"dave" wrote in message
...
Anyone know if there's a suitable mains timer that'll do this?

When the (mains) power is applied, a timer starts and closes contacts to a
15A
AC mains resistive load. Timer switches off after (user settable) time up
to 2
hours. If mains fails, then when it comes back on, the timer starts over
again
with it's timing cycle. ie the timer ensures an (up to) 2 hr ON time after
a
mains failure.

Additionally, a user-start-button available so the timer cycle may be
started at
any time (provided mains power is available of course)

Whats your budget?

For £100 you can get a siemens logo starter kit. Just have a search on
siemens site.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:56:06 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:


"dave" wrote in message
.. .
Anyone know if there's a suitable mains timer that'll do this?

When the (mains) power is applied, a timer starts and closes contacts to a
15A
AC mains resistive load. Timer switches off after (user settable) time up
to 2
hours. If mains fails, then when it comes back on, the timer starts over
again
with it's timing cycle. ie the timer ensures an (up to) 2 hr ON time after
a
mains failure.

Additionally, a user-start-button available so the timer cycle may be
started at
any time (provided mains power is available of course)

Whats your budget?

For £100 you can get a siemens logo starter kit. Just have a search on
siemens site.



I've been looking at various ones of these on the RS site for an
application. They have Moeller, Telemechanique and Misubishi as well.

the ranges available are quite large, but it seems to me that the
Moeller ones have more functions and options.

Any thoughts?


--

..andy

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:56:06 GMT, Tim Morley wrote:

Whats your budget?

For £100 you can get a siemens logo starter kit. Just have a search on
siemens site.

Bit OTT for this application. I found Entrelec MFE series of
multi-function timers when looking for a non-retriggerable one shot for
the "press for heat" function that the OP requires. Not quite sure what
they do on power up. Try looking at RS 281-3915, oh begger discontinued
but they where only £30 + VAT. Not sure it would do 16A but a BFO
contactor driven by it would...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:56:06 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:


"dave" wrote in message
. ..
Anyone know if there's a suitable mains timer that'll do this?

When the (mains) power is applied, a timer starts and closes contacts to
a
15A
AC mains resistive load. Timer switches off after (user settable) time
up
to 2
hours. If mains fails, then when it comes back on, the timer starts over
again
with it's timing cycle. ie the timer ensures an (up to) 2 hr ON time
after
a
mains failure.

Additionally, a user-start-button available so the timer cycle may be
started at
any time (provided mains power is available of course)

Whats your budget?

For £100 you can get a siemens logo starter kit. Just have a search on
siemens site.



I've been looking at various ones of these on the RS site for an
application. They have Moeller, Telemechanique and Misubishi as well.

the ranges available are quite large, but it seems to me that the
Moeller ones have more functions and options.

Any thoughts?


--

.andy


I can vouch for the siemens logo, as I have used a on few projects at work.
Maybe a little ott for this application, but a din rail mounted timer can
set you back £30!. Download the software and have a play with it. You can
design and simulate the software before even spending any money!

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:39:36 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:



For £100 you can get a siemens logo starter kit. Just have a search on
siemens site.



I've been looking at various ones of these on the RS site for an
application. They have Moeller, Telemechanique and Misubishi as well.

the ranges available are quite large, but it seems to me that the
Moeller ones have more functions and options.

Any thoughts?


--

.andy


I can vouch for the siemens logo, as I have used a on few projects at work.
Maybe a little ott for this application, but a din rail mounted timer can
set you back £30!. Download the software and have a play with it. You can
design and simulate the software before even spending any money!


Yes, I did download the software and play with it a bit. The
documentation is quite well written as well, with worked examples as
explanation.

I was prompted to look at this for much the same reason. This was
wanting to have something to control various lighting, heating,
extraction, battery charginf,..... systems in my workshop, I realised
that this was going to result in quite a lot of timers, relays, etc.
to do it which seemed to be becoming quite expensive as well as
inflexible.

All of the various logic controllers seem to have +/- quite similar
functionality in terms of the logic blocks etc., and using a PC, it
would appear that it's pretty quick to prototype and test befoe
implementing.

A few questions though:

- What sort of projects did you do and were there any things that you
wished had been present in the Logo! that weren't there?

- Did you find the amount of storage and the number of logic blocks
(130) enough? Did you need to optimise and take stuff out to fit the
programs in?

- Did you know if it's possible or did you use any of the external
interfaces at run time? By this I mean use of the serial, EIB or AS
buses to connect to another system. Here I'm thinking about if I
wanted to connect to an external computer etc. for logging or other
control... It seems that the PC serial interface is predominantly
for downloading progrsms to the Logo! as opposed to run time use. I'm
not that familiar with EIB and AS buses.




--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:39:36 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:



For £100 you can get a siemens logo starter kit. Just have a search on
siemens site.



