I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay 163.00
pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I wouldn't
even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence

Terence wrote:
I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay
163.00 pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace
the Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I
wouldn't even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence

I don't agree with these schemes, I've only ever met three people who have
been in them and all three reported bad things, BG saying that the boiler
needs replacing as it's beyond repair ( this is where they offer you a
boiler for about £800 fitted) also there's too much small print in the
contract making it harder to claim for things, I'll agree that you have been
lucky(!) inthat your boiler parts were covered - many are not - although I
still don't see the attraction of the scheme, you have been in it for at
least two years judging by your post, meaning you've paid about £330, you
can buy a new boiler for that.

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:19:29 GMT, Terence
wrote:

I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay 163.00
pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I wouldn't
even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence


However.......

You will pay £163 next year as well, and the year after and so on.

Even if the boiler had a lifetime of as little as 5 years you would be
better off putting the money into a cash savings account.

Over a lifetime of ten years, even paying for repairs, and depositing
the money annually, you would almost certainly have enough to replace
the boiler.

Do you buy Lottery tickets by any chance?


--

..andy

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:35:41 UTC, Andy Hall wrote:

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !


You will pay £163 next year as well, and the year after and so on.

Even if the boiler had a lifetime of as little as 5 years you would be
better off putting the money into a cash savings account.

Over a lifetime of ten years, even paying for repairs, and depositing
the money annually, you would almost certainly have enough to replace
the boiler.

Quite possibly. OTOH BG will not replace the boiler if it's over a
certain age. So I'm saving up.

Meanwhile, over the last four years:

4 CO2 and other boiler checks
New large copper cylinder and a lot of pipework reconfiguration
New pump
New 3 way valve
New isolator valve
New ball valve on feed tank
New programmer

And they've always responded quickly, unlike the local plumbers (though
I understand it's not like that ATM).
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:35:41 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:19:29 GMT, Terence
wrote:

I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay 163.00
pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I wouldn't
even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence


However.......

You will pay £163

or more...

next year as well, and the year after and so on.

I gave them up several years ago, when they couldn't refix a baffle
plate on the balanced flue of my boiler even after three or four
visits. Their regional manager visited me and wasn't very sympathetic
at all.

I ended up fixing it myself.
--
Frank Erskine

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:59:35 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:35:41 UTC, Andy Hall wrote:

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !


You will pay £163 next year as well, and the year after and so on.

Even if the boiler had a lifetime of as little as 5 years you would be
better off putting the money into a cash savings account.

Over a lifetime of ten years, even paying for repairs, and depositing
the money annually, you would almost certainly have enough to replace
the boiler.

Quite possibly. OTOH BG will not replace the boiler if it's over a
certain age. So I'm saving up.

Meanwhile, over the last four years:

4 CO2 and other boiler checks
New large copper cylinder and a lot of pipework reconfiguration
New pump
New 3 way valve
New isolator valve
New ball valve on feed tank
New programmer

And they've always responded quickly, unlike the local plumbers (though
I understand it's not like that ATM).

You and the OP have had a bad run. If all BGs customers had that level of
claims they would find themselves losing money.


Really the only things that BG can offer is:
1) They probably are better
placed to respond to emergencies (however plenty of people find that they
can't get them out ATM).

In fact I've been to a couple of jobs recently where people have said
they weren't prepared to wait a week for BG.

2) They save you the hassle of having to find someone if you can't do it
yourself.

Breakdown cover is just one of a number of insurance products that form a
spectrum from (at one end) Buildings and Liability through to Appliance
and Pets at the other. Insurance companies are there to make money for
themselves! If you can afford (however unpleasant) the worst case claim
you will always in the long run do better to not insure.

BTW I opted for 2,500 GBP excess (not just on subsidence but on all
claims) on the buildings insurance for my house and got a 50% discount. I
suspect that actuarially the premium is somewhat poor but its cheaper than
any other premium so I save.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In message , Phil L
writes
you have been in it for at least two years judging by your post,
meaning you've paid about £330, you can buy a new boiler for that.

Where?

--
Richard Faulkner

Phil L wrote:
Terence wrote:
I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay
163.00 pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace
the Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I
wouldn't even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence

I don't agree with these schemes, I've only ever met three people who
have been in them and all three reported bad things, BG saying that
the boiler needs replacing as it's beyond repair ( this is where they
offer you a boiler for about £800 fitted) also there's too much small
print in the contract making it harder to claim for things, I'll
agree that you have been lucky(!) inthat your boiler parts were
covered - many are not - although I still don't see the attraction of
the scheme, you have been in it for at least two years judging by
your post, meaning you've paid about £330, you can buy a new boiler
for that.


Phil L,

Then you really haven't lived. I've had British Gas three star cover on my
heating system now since 1988 and the only thing the won't cover is a boiler
replacement. Under my agreement with them, they will repair any part of my
boiler right up until such time as the spare parts become unavailable - on
any day of the year!

The attraction of the scheme - that's easy, if a fault develops in ANY part
of my heating system from a blown fuse, boiler breakdown, leaking pipe or
cylinder, leaking rad, timer, roomstat etc - I pick up the 'phone and they
come and fix it, as simple as that!

Ok I pay for the service, but I pay a damn site more insurance for my car,
house and car breakdown cover and I hope I never have to claim off those -
but I can guarantee that with the state of my heating system, I will be
ringing BG AT LEAST twice a year.

