I've been troughing round the net trying to find an answer to this, or
at least some clues as to how to work it out for myself, but I haven't
been able to find anything of use. Pointers to useful information would
be much appreciated.

We rent our property, so there's not a lot of scope for changing
plumbing, insulation and so on. My wife has been told that one way we
could save on the gas bill is to run the hot water system 24/7. This
seems counter-intuitive to me, but the source of the information was
apparently a British Gas chap.

Our setup is a gas powered Baxi Solo 2 50 RS, feeding an insulated hot
water tank (airing cupboard) and the radiators. Each function is on
a seperate timer. The boiler was recently gas-safety checked and is
functioning at 74% efficency.

I'd appreciate any information that the group my be able to share that
will allow me to prove/disprove this idea.

Thanks in advance.

Carl
--
"D'you know, I don't think I've got it in me to shoot my flatmate,
my Mum, and my girlfriend all in the same evening." - Shaun of the Dead

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Carl Inglis wrote:

I've been troughing round the net trying to find an answer to this, or
at least some clues as to how to work it out for myself, but I haven't
been able to find anything of use. Pointers to useful information
would be much appreciated.

We rent our property, so there's not a lot of scope for changing
plumbing, insulation and so on. My wife has been told that one way we
could save on the gas bill is to run the hot water system 24/7. This
seems counter-intuitive to me, but the source of the information was
apparently a British Gas chap.

Our setup is a gas powered Baxi Solo 2 50 RS, feeding an insulated hot
water tank (airing cupboard) and the radiators. Each function is on
a seperate timer. The boiler was recently gas-safety checked and is
functioning at 74% efficency.

I'd appreciate any information that the group my be able to share that
will allow me to prove/disprove this idea.

Thanks in advance.

Carl

Running your how water system 24x7 will use *more* gas than timimg it to
co-incide with your usage - though probably not by very much if the cylinder
is well insulated.

As any schoolboy (or girl!) familiar with Newton's Law of Cooling will tell
you, the heat loss from a body (for a given standard of insulation) is
proportional to the temperature difference between the body and its
surroundings. So if the hot water tank is hotter than it needs to be for a
lot of the time, you will waste more heat.

Consider the scenario where you have a bath last thing at night, using most
of the hot water, and will not require any more hot water until you get up
at (say) 7am. In this case, it makes far more sense to allow the cylinder to
remain cold overnight - bringing the boiler on at (say) 6am to ensure that
you have hot water when you need it. If the system is running 24x7, the
boiler will fire up to re-heat the water unnecessarily as soon as you run
the bath.

As long as your water using habits are reasonably predictable, you should be
able to heat the water for 3 short periods each day and have all the water
you want when you want it without wasting gas.

It goes without saying that you should make sure that the cylinder is as
well insulated as you can possibly make it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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".

As long as your water using habits are reasonably predictable, you should
be able to heat the water for 3 short periods each day and have all the
water you want when you want it without wasting gas.

It goes without saying that you should make sure that the cylinder is as
well insulated as you can possibly make it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Please reply to newsgroup.
Reply address IS valid, but is disposable in the event of excessive
spam.


It is also relevant to check that the tank has a thermostat and tells the
boiler that the water is up to temperature. Some older installations relied
upon the boiler stat and will keep firing even though the tank is hot
enough.

John

On 2006-03-18, John wrote:
As long as your water using habits are reasonably predictable, you should
be able to heat the water for 3 short periods each day and have all the
water you want when you want it without wasting gas.

It goes without saying that you should make sure that the cylinder is as
well insulated as you can possibly make it.
[snip]

It is also relevant to check that the tank has a thermostat and tells the
boiler that the water is up to temperature. Some older installations relied
upon the boiler stat and will keep firing even though the tank is hot
enough.

A very valid point. I've just gone and looked at the tank and there's
a large pipe going in at the bottom, another one just over 1/3rd of
the way up it and a smaller one coming out of the top. The only other
connection is the immersion heater in the top (which we never use).

With that in mind, it seems very likely that adding another insulation
jacket to the tank (which only has some blue foam with the makers labels
on the outside) and changing to a timed system would be a great benefit.

I think my wife's informant was probably either trying to increase gas
usage to profit his employers, or was talking about a very specific setup.

Thanks for the advice.

Carl
--
"D'you know, I don't think I've got it in me to shoot my flatmate,
my Mum, and my girlfriend all in the same evening." - Shaun of the Dead

Carl Inglis wrote:

It is also relevant to check that the tank has a thermostat and tells the
boiler that the water is up to temperature. Some older installations relied
upon the boiler stat and will keep firing even though the tank is hot
enough.

A very valid point. I've just gone and looked at the tank and there's
a large pipe going in at the bottom, another one just over 1/3rd of
the way up it

This is the cylinder coil. Your boiler and pump circulate hot water
through this to heat the water inside the cylinder. It's just a loop of
copper pipe going around and then out.

A cylinder stat attaches to the side and controls a motorized valve,
which allows your boiler to concentrate on heating your radiators
whenever the hot water has reached the required temperature. Without a
cylinder stat, the boiler will always try to heat the hot water whenever
your timeclock is set to do so, even when it is hot enough. The cylinder
stat is really an efficiency measure.

