smoke and heat detectors available? or do I need to install a
separate 24v power supply?

Its an American site but it may help
http://www.hometech.com/learn/smoke.html and by using Google I found 12
v detectors at http://www.safelincs.co.uk/search.php?xSearch=12+volt
There must be more where they came from.
Brian H

In article ,
"Sparks" writes:
Hi,

I have a Menvier TS2500 alarm panel.

It supports fire detection zones, but I can only find 24v detectors.
Are there 12v smoke and heat detectors available? or do I need to install a
separate 24v power supply?

Don't know if a 12V panel would support 24V detectors with
separate PSU -- it might not. Most fire detectors are 24V,
but (unsurprisingly) Menvier do make 12V ones, and ISTR
that CPC stock them (I've got one of their optical ones).

CPC also do a PP3-sized circuit board which you can fit
into PP3 battery powered smoke detectors to run them from
a 12V burglar alarm system. However, do check it works in
your particular smoke detector -- I found they don't work
in all EI ones which are a common make. Test with smoke or
smoke detector spray, not the test button (which does work).

Note that if you require this alarm for regulatory reasons,
you must use the accessories which are designed to work
with it to meet the relevant British Standards.

For the kitchen, should I install a rate of rise heat detector, or a fixed
one?

Do I install a detector in the loft - if so, what type would be the best bet

I asked this about 5 years ago. Answer was rate of rise heat detector
in kitchen and fixed one in the loft, but I don't recall the reasoning.

(It's all boarded, so not particularly dusty - it is a converted bungalow,
so the loft space is quite limited, and hoes all around the two rooms up
there, so I would guess I would need 4-5 detectors if that is worth doing.

Usually just one at about 12" below the apex.

Is it best to have a detector in every room, or just the bedrooms and hall?
I guess I wouldn't put one in the bathroom as it is humid, and there isn't
that much chance of a fire in there anyway.

We currently have 2 battery operated standalone smoke alarms in the house,
one at the top of the stairs, and one in the hall near the kitchen as these

Top of stairs is the most important position, followed by bedrooms
of any smokers.

are pretty old, I was going to replace them anyway, so I though it would be
a good idea to just use the alarm panel to do everything.
I set a normal PIR up as a fire zone, and when it was triggered, the
internal sounder made a different noise to a normal alarm noise, and it
pulses the external sounders all with the system unset - so this looks like
it works to me!

My burglar alarm does this too. The fire sequence is a repeating
pattern of 3 blasts with the 4th blast missing. I believe this is
a standard fire signal in the US.

(I have loads of spare AUX outputs too, so I can wire in additional fire
only sounders if required)

In which case, the fire detection system presumably depends on
you programming the panel correctly?

Do I need to use Firetuf cables for the fire detectors, sounders & power
feed to panel?

Probably depends on what regulations you are trying to meet, but
fire alarms in houses are not normally connected with Firetuf.

If I need to use it for the power feed, should I take it all the way back to
the CU (I currently have a radial that serves the Fridge, freezer and alarm)

Sounds fine to me, but I'm horribly out of date on current fire
alarm regs.

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 18:39:37 +0100 someone who may be "Sparks"
wrote this:-

Is it best to have a detector in every room, or just the bedrooms and hall?

It is best to have them in every occupied room and the hallways.
Whether it is worthwhile depends on your views on the amount of work
you want to do, assuming there are no unusual legal requirements on
the house.

Do I need to use Firetuf cables for the fire detectors, sounders

Pyro (Mineral Insulated, MICC) is the cable to use if you are
serious about the fire alarm functions. Get the tools to make the
joints and practice if you have not made them before. Personally I
wouldn't go for anything else, but I'm old fashioned.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technica...FireAlarm4.htm is
a good guide to the various options for cabling, should you not wish
to go for the best.

& power feed to panel?

Not really, though it can look better to have the same sort of cable
as the feed. The panel should have a battery that will keep the
whole system going for some time.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Sparks" writes:
Hi,

I have a Menvier TS2500 alarm panel.

It supports fire detection zones, but I can only find 24v detectors.
Are there 12v smoke and heat detectors available? or do I need to install
a
separate 24v power supply?

Don't know if a 12V panel would support 24V detectors with
separate PSU -- it might not. Most fire detectors are 24V,
but (unsurprisingly) Menvier do make 12V ones, and ISTR
that CPC stock them (I've got one of their optical ones).

Ah, thanks, found a smoke one on page 1688, I will ask them if they can get
the heat ones.

CPC also do a PP3-sized circuit board which you can fit
into PP3 battery powered smoke detectors to run them from
a 12V burglar alarm system. However, do check it works in
your particular smoke detector -- I found they don't work
in all EI ones which are a common make. Test with smoke or
smoke detector spray, not the test button (which does work).