Remember, that's all it is *is insurance cover* you can get it cheaper, but
like everything else its the small print that counts - and I must admit,
that over the years with BG, their repair engineers have never bothered
looking at that.

A case in point here. My son had a fault on his gas heating, he called out
BG and took the option of theit three star cover, fault repaired. A few
days later, *he* decided to fit some thermostatic valves and then hit a
major problem refilling his system - after about two days of trying to get
things working, he surrendered and called BG, he explained to them what he
had done in its entirety (fully expecting them to make a charge) and they
turned up the next day, found the problem, alered a section or two of pipe,
got the system working and when he asked for the bill the answer he got
as -- nothing sir, free of charge, covered by you three star sir, have a
nice day!

Try that with a cheaper firm and see the answer and bill you would get.


Brian G

I've used BG a number of times both profesionally and at home. On each
occasion, they've been cheaper than the local company and done an
excelent job.
In the case above, it's probably easier for the fitter to say "no
charge sir" than fill out the forms. We don't have BG cover but called
them recently to replace a leaking component on our boiler. Result -
two visits, job done, one callout fee and no charge for parts. I can't
figure it but I'm very happy about it.

I also use BG homecare and I have no doubt that they havre made good money
from me because of my low call out rate over the years - however one good
reason for belonging to the scheme is the knowledge that a single phone call
will get me service in a reasonable period rather than hours wasted chasing
disinterested service engineering firms to provide me with a service some
time next month if I am lucky!

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
Breakdown cover is just one of a number of insurance products that form a
spectrum from (at one end) Buildings and Liability through to Appliance
and Pets at the other. Insurance companies are there to make money for
themselves! If you can afford (however unpleasant) the worst case claim
you will always in the long run do better to not insure.

Would you say the same about house buildings and contents insurance?

This is a serious question.


Mary

"Brian G" wrote in message
...
Phil L wrote:
Terence wrote:
I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay
163.00 pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace
the Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I
wouldn't even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence

I don't agree with these schemes, I've only ever met three people who
have been in them and all three reported bad things, BG saying that
the boiler needs replacing as it's beyond repair ( this is where they
offer you a boiler for about £800 fitted) also there's too much small
print in the contract making it harder to claim for things, I'll
agree that you have been lucky(!) inthat your boiler parts were
covered - many are not - although I still don't see the attraction of
the scheme, you have been in it for at least two years judging by
your post, meaning you've paid about £330, you can buy a new boiler
for that.


Phil L,

Then you really haven't lived. I've had British Gas three star cover on
my
heating system now since 1988 and the only thing the won't cover is a
boiler
replacement. Under my agreement with them, they will repair any part of
my
boiler right up until such time as the spare parts become unavailable - on
any day of the year!

The attraction of the scheme - that's easy, if a fault develops in ANY
part
of my heating system from a blown fuse, boiler breakdown, leaking pipe or
cylinder, leaking rad, timer, roomstat etc - I pick up the 'phone and they
come and fix it, as simple as that!

Ok I pay for the service, but I pay a damn site more insurance for my car,
house and car breakdown cover and I hope I never have to claim off those -
but I can guarantee that with the state of my heating system, I will be
ringing BG AT LEAST twice a year.

Remember, that's all it is *is insurance cover* you can get it cheaper,
but
like everything else its the small print that counts - and I must admit,
that over the years with BG, their repair engineers have never bothered
looking at that.

A case in point here. My son had a fault on his gas heating, he called
out
BG and took the option of theit three star cover, fault repaired. A few
days later, *he* decided to fit some thermostatic valves and then hit a
major problem refilling his system - after about two days of trying to get
things working, he surrendered and called BG, he explained to them what he
had done in its entirety (fully expecting them to make a charge) and they
turned up the next day, found the problem, alered a section or two of
pipe,
got the system working and when he asked for the bill the answer he got
as -- nothing sir, free of charge, covered by you three star sir, have a
nice day!

Try that with a cheaper firm and see the answer and bill you would get.

I like that post, thanks.

We don't have BG insurance of any kind but I'm very pleased to read of
positive experiences.

Mary


Brian G

"peter" wrote in
:

I also use BG homecare and I have no doubt that they havre made good
money from me because of my low call out rate over the years - however
one good reason for belonging to the scheme is the knowledge that a
single phone call will get me service in a reasonable period rather
than hours wasted chasing disinterested service engineering firms to
provide me with a service some time next month if I am lucky!


However:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/utilities/story/0,,1728603,00.html

British Gas chaos leaves thousands without heat

Saturday March 11, 2006
The Guardian

Thousands of British Gas customers have been left without heating or hot
water for days - and in some cases weeks - during the coldest part of
winter because the company's HomeCare insurance operation is in chaos.

A whistleblower who works for British Gas has revealed that staff were told
customers without central heating "no longer constituted a priority", even
though they have paid around £200 a year for emergency call-out insurance.

More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert boiler
care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold for engineers who
often fail to arrive or don't have the correct parts.

The whistleblower contacted the Guardian after reading our report on how it
took British Gas three months and seven appointments to fix a minor problem
in an oven in Surrey.

He says call centre staff deal with similar instances every day, and every
"third or fourth call is currently from someone complaining about the poor
service they have received".