Do you know what motorized valves are on your system ? They just look
like metal/plastic boxes hanging off the pipes.

and a smaller one coming out of the top.

Hot water comes out to this to your taps/shower etc.

The only other
connection is the immersion heater in the top (which we never use).

Maybe not, but it's handy if the heating fails and you need to have a
shower.

With that in mind, it seems very likely that adding another insulation
jacket to the tank (which only has some blue foam with the makers labels
on the outside) and changing to a timed system would be a great benefit.

Others will be along to comment on this, but I think it is highly
unlikely that adding a jacket to this will help much. Is there much
ambient heat in your hotpress when the boiler has been running for a few
hours ?

My cylinder has a jacket on it, but that's because it isn't sprayed with
the foam that you're seeing. The foam is much more effective than a jacket.

On 2006-03-18, Geronimo W. Christ Esq wrote:
Carl Inglis wrote:
[snip]

A very valid point. I've just gone and looked at the tank and there's
a large pipe going in at the bottom, another one just over 1/3rd of
the way up it

This is the cylinder coil. Your boiler and pump circulate hot water
through this to heat the water inside the cylinder. It's just a loop of
copper pipe going around and then out.

See below...

A cylinder stat attaches to the side and controls a motorized valve,
which allows your boiler to concentrate on heating your radiators
whenever the hot water has reached the required temperature. Without a
cylinder stat, the boiler will always try to heat the hot water whenever
your timeclock is set to do so, even when it is hot enough. The cylinder
stat is really an efficiency measure.

There certainly doesn't appear to be one of those.

Do you know what motorized valves are on your system ? They just look
like metal/plastic boxes hanging off the pipes.

I can't see any. All the valves I can see are the standard stop-cock
type; but I can't see what's within the boiler itself. There's one big
pump-like object just underneath the boiler, but that's about all there
appears to be.

and a smaller one coming out of the top.

Hot water comes out to this to your taps/shower etc.

That disagrees with the diagram on the side of the foam...

According to the diagram the top pipe is a "vent" pipe, the pipe at
the bottom is /to/ the boiler and the pipe a bit further up is /from/
the boiler.

The only other
connection is the immersion heater in the top (which we never use).

Maybe not, but it's handy if the heating fails and you need to have a
shower.

Oh indeed.

With that in mind, it seems very likely that adding another insulation
jacket to the tank (which only has some blue foam with the makers labels
on the outside) and changing to a timed system would be a great benefit.

Others will be along to comment on this, but I think it is highly
unlikely that adding a jacket to this will help much. Is there much
ambient heat in your hotpress when the boiler has been running for a few
hours ?

It's warm, regardless of the room/outside temp.

My cylinder has a jacket on it, but that's because it isn't sprayed with
the foam that you're seeing. The foam is much more effective than a jacket.

In that case, I'll save myself the cost of the jacket! :-)

Thanks for your thoughts.

Carl
--
"D'you know, I don't think I've got it in me to shoot my flatmate,
my Mum, and my girlfriend all in the same evening." - Shaun of the Dead

whenever the hot water has reached the required temperature. Without a
cylinder stat, the boiler will always try to heat the hot water whenever
your timeclock is set to do so, even when it is hot enough. The cylinder
stat is really an efficiency measure.


Even without motorised valves a cylinder stat can be used to shut down the
boiler when the cylinder reaches the set temperature. I added one to my
first house that had a back boiler and a very basic system. It saved me
loads of money.

John

On 2006-03-18, Roger Mills (aka Set Square) wrote:
[snip]
As long as your water using habits are reasonably predictable, you should be
able to heat the water for 3 short periods each day and have all the water
you want when you want it without wasting gas.
[snip]

Since we have had a shower fitted, it seems very likely that our usage
will become much more predictable (electricly heated shower - landlord's
choice, we didn't have a say).

Thanks for the information, I'll go and start working out the best time(s)
to set it for.

Carl
--
"D'you know, I don't think I've got it in me to shoot my flatmate,
my Mum, and my girlfriend all in the same evening." - Shaun of the Dead

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:44:34 +0000, Carl Inglis
wrote:

I've been troughing round the net trying to find an answer to this, or
at least some clues as to how to work it out for myself, but I haven't
been able to find anything of use. Pointers to useful information would
be much appreciated.

We rent our property, so there's not a lot of scope for changing
plumbing, insulation and so on. My wife has been told that one way we
could save on the gas bill is to run the hot water system 24/7. This
seems counter-intuitive to me, but the source of the information was
apparently a British Gas chap.

Our setup is a gas powered Baxi Solo 2 50 RS, feeding an insulated hot
water tank (airing cupboard) and the radiators. Each function is on
a seperate timer. The boiler was recently gas-safety checked and is
functioning at 74% efficency.

I'd appreciate any information that the group my be able to share that
will allow me to prove/disprove this idea.

Thanks in advance.

Carl

Ask your landlord about insulating the place if it needs doing. If
he's reluctant then find out if there are grants in your area and
offer to pay half of any amount (or 1/4 etc) to get more insulation.
Try to convince him its a selling point for future tenants?
EST link on
http://www.top10freebies.co.uk/top-1...n-freebies.htm


Consider switching electricity company too.


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