I've been looking at various ones of these on the RS site for an
application. They have Moeller, Telemechanique and Misubishi as well.

the ranges available are quite large, but it seems to me that the
Moeller ones have more functions and options.

Any thoughts?


--

.andy


I can vouch for the siemens logo, as I have used a on few projects at
work.
Maybe a little ott for this application, but a din rail mounted timer can
set you back £30!. Download the software and have a play with it. You can
design and simulate the software before even spending any money!


Yes, I did download the software and play with it a bit. The
documentation is quite well written as well, with worked examples as
explanation.

I was prompted to look at this for much the same reason. This was
wanting to have something to control various lighting, heating,
extraction, battery charginf,..... systems in my workshop, I realised
that this was going to result in quite a lot of timers, relays, etc.
to do it which seemed to be becoming quite expensive as well as
inflexible.

All of the various logic controllers seem to have +/- quite similar
functionality in terms of the logic blocks etc., and using a PC, it
would appear that it's pretty quick to prototype and test befoe
implementing.

A few questions though:

- What sort of projects did you do and were there any things that you
wished had been present in the Logo! that weren't there?

- Did you find the amount of storage and the number of logic blocks
(130) enough? Did you need to optimise and take stuff out to fit the
programs in?

- Did you know if it's possible or did you use any of the external
interfaces at run time? By this I mean use of the serial, EIB or AS
buses to connect to another system. Here I'm thinking about if I
wanted to connect to an external computer etc. for logging or other
control... It seems that the PC serial interface is predominantly
for downloading progrsms to the Logo! as opposed to run time use. I'm
not that familiar with EIB and AS buses.




--

.andy


I built the control for a simple wrapping machine with the logo, my last
project was for monitoring a ink viscosity controller for 12 ink tanks for
faults. Monitoring relay output times for an elongated or excessive multiple
outputs. This then isolated a particular channel and then flashed a fault
code up on a single red fault lamp. This last project grew too big for a
logic controller, I had to go for a full PLC (Allen Bradley Micrologix)

I think you are correct on the serial side, purley for upload/download.
AFAIAK the ASi bus will allow a second controller to run as remote I/O
within the main software (I think the remote unit can also be running its
own too)

HTH

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:43:27 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:


I can vouch for the siemens logo, as I have used a on few projects at
work.
Maybe a little ott for this application, but a din rail mounted timer can
set you back £30!. Download the software and have a play with it. You can
design and simulate the software before even spending any money!


Yes, I did download the software and play with it a bit. The
documentation is quite well written as well, with worked examples as
explanation.

I was prompted to look at this for much the same reason. This was
wanting to have something to control various lighting, heating,
extraction, battery charginf,..... systems in my workshop, I realised
that this was going to result in quite a lot of timers, relays, etc.
to do it which seemed to be becoming quite expensive as well as
inflexible.

All of the various logic controllers seem to have +/- quite similar
functionality in terms of the logic blocks etc., and using a PC, it
would appear that it's pretty quick to prototype and test befoe
implementing.

A few questions though:

- What sort of projects did you do and were there any things that you
wished had been present in the Logo! that weren't there?

- Did you find the amount of storage and the number of logic blocks
(130) enough? Did you need to optimise and take stuff out to fit the
programs in?

- Did you know if it's possible or did you use any of the external
interfaces at run time? By this I mean use of the serial, EIB or AS
buses to connect to another system. Here I'm thinking about if I
wanted to connect to an external computer etc. for logging or other
control... It seems that the PC serial interface is predominantly
for downloading progrsms to the Logo! as opposed to run time use. I'm
not that familiar with EIB and AS buses.




--

.andy


I built the control for a simple wrapping machine with the logo, my last
project was for monitoring a ink viscosity controller for 12 ink tanks for
faults. Monitoring relay output times for an elongated or excessive multiple
outputs. This then isolated a particular channel and then flashed a fault
code up on a single red fault lamp. This last project grew too big for a
logic controller, I had to go for a full PLC (Allen Bradley Micrologix)

I think you are correct on the serial side, purley for upload/download.
AFAIAK the ASi bus will allow a second controller to run as remote I/O
within the main software (I think the remote unit can also be running its
own too)


Thanks Tim.

As a matter of interest, what was the limitation of the logic
controller that prompted you to move to the PLC?

I haven't studied the Micrologix in detail yet, but it would appear at
first sight that there is more analogue functionality and faster
execution as well as more storage etc. Are these the main aspects
that are important? I note that the modules themselves are 50%+
more expensive and programming software £300+ as well - obviously not
a lot in a commercial setting. I couldn't find any documentation
other than a product manual and installation instructions - nothing on
the functional capabilities and programming. Is this part of the
software documentation?

Any insight that you can give would be helpful.

many thanks




--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:43:27 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:


I can vouch for the siemens logo, as I have used a on few projects at
work.
Maybe a little ott for this application, but a din rail mounted timer
can
set you back £30!. Download the software and have a play with it. You
can
design and simulate the software before even spending any money!