He reveals that appointments to fix boilers are frequently cancelled
without informing the customer. Around Christmas it was taking the company
six days to fix some boilers - longer if new parts were required. While the
system was unable to cope, he says the company continued to press staff to
sell policies to new customers.

British Gas admitted it has experienced problems with its HomeCare
operation, but denied several of the whistleblower's claims.

--
Rod

On 11 Mar 2006 20:36:19 GMT, Rod wrote:

"peter" wrote in
:

I also use BG homecare and I have no doubt that they havre made good
money from me because of my low call out rate over the years - however
one good reason for belonging to the scheme is the knowledge that a
single phone call will get me service in a reasonable period rather
than hours wasted chasing disinterested service engineering firms to
provide me with a service some time next month if I am lucky!


However:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/utilities/story/0,,1728603,00.html

British Gas chaos leaves thousands without heat

Saturday March 11, 2006
The Guardian

Thousands of British Gas customers have been left without heating or hot
water for days - and in some cases weeks - during the coldest part of
winter because the company's HomeCare insurance operation is in chaos.

A whistleblower who works for British Gas has revealed that staff were told
customers without central heating "no longer constituted a priority", even
though they have paid around £200 a year for emergency call-out insurance.

More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert boiler
care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold for engineers who
often fail to arrive or don't have the correct parts.

The whistleblower contacted the Guardian after reading our report on how it
took British Gas three months and seven appointments to fix a minor problem
in an oven in Surrey.

He says call centre staff deal with similar instances every day, and every
"third or fourth call is currently from someone complaining about the poor
service they have received".

He reveals that appointments to fix boilers are frequently cancelled
without informing the customer. Around Christmas it was taking the company
six days to fix some boilers - longer if new parts were required. While the
system was unable to cope, he says the company continued to press staff to
sell policies to new customers.

British Gas admitted it has experienced problems with its HomeCare
operation, but denied several of the whistleblower's claims.


Some years ago, I had one of their policies on a boiler and had
exactly this experience. The pilot was failing to light and remain
on. I called BG and asked for a call out, expecting no worse than
next day. They asked if I had young children or elderly people in
the house because they were prioritising as a result of staff
shortage. Since I didn't, they told me that the best that they could
do was five days.

Clearly that isn't acceptable. They are being paid to deliver a
service, not act as social workers. At the prices they are charging,
they need to arrange sub contracted assistance if they can't cover the
work themselves.

I had a "discussion" with them and the contract price was refunded in
full.

I repaired the boiler myself using a standard thermocouple costing £3.





--

..andy

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news

Breakdown cover is just one of a number of insurance products that form a
spectrum from (at one end) Buildings and Liability through to Appliance
and Pets at the other. Insurance companies are there to make money for
themselves! If you can afford (however unpleasant) the worst case claim
you will always in the long run do better to not insure.


Would you say the same about house buildings and contents insurance?

This is a serious question.


You shouldn't need to ask. Who puts up the most expensive buildings
in the most expensive city of the UK? Not corner shop grocers, that's
for sure.

The issue is that 'the long run' may be hundreds of years when it comes
to relatively infrequent but expensive events like a house burning down.
Taken over thousands of years, it will certainly be more expensive to
insure a house than it will be to rebuild it every time it burns. The
thing is, the risk doesn't average out per year, it comes in a big lump
to a very unlucky (or careless) owner. Insurance is a type of gambling,
where you bet on something bad happening and the insurance company bets
that it won't, at least during the period of the bet. The house
percentage favours the insurer, but you still might not want to win the
bet.

If the event is small enough that you expect to be able to cover the
cost, then it's proabably better not to insure. It's only if the cost
of an event would bankrupt you, particularly if it happened a couple
of times in fairly quick succession, that it's worth insurance. Unless,
of course, you have reason to suspect that the odds may not be what the
insurance company thinks they are, in which case you will meet someone
called a 'loss adjuster'.

The vast majority of people live out their entire lives having given
money to insurance companies. The few who make money from the companies
are either very unlucky or make it their business to make a profit. The
insurance companies take a dim view of this activity.

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

I had a "discussion" with them and the contract price was refunded in
full.

This wasn't a "Full and frank exchange of views", was it?

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Brian G wrote:
Phil L wrote:
Terence wrote:
I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay
163.00 pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace
the Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I
wouldn't even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence
I don't agree with these schemes, I've only ever met three people who
have been in them and all three reported bad things, BG saying that
the boiler needs replacing as it's beyond repair ( this is where they
offer you a boiler for about £800 fitted) also there's too much small
print in the contract making it harder to claim for things, I'll
agree that you have been lucky(!) inthat your boiler parts were
covered - many are not - although I still don't see the attraction of
the scheme, you have been in it for at least two years judging by
your post, meaning you've paid about £330, you can buy a new boiler
for that.


Phil L,

Then you really haven't lived. I've had British Gas three star cover on my
heating system now since 1988 and the only thing the won't cover is a boiler
replacement. Under my agreement with them, they will repair any part of my
boiler right up until such time as the spare parts become unavailable - on
any day of the year!

The attraction of the scheme - that's easy, if a fault develops in ANY part
of my heating system from a blown fuse, boiler breakdown, leaking pipe or
cylinder, leaking rad, timer, roomstat etc - I pick up the 'phone and they
come and fix it, as simple as that!