The current detectors are more than 15 years old, so I think they are in
need of replacement now!
I guess these boards just power the detectors?
I want somthing linked to the alarm - It has an SD1+ Speech dialler on it,
so I will connect a second input to this so it can call me and tell me the
house is burning :-)

Note that if you require this alarm for regulatory reasons,
you must use the accessories which are designed to work
with it to meet the relevant British Standards.

No, just peace of mind really, but would like to do a proper job.

For the kitchen, should I install a rate of rise heat detector, or a
fixed
one?

Do I install a detector in the loft - if so, what type would be the best
bet

I asked this about 5 years ago. Answer was rate of rise heat detector
in kitchen and fixed one in the loft, but I don't recall the reasoning.

Okay, thanks.

(It's all boarded, so not particularly dusty - it is a converted
bungalow,
so the loft space is quite limited, and hoes all around the two rooms up
there, so I would guess I would need 4-5 detectors if that is worth
doing.

Usually just one at about 12" below the apex.

I can't do that, as there are two rooms up there, the loft space is ablout 1
meter wide, all around the perimiter (with a door to if from both rooms)

Is it best to have a detector in every room, or just the bedrooms and
hall?
I guess I wouldn't put one in the bathroom as it is humid, and there
isn't
that much chance of a fire in there anyway.

We currently have 2 battery operated standalone smoke alarms in the
house,
one at the top of the stairs, and one in the hall near the kitchen as
these

Top of stairs is the most important position, followed by bedrooms
of any smokers.

No smokers here!

are pretty old, I was going to replace them anyway, so I though it would
be
a good idea to just use the alarm panel to do everything.
I set a normal PIR up as a fire zone, and when it was triggered, the
internal sounder made a different noise to a normal alarm noise, and it
pulses the external sounders all with the system unset - so this looks
like
it works to me!

My burglar alarm does this too. The fire sequence is a repeating
pattern of 3 blasts with the 4th blast missing. I believe this is
a standard fire signal in the US.

Probably the same here then, i didn't let it ring that long.

(I have loads of spare AUX outputs too, so I can wire in additional fire
only sounders if required)

In which case, the fire detection system presumably depends on
you programming the panel correctly?

Yes, I should be able to do this, I have all the manuals, and I installed it
anyway!

Do I need to use Firetuf cables for the fire detectors, sounders & power
feed to panel?

Probably depends on what regulations you are trying to meet, but
fire alarms in houses are not normally connected with Firetuf.

Okay.

If I need to use it for the power feed, should I take it all the way back
to
the CU (I currently have a radial that serves the Fridge, freezer and
alarm)

Sounds fine to me, but I'm horribly out of date on current fire
alarm regs.

Andrew Gabriel

Thanks for the reply!

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 18:39:37 +0100, "Sparks"
wrote:

Is it best to have a detector in every room, or just the bedrooms and hall?

One at the top of the stairs will do 99% of the work. The others
tend mainly to contribute to the false alarm rate. (I'm assuming this
is a normal bungalow and not multiple occupancy).

There is a balance between having lots of alarms (and lots of false
alarms which means people either ignore the thing or disable it) and
having too few detectors. For a normal family house the most
important detector is the one at the top of the stairs as it will
detect fires downstairs earlier than a hall detector and will also
detect upstairs fires.

We currently have 2 battery operated standalone smoke alarms in the house,
one at the top of the stairs, and one in the hall near the kitchen as these
are pretty old, I was going to replace them anyway, so I though it would be
a good idea to just use the alarm panel to do everything.

You won't gain much by fitting lots more sensors.

Do I need to use Firetuf cables for the fire detectors, sounders & power
feed to panel?

No, if we are talking about a family house/bungalow by the time the
cable is burned you are long dead. Don't forget the smoke and fumes
kill long before the fire does.



--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In article ,
"Sparks" writes:
The current detectors are more than 15 years old, so I think they are in
need of replacement now!

Life is normally quoted as 10 years. I have a couple which
are older and still work, but you must test them with smoke
or smoke detector test spray, and not just the test button.

I guess these boards just power the detectors?

No, they have a relay to connect up to the alarm. They work
my monitoring the current draw -- very significantly higher
when the sounder is operating. Mine have a change-over relay
and a jumper to select momentary or latched operation. You
need a panel which can interrupt the power to the smokes to
reset them if you choose latched operation. (Although mine
can, I stuck with momentary operation so I can tell if/when
smoke clears.)

However, a colleague bought some more recently and they
were a different make without the jumper and I think just
a single relay contact.

--
Andrew Gabriel