Yes, I did download the software and play with it a bit. The
documentation is quite well written as well, with worked examples as
explanation.

I was prompted to look at this for much the same reason. This was
wanting to have something to control various lighting, heating,
extraction, battery charginf,..... systems in my workshop, I realised
that this was going to result in quite a lot of timers, relays, etc.
to do it which seemed to be becoming quite expensive as well as
inflexible.

All of the various logic controllers seem to have +/- quite similar
functionality in terms of the logic blocks etc., and using a PC, it
would appear that it's pretty quick to prototype and test befoe
implementing.

A few questions though:

- What sort of projects did you do and were there any things that you
wished had been present in the Logo! that weren't there?

- Did you find the amount of storage and the number of logic blocks
(130) enough? Did you need to optimise and take stuff out to fit the
programs in?

- Did you know if it's possible or did you use any of the external
interfaces at run time? By this I mean use of the serial, EIB or AS
buses to connect to another system. Here I'm thinking about if I
wanted to connect to an external computer etc. for logging or other
control... It seems that the PC serial interface is predominantly
for downloading progrsms to the Logo! as opposed to run time use. I'm
not that familiar with EIB and AS buses.




--

.andy


I built the control for a simple wrapping machine with the logo, my last
project was for monitoring a ink viscosity controller for 12 ink tanks for
faults. Monitoring relay output times for an elongated or excessive
multiple
outputs. This then isolated a particular channel and then flashed a fault
code up on a single red fault lamp. This last project grew too big for a
logic controller, I had to go for a full PLC (Allen Bradley Micrologix)

I think you are correct on the serial side, purley for upload/download.
AFAIAK the ASi bus will allow a second controller to run as remote I/O
within the main software (I think the remote unit can also be running its
own too)


Thanks Tim.

As a matter of interest, what was the limitation of the logic
controller that prompted you to move to the PLC?

I haven't studied the Micrologix in detail yet, but it would appear at
first sight that there is more analogue functionality and faster
execution as well as more storage etc. Are these the main aspects
that are important? I note that the modules themselves are 50%+
more expensive and programming software £300+ as well - obviously not
a lot in a commercial setting. I couldn't find any documentation
other than a product manual and installation instructions - nothing on
the functional capabilities and programming. Is this part of the
software documentation?

Any insight that you can give would be helpful.

many thanks




--

.andy


I know this is getting a little off topic now, but I feel we can keep it
here for now

The reason I jumped to a plc was the number of timers I required for the
project, I think from the top of my head I used about 40!
The documentation for writing the software is in with the RS Logix 500
software itself; BUT it is assumed that you can write ladder software
anyway. Steep (vertical) learning curve if you have never written ladder
before (even if you have seen other peoples ladders!). I had actually been
on a course at Siemens in Manchester for programming their older S5 plcs (
£2000, paid for by work!) this gave me a good foundation; BUT all
manufacturors go about things in their own way. There is a book by Allen
Bradley which is excellent for starters (have a look at rswww.com , RS
Stock no: 191-7038, price £13) "This is a beginners guide to programmable
logic controllers based on the Micrologix 1000. It takes the reader through
the basics of designing a control system and programming. The book includes
step-by-step application examples and common programming techniques. ". You
may be able to get from other sources.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask again

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:21:33 GMT, "Tim Morley" tim.morley*REMOVE
wrote:



I know this is getting a little off topic now, but I feel we can keep it
here for now

I don't see a problem there.


The reason I jumped to a plc was the number of timers I required for the
project, I think from the top of my head I used about 40!

OK...


The documentation for writing the software is in with the RS Logix 500
software itself; BUT it is assumed that you can write ladder software
anyway. Steep (vertical) learning curve if you have never written ladder
before (even if you have seen other peoples ladders!).

I have looked at it briefly in the past, but haven't written them.


I had actually been
on a course at Siemens in Manchester for programming their older S5 plcs (
£2000, paid for by work!) this gave me a good foundation; BUT all
manufacturors go about things in their own way. There is a book by Allen
Bradley which is excellent for starters (have a look at rswww.com , RS
Stock no: 191-7038, price £13) "This is a beginners guide to programmable
logic controllers based on the Micrologix 1000. It takes the reader through
the basics of designing a control system and programming. The book includes
step-by-step application examples and common programming techniques. ". You
may be able to get from other sources.

I'll perhaps get that next time I place an RS order.

However, considering the cost of the software, it might be a better
option to go for one of the bus types of controller like the Moeller
Easy800. It may even be possible to make a hierarchy of them with
outputs of one to inputs of another.

I think I'll do a comparison of what each contains in terms of types
and quantities of functional blocks and see where that takes me.



Hope this helps, feel free to ask again


Many thanks and I well might



--

..andy