Ok I pay for the service, but I pay a damn site more insurance for my car,
house and car breakdown cover and I hope I never have to claim off those -
but I can guarantee that with the state of my heating system, I will be
ringing BG AT LEAST twice a year.

Remember, that's all it is *is insurance cover* you can get it cheaper, but
like everything else its the small print that counts - and I must admit,
that over the years with BG, their repair engineers have never bothered
looking at that.

A case in point here. My son had a fault on his gas heating, he called out
BG and took the option of theit three star cover, fault repaired. A few
days later, *he* decided to fit some thermostatic valves and then hit a
major problem refilling his system - after about two days of trying to get
things working, he surrendered and called BG, he explained to them what he
had done in its entirety (fully expecting them to make a charge) and they
turned up the next day, found the problem, alered a section or two of pipe,
got the system working and when he asked for the bill the answer he got
as -- nothing sir, free of charge, covered by you three star sir, have a
nice day!

Try that with a cheaper firm and see the answer and bill you would get.


Brian G


ok so BG are experiencing staff shortages, i am currently studying for
domestic gas Qualifications, i have looked at BG's website. if you think
of gas you think of BG, what a prestigeous company. i read up on thier
entry requirements, you have to be experienced, highly experienced,
loads of gcse's AND thier wage aint as good as some self employed
fitters/engineers get. so its no wonder that they cant get staff!

i did email them and ask about any placement/apprentice schemes(read my
post further up for the low down on my situ)they had and i got a reply
saying that they have customer service positions available! i am
currently working/gaining knowledge for free on placement! why wont they
take on people who want to learn!

its going to be a situation where the young cant learn the tricks from
the old cos the old are retired or dead and the knowledge went with them!

rant over!

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:49:11 UTC, Gav ""gavbriggs\"@[cut the
spam]blueyonder.co.uk" wrote:

ok so BG are experiencing staff shortages, i am currently studying for
domestic gas Qualifications, i have looked at BG's website. if you think
of gas you think of BG, what a prestigeous company. i read up on thier
entry requirements, you have to be experienced, highly experienced,
loads of gcse's AND thier wage aint as good as some self employed
fitters/engineers get. so its no wonder that they cant get staff!

They seem to have the same problem most winters recently. We were lucky
when the cylinder burst last year about this time...called in Sunday
night, guy arrived Monday, checked the cylinder, measured up and left.
CH guy arrived first thing Tuesday and worked most of the day. Job done.
I had no time to do that, and it would have taken a LOT longer (starting
with sourcing the right size cylinder).

Having said that, a couple of the people we've had round have been
shicking. One of them replaced the ball valve on the header tank, and
didn't trim the pipe so the joint was skewed. Water everywhere, at which
point a single mum friend phoned us and asked us to look after two under
fives at 10 mins notice as her other daughter (who had cancer) was being
rushed back to London. At that point BG sent out an older guy who was
excellent (once he'd finished cursing his predecessor). Did the job
properly and fitted an isolation valve too.

I visit our local PO delivery office every morning, and see the BG
fitters' 'social club', when they pick up parts for the day. Hearing
them talk about jobs is an eye opener...
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 11 Mar 2006 20:36:19 GMT, Rod wrote:

I repaired the boiler myself using a standard thermocouple costing £3.

If you could do that why have their contract anyway?

We haven't, confident that it wouldn't be worthwhile.

Mary





--

.andy

Richard Faulkner wrote:
In message , Phil L
writes
you have been in it for at least two years judging by your post,
meaning you've paid about ?330, you can buy a new boiler for that.

Where?

Ebay!

"Joe" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news

Breakdown cover is just one of a number of insurance products that form a
spectrum from (at one end) Buildings and Liability through to Appliance
and Pets at the other. Insurance companies are there to make money for
themselves! If you can afford (however unpleasant) the worst case claim
you will always in the long run do better to not insure.


Would you say the same about house buildings and contents insurance?

This is a serious question.


You shouldn't need to ask. Who puts up the most expensive buildings
in the most expensive city of the UK? Not corner shop grocers, that's
for sure.

The issue is that 'the long run' may be hundreds of years when it comes
to relatively infrequent but expensive events like a house burning down.
Taken over thousands of years, it will certainly be more expensive to
insure a house than it will be to rebuild it every time it burns. The
thing is, the risk doesn't average out per year, it comes in a big lump
to a very unlucky (or careless) owner. Insurance is a type of gambling,
where you bet on something bad happening and the insurance company bets
that it won't, at least during the period of the bet. The house
percentage favours the insurer, but you still might not want to win the
bet.

If the event is small enough that you expect to be able to cover the
cost, then it's proabably better not to insure. It's only if the cost
of an event would bankrupt you, particularly if it happened a couple
of times in fairly quick succession, that it's worth insurance. Unless,
of course, you have reason to suspect that the odds may not be what the
insurance company thinks they are, in which case you will meet someone
called a 'loss adjuster'.

The vast majority of people live out their entire lives having given
money to insurance companies. The few who make money from the companies
are either very unlucky or make it their business to make a profit. The
insurance companies take a dim view of this activity.

That's a very interesting reply.

I wonder what others think?

Mary

Rod wrote:
"peter" wrote in
:

I also use BG homecare and I have no doubt that they havre made good
money from me because of my low call out rate over the years -
however one good reason for belonging to the scheme is the knowledge
that a single phone call will get me service in a reasonable period
rather than hours wasted chasing disinterested service engineering
firms to provide me with a service some time next month if I am
lucky!


However:

http://money.guardian.co.uk/utilities/story/0,,1728603,00.html

British Gas chaos leaves thousands without heat

Saturday March 11, 2006
The Guardian

Thousands of British Gas customers have been left without heating or
hot water for days - and in some cases weeks - during the coldest
part of winter because the company's HomeCare insurance operation is
in chaos.

This has not been my experience, other than when I had to replace my boiler
some years ago because spares were no longer available (beginning of
December) - and then most of that waiting time was because BG were trying
their hardest to get the spares. Once it became obvious that this was not
possible, a new boiler was ordered and fitted within a few days by them
(fitting took half a day with free TRV's thrown in).

A whistleblower who works for British Gas has revealed that staff
were told customers without central heating "no longer constituted a
priority", even though they have paid around £200 a year for
emergency call-out insurance.

What is one persons priority is not anothers, take it from me.

With regards to 'priority', *most* houses have alternative heating in them,
either a separate gas or electric fire or coal fires that can be used in
emergencies - so it is rare that a house is left entirely without heating -
and in those cases, then it is fairly easy to hire some temporary fires.
With regards to hot water, many houses have electric immersion heaters in
the hot water cylinder which can be used instead of gas - combi's and their
derivatives excepted of course! Otherwise boil a kettle!

More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert
boiler care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold for
engineers who often fail to arrive or don't have the correct parts.

Even with a 'full complement' of engineers, some people will have to wait
for the engineer to call. It is also unreasonable to expect any company to
carry every spare part for every type of boiler that is fitted in houses -
although BG is trying to remedy this as far as the can by using their 'own
brand' or replacement parts where possible.

The whistleblower contacted the Guardian after reading our report on
how it took British Gas three months and seven appointments to fix a
minor problem in an oven in Surrey.

What would be interesting would be the details here with regards to the type
of fault and the customers expectations rather than that bland statement.

He says call centre staff deal with similar instances every day, and
every "third or fourth call is currently from someone complaining
about the poor service they have received".

I cannot speak for others, but in my own experience, I have never
experienced a 'poor service' - problems yes with late arrivals (but they
have always telephoned to let me know), spare parts and the odd 'sods law'
fault that defies several attempts to fix (but they have always succeeded).
But on every occasion, the service has been good, the engineers polite, the
work done to a high standard and I have always been kept informed.

As a matter of interest, I worked within a housing repairs environment from
1971 to 2001 (when I took early retirement) and in that time, I have lost
count of the number of 'stroppy' customers who caused many of the 'poor
service' problems themselves - being out when the workman has called and
point-blank denying this, failing to listen to what they have been told,
agreeing to a repair procedure and then changing their minds, physically
threatening the workman, and myself as their foreman for no other reason
than they are violent, ( the have been shouted at such a close range that I
have had their spit all over my glasses) and I'm 6 foot tall and built like
the proverbial brick crapper - the list is endless.

He reveals that appointments to fix boilers are frequently cancelled
without informing the customer. Around Christmas it was taking the
company six days to fix some boilers - longer if new parts were
required. While the system was unable to cope, he says the company
continued to press staff to sell policies to new customers.

See comments elsewhere!

By the way, I am not a British Gas sycophant, I just have an empathy with
them having spent many years in a housing maintenance environment between
1964 and 2001 and I have a vast experience of the different types of
customer reactions - with many of the complainers shouting long and loud for
absolutely nothing, and using the 'attack is the best method of defence'
syndrome to hide the fact that either they had caused the problems or, they
were hoping to kick up enough of a stink so that they would be paid a bit of
'compo' just to get rid of them.

When I read stuff like this report, I tend to think it's like these
'builders from hell' programs on the TV - you only see/hear about the
minority of bad experiences, you are *never* shown the majority of good
builders at work - that's not newsworthy enough is it?


Brian G

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:47:25 GMT, Guy King
wrote:

The message
from Andy Hall contains these words:

I had a "discussion" with them and the contract price was refunded in
full.

This wasn't a "Full and frank exchange of views", was it?

Oh, yes.....

I keep a box of cardboard for writing stiff letters.



--

..andy

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:08:12 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 11 Mar 2006 20:36:19 GMT, Rod wrote:

I repaired the boiler myself using a standard thermocouple costing £3.

If you could do that why have their contract anyway?

We haven't, confident that it wouldn't be worthwhile.

Mary

Comfort factor for SWMBO.

She felt differently after that episode.


--

..andy

Bob Eager wrote:

I visit our local PO delivery office every morning, and see the BG
fitters' 'social club', when they pick up parts for the day. Hearing
them talk about jobs is an eye opener...

and... ?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:19:29 GMT, Terence
wrote:

I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay 163.00
pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I wouldn't
even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Terence


However.......

You will pay £163 next year as well, and the year after and so on.

Even if the boiler had a lifetime of as little as 5 years you would be
better off putting the money into a cash savings account.

Over a lifetime of ten years, even paying for repairs, and depositing
the money annually, you would almost certainly have enough to replace
the boiler.

Now's the time to change to one of the cheaper suppliers then. Or leave
it a bit and malke sure they did a decent job. If the engineer was
anything like the Onstream clowns they sent to me the OP was very very
lucky.

Then I moved to Power Gen who just put up their prices more than BG
just did. But at least I just got £20 credit from them for failing to
turn up and replace the meter. I never heard a thing from BG when they
failed to turn up a few times.

Some you win. Some you pays yer money.

Brian G wrote:

With regards to 'priority', *most* houses have alternative heating in them,
either a separate gas or electric fire or coal fires that can be used in
emergencies - so it is rare that a house is left entirely without heating -

This house, built circa 1977 has no chimney, no immersion heater,
electric fire, portable gas fire, or any other way of heating water, or
ourselves.

I have invested in a small generator, so as to power up the gas central
heating and the TV to keep SWTSMBO happy if the electric goes down.

Otherwise boil a kettle!

For a bath? How big would the kettle be?

Dave

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:15:32 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Rod wrote:


More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert
boiler care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold for
engineers who often fail to arrive or don't have the correct parts.

Even with a 'full complement' of engineers, some people will have to wait
for the engineer to call. It is also unreasonable to expect any company to
carry every spare part for every type of boiler that is fitted in houses -

They should check into that before accepting a contract.


although BG is trying to remedy this as far as the can by using their 'own
brand' or replacement parts where possible.

Which of course provide more margin.




--

..andy

Joe wrote:
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news

Breakdown cover is just one of a number of insurance products that
form a spectrum from (at one end) Buildings and Liability through
to Appliance and Pets at the other. Insurance companies are there
to make money for themselves! If you can afford (however
unpleasant) the worst case claim you will always in the long run do
better to not insure.


Would you say the same about house buildings and contents insurance?

This is a serious question.


You shouldn't need to ask. Who puts up the most expensive buildings
in the most expensive city of the UK? Not corner shop grocers, that's
for sure.

The issue is that 'the long run' may be hundreds of years when it
comes to relatively infrequent but expensive events like a house
burning down. Taken over thousands of years, it will certainly be
more expensive to insure a house than it will be to rebuild it every
time it burns. The thing is, the risk doesn't average out per year,
it comes in a big lump to a very unlucky (or careless) owner.
Insurance is a type of gambling, where you bet on something bad
happening and the insurance company bets that it won't, at least
during the period of the bet. The house percentage favours the
insurer, but you still might not want to win the bet.

If the event is small enough that you expect to be able to cover the
cost, then it's proabably better not to insure. It's only if the cost
of an event would bankrupt you, particularly if it happened a couple
of times in fairly quick succession, that it's worth insurance.
Unless, of course, you have reason to suspect that the odds may not
be what the insurance company thinks they are, in which case you will
meet someone called a 'loss adjuster'.

The vast majority of people live out their entire lives having given
money to insurance companies. The few who make money from the
companies are either very unlucky or make it their business to make a
profit. The insurance companies take a dim view of this activity.


Joe,

I understand your point of view here, but after dealing with many people who
have lost all their possessions through fire or flood and have not had
insurance, it is my opinion that it is far better to pay the premiums 'just
in case' rather have no cover at all - and most of these disasters have come
right-out-of-the-blue as they say.

There was a time when my thoughts were perhaps along your lines, until I
landed a job that involved dealing with the after affects of these personal
disasters, and I have been to far too many where the 'survivors' have been
left with nothing but the clothes they stood in (very often only their night
clothes in the middle of winter) and who didn't have insurance or the
finacial means to recover these items. That changed my opinion, and I would
advise any householder to take out at least a bare minimum of cover -
myself, I pay for the best cover that I can afford and hope that I never
have to use it, but it's there if the unthinkable happens.

BTW you spend far less on property insurance over your lifetime than it
would cost to rebuild your life, property and renew your possessions if
disaster strikes (acts of god, wars and civil unrest excepted).


Just the ramblings of a weary old maintenance foreman :-)


Brian G

The message
from Dave contains these words:

Otherwise boil a kettle!

For a bath? How big would the kettle be?

I've done that before now - though for the kids. You don't need it all
to be boiling you know - unless the kids have been /really/ naughty.
About a dozen kettlefulls will provide enough for two smalls to splash
about in for twenty minutes or so.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

In message , Terence
writes
I subscribe to British Gas Homecare. For my Combi-Boiler I pay 163.00
pounds a year.

I've just had a leaking Heat Exchanger.

They had to replace the Heat Exchanger, replace the Fan and replace the
Gas Valve. The fan and gas valve were damaged by the water.

God alone knows what that would have cost had I not had a Homecare
agreement.

Last year I had to have the pressure cylinder replaced.

I am definitely winning cost-wise !

Just thought that even if I had done the fixing myself (which I wouldn't
even dream of doing) I would still be in pocket.

Good value for money if the same happens every year, otherwise not
four years insurance is the cost of a new boiler

--
geoff

Dave wrote:
Brian G wrote:

With regards to 'priority', *most* houses have alternative heating
in them, either a separate gas or electric fire or coal fires that
can be used in emergencies - so it is rare that a house is left
entirely without heating -

This house, built circa 1977 has no chimney, no immersion heater,
electric fire, portable gas fire, or any other way of heating water,
or ourselves.

I have invested in a small generator, so as to power up the gas
central heating and the TV to keep SWTSMBO happy if the electric goes
down.

Otherwise boil a kettle!

For a bath? How big would the kettle be?


Hello Dave,

"For a bath? How big would the kettle be?" That's simple, it is not
essential to bathe unless there are specific medical reasons to do so, and
then once that is known, your repair becomes the 'priority' over all
others - so the others must wait unfortunately!

Hard but true in the event of 'having to prioritise'.

That should set the ball rolling somewhat, but it's a fact.

Brian G

Joe wrote:


The vast majority of people live out their entire lives having given
money to insurance companies. The few who make money from the companies
are either very unlucky or make it their business to make a profit. The
insurance companies take a dim view of this activity.

I'm certainly not one who makes a business of making claims but in my
experience insurance companies take a dim view of paying out on ANY claim!

They have only ever settled when forced by a court or the Insurance
Ombudsman. Their trading policy appears to be to never make a reasonable
offer, and always to delay settlement for as long as possible in the hope
you will give up on your claim.

Perhaps I have just been unlucky.

ps Joe - sorry about the email - pressed the wrong button!
--
Geoff Beale
Extract digit to email

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:15:32 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Rod wrote:


More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert
boiler care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold for
engineers who often fail to arrive or don't have the correct parts.

Even with a 'full complement' of engineers, some people will have to
wait for the engineer to call. It is also unreasonable to expect
any company to carry every spare part for every type of boiler that
is fitted in houses -

They should check into that before accepting a contract.

It's impractical to have an engineer 'hanging on a coat peg' just waiting
for a call.

Sods law being what it is, you will have far too many in the quite periods
and not enough in the very busy periods (and that is my personal experience
of emergency maintenace works).

although BG is trying to remedy this as far as the can by using
their 'own brand' or replacement parts where possible.

Which of course provide more margin.

At the end of the day lets face the fact that BG is a private company and
they have to make a profit and it makes no difference to the quality of the
repair.

Brian G

In message , Dave
writes
Brian G wrote:

With regards to 'priority', *most* houses have alternative heating in them,
either a separate gas or electric fire or coal fires that can be used in
emergencies - so it is rare that a house is left entirely without heating -

This house, built circa 1977 has no chimney, no immersion heater,
electric fire, portable gas fire, or any other way of heating water, or
ourselves.

I have invested in a small generator, so as to power up the gas central
heating

Have you actually tried it out yet ?

unless you get the earthing right, the flame sensing won't work, and if
it's fairly new, you might find that the crappy output from the genny
doesn't do the pcb much good


--
geoff

The message
from "Brian G" contains these words:

I understand your point of view here, but after dealing with many people who
have lost all their possessions through fire or flood and have not had
insurance, it is my opinion that it is far better to pay the premiums 'just
in case' rather have no cover at all - and most of these disasters have come
right-out-of-the-blue as they say.

My parents in law had the mains feed to the cold tank in the loft come
apart (not burst, actually fall off[1]) while they were away over
Christmas. They were still moving in and all the ceilings were down, all
the new carpets which hadn't even been walked on yet (apart from the
fitters) were trashed etc.

There's times when you're glad you've got insurance.

Where it doesn't make sense is to cover things that should be dealt with
by maintenance in the first place - or lowish value things like washing
machines.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:54:09 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:15:32 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Rod wrote:


More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert
boiler care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold for
engineers who often fail to arrive or don't have the correct parts.

Even with a 'full complement' of engineers, some people will have to
wait for the engineer to call. It is also unreasonable to expect
any company to carry every spare part for every type of boiler that
is fitted in houses -

They should check into that before accepting a contract.

It's impractical to have an engineer 'hanging on a coat peg' just waiting
for a call.

Yes it is, and you don't need to do it.

BG has a large enough national business that it should be perfectly
possible for them to move staff around if need be.

Secondly, they should have subcontract arrangements with local firms
to fill any shortfall.



Sods law being what it is, you will have far too many in the quite periods
and not enough in the very busy periods (and that is my personal experience
of emergency maintenace works).

I have also run service businesses and what one does not do is to set
the customer's expectation at one level and deliver on another,
contract or no contract. BG are guilty of doing exactly that with
their advertising and are trading on past glories.

The real problem is that they don't have their service products
properly worked out. THey should have different levels of service
with different response and time to fix commitments at different price
points.

If I really thought that BG could provide a good service along these
lines of guaranteed response then I might be willing to pay a good
premium for it. However they don't and I don't want to pay a
relatively high price for a service that might happen in two days time
or next week.


although BG is trying to remedy this as far as the can by using
their 'own brand' or replacement parts where possible.

Which of course provide more margin.

At the end of the day lets face the fact that BG is a private company and
they have to make a profit and it makes no difference to the quality of the
repair.

Unfortunately it does. They buy the cheapest and crappiest pumps and
valves as one example. It's a false economy because they end up
having to make more return calls.


--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:49:36 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Dave wrote:
Brian G wrote:

With regards to 'priority', *most* houses have alternative heating
in them, either a separate gas or electric fire or coal fires that
can be used in emergencies - so it is rare that a house is left
entirely without heating -

This house, built circa 1977 has no chimney, no immersion heater,
electric fire, portable gas fire, or any other way of heating water,
or ourselves.

I have invested in a small generator, so as to power up the gas
central heating and the TV to keep SWTSMBO happy if the electric
goes down.

Otherwise boil a kettle!

For a bath? How big would the kettle be?


Hello Dave,

"For a bath? How big would the kettle be?" That's simple, it is not
essential to bathe unless there are specific medical reasons to do
so, and then once that is known, your repair becomes the 'priority'
over all others - so the others must wait unfortunately!

Hard but true in the event of 'having to prioritise'.

That should set the ball rolling somewhat, but it's a fact.


There shouldn't be prioritisation. At the very worst, it should be
first come, first served, but in reality there should be adequate
staffing to be able to attend either the day after the fault is
reported or the day after that.



Hello Andy,

It's not always possible to have sufficient staff for that and then
'prioritisation' is the only way.

Back in 1985 if a remember rightly, during one of the coldest winters I've
ever known, the local authority that I was working for had some 20 -25
plumbers and apprentices and around 120 staff in total. During a one week
period when the thaw set in after a fairly long freeze, we had something
like 2500 burst pipes (in many houses of there were multiple leaks, the
record I believe was something like 20 ) and it was impossible for the
plumbers to attend them all (we were working 24 hour days then) and as a
consequence, we had to use all trades just to get to the properties and turn
the water, and in many cases, the electricity off and leave the tenants
without water etc for a number of days along with houses in various states
of flooding.

Believe it or not, it was only after the army had offered to lend us some of
their plumbers and electricians after that week, that we were able to get
things quickly back under control - and even then, some of the houses didn't
get fully repaired until a month or so later.

In cases like that, prioritisation was all that we could do, and even then,
that wasn't enough for some of our worst tempered tenants - and these
usually were the ones with only relatively minor leaks that could be safely
left with buckets under them - and sod the tenants who had every room
flooded, complete with dropped ceilings.

Brian G

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:54:09 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:15:32 -0000, "Brian G"
wrote:

Rod wrote:


More than 3.4 million people have such policies promising "expert
boiler care", but thousands have endured long waits in the cold
for engineers who often fail to arrive or don't have the correct
parts.

Even with a 'full complement' of engineers, some people will have
to wait for the engineer to call. It is also unreasonable to
expect any company to carry every spare part for every type of
boiler that is fitted in houses -

They should check into that before accepting a contract.

It's impractical to have an engineer 'hanging on a coat peg' just
waiting for a call.

Yes it is, and you don't need to do it.

BG has a large enough national business that it should be perfectly
possible for them to move staff around if need be.

Secondly, they should have subcontract arrangements with local firms
to fill any shortfall.



Sods law being what it is, you will have far too many in the quite
periods and not enough in the very busy periods (and that is my
personal experience of emergency maintenace works).

I have also run service businesses and what one does not do is to set
the customer's expectation at one level and deliver on another,
contract or no contract. BG are guilty of doing exactly that with
their advertising and are trading on past glories.

The real problem is that they don't have their service products
properly worked out. THey should have different levels of service
with different response and time to fix commitments at different price
points.

If I really thought that BG could provide a good service along these
lines of guaranteed response then I might be willing to pay a good
premium for it. However they don't and I don't want to pay a
relatively high price for a service that might happen in two days time
or next week.


although BG is trying to remedy this as far as the can by using
their 'own brand' or replacement parts where possible.

Which of course provide more margin.

At the end of the day lets face the fact that BG is a private
company and they have to make a profit and it makes no difference to
the quality of the repair.

Unfortunately it does. They buy the cheapest and crappiest pumps and
valves as one example. It's a false economy because they end up
having to make more return calls.

Andy,

In my experience that is NOT the case, but I suppose there has to be
exceptions wherever you go.

With regards to waiting - I have NEVER had to wait more than a day for the
initial visit and often they have called on the day that I made the call -
my record is making the call at around 8.00am and the engineer banging on my
front door at 12.30pm 'demanding a cuppa first'. :-)

But I tell the call centre what the symptoms of the fault are and whether it
is an emergency (to me) requiring urgent attention, or it can be left until
an engineer can fit it in.

I must admit though that over the years (as part of my job), I have built up
a fairly good working relationship with most of the gas engineers in my area
and in fact, I'm on first name terms with several of them as they have
called so many times in the past - not so often now since my old Potterton
Neataheat boiler was changed a few years ago - then they were calling almost
twice a month in the depths of winter to repair it.

With regards to the quality of the materials they use, it is very, very
rare for them to have to return because a new part has failed - my last pump
lasted over ten years and that was only changed as part of a powerflush and
airing cupboard re-pipe that I had done (powerflush paid for, airing
cupboard re-pipe free).


Brian G

"Mary Fisher" typed


The vast majority of people live out their entire lives having given
money to insurance companies. The few who make money from the companies
are either very unlucky or make it their business to make a profit. The
insurance companies take a dim view of this activity.

That's a very interesting reply.

I wonder what others think?

I insure as little as I can.

My building is insured (as are the contents but that's probably an
apathy thing!)

I certainly don't have BG insurance or whatever the waterworks or
electricity peddlars are flogging.

I use a plumber who was recommended by a local tradesman, who has since
become CORGI registered.

I needed a new boiler 5 years ago, which he fitted (not cheap but
reasonable IMO)

It had no attention at all until it started cutting out a few weeks ago.

I called my trusted CORGI who came round fairly promptly, checked the
boiler and heating, found nothing untoward and charged £40.

I could have paid BG £lots in the past few years...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.